Condition worsened but I lost PIP

lisamp6

Just wondering if anyone can offer any advice. I claimed PIP for approximately 18months and my health deteriorated. On a review form I explained how my health had worsened. I was sent for another assessment and the assessor said I was entitled to any payment at all. So my payments were stopped. I appealed and sent a letter from my GP but lost the appeal. I, again, appealed and it was sent to court, to appeal there. I sent my appeal to them and received a letter from them explaining they were looking in to it on 11th April. I have not heard from them since. I heard from PIP in the form of around 120 page evidence to why they refused me. I rang court today and they said it could be up to 37 weeks wait for a date in court. Is this right? Also will they back date my PIP to February when they stopped it? Thank you for your help, I’m at my whits end.

JennysDad

Hello @lisamp6 and a warm welcome to the community. I am glad you've found us, but am very sorry to hear about your difficulties.
Not a benefits advisor, I can't directly answer your question, but we have some excellent people here who will be in touch with you as soon as possible.
I'm going to forward your post to our specialist team and they should be in touch with you soon.
You're not alone, now, Lisa (?) and you matter.
Warmest best wishes,
Richard
@JennysDad

mikehughescq

A worsening of your condition is not automatic grounds for review. It’s not about whether the condition gets worse but whether you can do less of the points scoring activities. You should always get advice before notifying a worsening or improvement.

If an award is made then arrears will be paid.

Matilda

@lisamp6

There are long waits for appeal hearings.

If you win your appeal your money will be backdated to when it stopped.

markyboy

The DWP state if your condition changes you must inform them this is not about them wanting to give you extra money it's about them getting the opportunity to reassess you ,stop your payments and reduce your award so that you go to appeal ending up with no payment for 9 months.
If you are in receipt of PIP and your condition gets worse wait until the next review of your award to put your case forward

Yadnad

markyboy said:

The DWP state if your condition changes you must inform them..........If you are in receipt of PIP and your condition gets worse wait until the next review of your award to put your case forward

As you have pointed out, one of the conditions of being awarded PIP is that you are required to notify the DWP of any changes which may affect your abilities and thus, the descriptors being claimed..

To suggest that you ignore that instruction is plainly wrong and could land you in serious trouble if the DWP become aware of the changes. This can be via information passed to them by a concerned neighbour!

poppy123456

Yadnad said:

As you have pointed out, one of the conditions of being awarded PIP is that you are required to notify the DWP of any changes which may affect your abilities and thus, the descriptors being claimed..

To suggest that you ignore that instruction is plainly wrong and could land you in serious trouble if the DWP become aware of the changes. This can be via information passed to them by a concerned neighbour!

I totally disagree with you here. The statement "you must report all changes" is not really aimed at those who's condition has got worse! It's aimed more at those who condition has improved. If a persons condition has improved then it's possible they may no longer be entitled to the money they're claiming.

Infact what you're saying is that if someone was claiming Enhanced rate for both PIP and their condition got worse that they should report this to DWP? ummm not! Why would someone risk what they already have and report a worsening of condition? It's exactly the same for someone that has a lower award.

I didn't report my worsening condition when i had my last review for PIP. After my assessment i had a call from the DM and the only question i was asked was "when did your mobility get worse??" I replied approx 9/10 months ago. He thanked me and said i'd have a decision in the post within the week. The following day i rang to see if the decision had been made, it had.....i was awarded Standard daily living and enhanced mobility..... backdated 5 weeks.

If i was supposed to have reported the my condition had got worse then i'm certain that either the DM would have asked why i didn't report them, or i would have had a letter from DWP asking why....that never ever happened.

My advice....think twice before reporting a worsening of conditon, if you so, you risk losing everything you have.

markyboy

Well said good advice

Yadnad

poppy123456 said:

I totally disagree with you here. The statement "you must report all changes" is not really aimed at those who's condition has got worse! It's aimed more at those who condition has improved. If a persons condition has improved then it's possible they may no longer be entitled to the money they're claiming.

Infact what you're saying is that if someone was claiming Enhanced rate for both PIP and their condition got worse that they should report this to DWP? ummm not! Why would someone risk what they already have and report a worsening of condition? It's exactly the same for someone that has a lower award.

I didn't report my worsening condition when i had my last review for PIP. After my assessment i had a call from the DM and the only question i was asked was "when did your mobility get worse??" I replied approx 9/10 months ago. He thanked me and said i'd have a decision in the post within the week. The following day i rang to see if the decision had been made, it had.....i was awarded Standard daily living and enