UNFAIRLY TREAT BY PIP — Scope | Disability forum
New to the community? Remember to read our community guidelines and our community house rules.
Concerned about another member's safety or wellbeing? Find out how to let us know.

UNFAIRLY TREAT BY PIP

justg72
justg72 Member Posts: 173 Pioneering
Hi All
I am just wondering if theres anywhere else, where people can complain on how they have been treat by PIP! There are so many stories on the scope site and other disability sites about the unfair treatment of PIP. Theres so many complaints regarding PIP and I just wondered if you could log a complaint elsewhere. I found a website where you could log your story about PIP and this was brought up in Parliament, this is no longer in use. Or is there a petition in which you could add your name? The PIP assessment is letting too many people down and I think people are getting discriminated against especially people with epilepsy and mental health conditions. Any information would be greatly received.
Thankyou

Comments

  • sandyp196
    sandyp196 Member Posts: 140 Pioneering
    I would be interested to know too.
  • elbest
    elbest Member Posts: 37 Connected
    Me too it is totally a system not fit for the people & totally unfair.
  • affii1993
    affii1993 Member Posts: 103 Courageous
    I wanted to petition but I My writing and sentencing skill not great am hoping to get help to start something and ur right this happening a lot and all most to 70% off people i am an victim too currently applied for Tribunal they dwp r paying bonus to assosor to lie about our condition 
  • mandora
    mandora Member Posts: 2 Listener
    hia I won my court appeal but by god they put you through the ringer you feel like a real criminal its so stressful and upsetting and even after all that stress I will still have to go for assessments after 2 years why on earth this happens I don't know it makes your blood boil they want to wear you down so you just give up I think don't give up folks your ill you need the money love mandora x
  • CockneyRebel
    CockneyRebel Member Posts: 5,217 Disability Gamechanger
    On line forums give a very bad indication of what is really happening.

    The vast majority of claims are successful and therefore never come to a forum like this. In general we only see the claims that have been unsuccessful for a variety of reasons. Some of the reasons why a claim is not allowed are that the most important evidence ie. the PIP 2 form is misunderstood and /or poorly completed. Many claimants fail to realise that mediical conditions and diagnosis are not the main criteria for an award, PIP, is an assessment of functionality, medical evidence is of secondary importance.

    When a claim is unsuccessful it is easy to blame the assessor and accuse them of lying and / or misrepresentation. An assessor is not a secretary and not there to record everything you say as if it were written in stone and completely accurate. Many claimants play down their difficulties either out of embarrasment or familiarity with coping with a long term condition, part or the role of an assessor is pick up on this and provide an accurate picture, some claimants even receive a higher award than they expect due to the HCP..

     

    Be all you can be, make  every day count. Namaste
  • clarkjohnson
    clarkjohnson Member Posts: 210 Pioneering
    What you mean so all the good people who say that they've been lied to are making it up then 
  • affii1993
    affii1993 Member Posts: 103 Courageous
    @CockneyRebel what are u talking about??
  • wildlife
    wildlife Member Posts: 1,308 Pioneering
    edited February 2019
    @ilovecats I believe what you say but it begs the question WHY? Why did my assessor feel it necessary to completely make up something I didn't do to convince the DM I didn't have any problem using my hands. Is it simply because they have to give reasons and if there aren't any they're forced to make them up. Please do not say this doesn't happen.   
    @CockneyRebel What you say maybe so but I hope you're not defending the assessors who decide to completely make something up like mine did or write something they know isn't true like mine did. I am very intelligent and I know the difference between any failing on my part and the failings in the system.  
  • wildlife
    wildlife Member Posts: 1,308 Pioneering
    edited February 2019
    @ilovecats,  I had a small bottle of water which my husband opened in the waiting room. During the assessment I briefly put it between my legs to do a 2 armed exercise. That's all I did. My assessor wrote in the observations section "She was passed a bottle of water by her husband and was seen to peel off the plastic label using her right and left hand whilst holding it between her legs." I wonder where she got that information from? I'd be interested  to know how lies have been proven apart from when AP are sued as in the case on the BBC news today. I've spent the last 2 years going through the complaints procedure and haven't managed to get anyone to accept this never happened. She was referring to the plastic label that is inaccessible when the bottle is held as she described and didn't she know it's the top you open to get at the water not the label round the middle !!! 
  • clarkjohnson
    clarkjohnson Member Posts: 210 Pioneering
    Exactly wildlife liars arnt worth the ground they stand on full stop 
  • wildlife
    wildlife Member Posts: 1,308 Pioneering
    @ilovecats I will read your long post tomorrow but just to say I agree that forums like this are where you hear about the bad experiences and not the good but the people here who know, as i do, that their assessor was dishonest do not want to read posts that simply defend all assessors without mentioning the bad ones. It results in people getting agrivated and discussions being shut down. I appreciate you accepting that there are blatant lies told and from the amount of people who report this it isn't the odd one or two. 
  • poppy123456
    poppy123456 Member Posts: 23,913 Disability Gamechanger
    Not all assessors are liars and that's a fact. I've never had a bad report for any assessment i've been to. My daughter had her first ever PIP assessment in 2017 and had a brilliant report. I'm currently going through a review for her PIP claim and she's had a paper based assessment. I've not had the report yet to see any recommendations but i'm hopeful based on the evidence i sent and the information i gave that the report i'll receive will be truthful and her current award level will continue.

    We only ever hear the bad stories and that's a fact. In all honesty, would you come onto an internet forum to tell others your story if you had an award you're happy with? I know i definitely wouldn't.

    People think they can score points in certain descriptors, or they think they can score points because they need assistance... what they do realise is that you won't score points for needing assistance if you can reasonably use an aid. Yet they will still argue that they need assistance.

    They think that they'll score points because they've never cooked in their life. You won't score points because you chose not to cook.

    It doesn't matter what diagnosis you have or how many you have, it won't help a PIP claim. It really does help to have some understanding on what the PIP descriptors mean and there's a lot of people out there that don't.
  • clarkjohnson
    clarkjohnson Member Posts: 210 Pioneering
    Yes I see another poor mother lost her daughter bbc 1 tonight tell that lady about the bigger picture good night 
  • poppy123456
    poppy123456 Member Posts: 23,913 Disability Gamechanger
    ilovecats said:

    Every time you post something like this it makes my heart sing a little bit.
    Thank you for always being sensible and objective.
    (You'd make a great PIP assessor :P )
    Thanks for those kind words. It really does help to have some understanding of what it's all about. It's taken a lot of research for me to completely understand the descriptors and exactly what they mean.

    I've learnt a lot from being here too from a certain person @mikehughescq whom i have a lot to thank for, for all that fantastic advice he's given here. It's thanks to this great guy and his advice about filling out a PIP form that got my daughter her paper based assessment. I most likely wouldn't have filled out her form they way i did if it wasn't for his advice, so i'm extremely grateful to you mike for your advice!!

    As for the PIP assessor, i think i'll pass on that one :D
  • freckles
    freckles Member Posts: 258 Pioneering
    Atos, capita, maximus are all money making greedy companies they should have independent doctors asseseing people not an X paramedic or nurse these companies are making vast amounts of money paid for by the goverment like i said before if you have letters off your consultant and G.P. or phychatrist clearing stating that you have a disability or illness then this should be believed and not discredated by the DWP!!!!!!!! Are the DWP saying all of the above are liars if so then we don,t need consultants, doctors,phychatrist any more because there word counts for nothing in the assessors or the DWP eyes
  • braca
    braca Posts: 86 Member
    I totally agree with your point freckles they are all in it for the profit, At my assessment I was being asked how many minutes I could walk before stopping and told her as I am in pain as soon as I get up to walk and from front door to my car is no more than 18 metres and stop at my garden gate but could not give her time  but did mention I walk slower now due to pain and fatigue  she seemed to be getting annoyed at my answer, and with me getting a bit anxious with her pushy questioning it got a bit heated, my wife who was sitting next to me heard her saying I have got to get this report done correctly for the DWP her voice in a panic ( maybe pressure from her employer at IAS regards audits ? ) Anyway on PA4 report she has said I refused to answer numerous questions about mobility activities but gave me points  ( strange ) So in my opinion assessor is not interested in any consultant Dr reports and more concerned about keeping themselves right. As I mentioned in A previous post there was blatant error in my report regards descriptor choice which someone commented as a slip of the pen, and if I hear this comment again about its not the diagnosis and how it affects you that matters I will pull every strand of what is left of my hair out...Surely it is the diagnosis from consultant Dr in my case Nerve pain and enlarged polycystic kidneys back/flank pain side effects from medication and other health issues that effects my ability to carry out Daily living and Mobility activities. Could someone help me with PIP appeal percentage figures please, if 100 people attend appeal court and 75 of those win appeal what is percentage ?.:'( 
  • poppy123456
    poppy123456 Member Posts: 23,913 Disability Gamechanger
    71% of those that appear in person with representation win. 50% of those that appear in person without representation have a decision in their favour. Dropping drastically to 8% for paper based hearings.
  • wildlife
    wildlife Member Posts: 1,308 Pioneering
    @ilovecats          Mmmm your description of how an assessor works is very enlightening and I know you write from their perspective. But from the claimants point of view what of empathy, human dignity, rights of the individual to be treated with respect. All these are contravened by the very act of an assessor scrutinizing a person's every move. It is well known that they do this which puts people on edge even before they get into the room. The obs you mentioned are easy to make up or change from what they really notice about the "client". "Didn't look tired" "Didn't appear stressed or agitated" "Unkempt", "Scruffily dressed" even "Well dressed" . All these statements are disgusting in my opinion and a violation of a person's human rights. Assessors cannot possibly know how people are feeling, how much sleep they've had the night before or why they are well dressed. Could be a loving husband chose the clothes and helped his wife to dress wishing to make a good impression. Then what of the scruffily dressed. A comment of this nature is even worse. Think of the reaction of someone who already has no self worth reading this on their report. "She was seen to pick up her bag from the floor" or bend to it can never be disproved without cameras being used in assessment rooms. Assessors know they will get away with it. Not only that but their employer and all the other agencies benefit claimants can turn to back them up and believe what they wrote as gospel over and above the word of the claimant. I know because this has happened to me. My assessor changed all observations from the truth. She changed every single MSO (MSE) result from what I actually did. When she needed 3 reasons to disagree with what I said she made them up. She used "no specialist input" for mental health 9 times when she had evidence going back 47 years and 6 IAPT reports of recent appointments handed to her on the day. 
         I can appreciate people's good experiences and good luck to them but as I have written in a letter to ATOS after my 2 year campaign to have my complaint accepted has come to nothing: Describing the criteria for becoming an assessor and how they SHOULD carry out assessments means nothing to a claimant who has had a bad experience.   
        On forums like this they need advice about how they can get justice and change the system to a fair and honest one where people are treated properly. The accusation they're speaking out because they want more money may be true in some cases but the majority of disabled people just want a fair assessment. When they see lies written about themselves they need advice on a way to rectify this and force the assessor to face up to the harm they have caused that person. 
       You say there will always be rogue assessors. There should not be any!!! They are all qualified medical practitioners who have a code of conduct and that includes when they're working as assessors. In fact any job or activity they are involved in of a medical nature. My assessor said she was a Paramedic. God help the poor patient she was attending during her 2 years experience when she can't even write proper English and is prepared to lie as she did.  
  • clarkjohnson
    clarkjohnson Member Posts: 210 Pioneering
    Great words wildlife no lies there my friend some people need to wake up instead of defending the injustice it's hardly a minority 
  • wildlife
    wildlife Member Posts: 1,308 Pioneering
    The observations are just that. The assessor's opinion on the day. Even if they're honestly motivated where else in life would someone be able to make personal comments about another human being without the recipient having any come back. PIP rules state that you only have to have a problem for 50% of the year so obs. on one day are not worth the paper they're written on. Especially when they are over riding other more qualified medical professionals who have years of study in a condition and it's effects and/or see the person regularly. This part of the the PA4 should be done away with. It has no place in the 21st Century.   
  • clarkjohnson
    clarkjohnson Member Posts: 210 Pioneering
    Totally agree with you I've lost count of people saying they are frightened and upset and it's making there health conditions worse how can that be right when they are crying out for help . 

Brightness

Do you need advice on your energy costs?


Scope’s Disability Energy Support service is open to any disabled household in England or Wales in which one or more disabled people live. You can get free advice from an expert adviser on managing energy debt, switching tariffs, contacting your supplier and more. Find out more information by visiting our
Disability Energy Support webpage.

Fancy a chat in our virtual coffee lounge?

Put the kettle on and have a chat in our coffee lounge with other members. We talk about hobbies, games and anything else you can think of!

Cerebral Palsy (CP) Online Cafe

Here's a new opportunity for people with CP or a similar disability (aged 20+) to get together and chat. The sessions are in partnership with CP Sport so you can find out more and meet people from both organisations.

Are you struggling?

Read our 'Coping with stress, low mood and isolation' support thread for a run-down of ideas on how to banish those blues and feel happier.

What do you think about the community?

Complete our feedback form and tell us how we can make the community a better space for you.

Information about COVID-19

If you have questions about the virus, please read our information and support which includes guidance on benefits, getting food and essentials and Cerebral Palsy.

Back to school this September?

Read tips on how to settle back in and handle any worries you or your children might be having this new term.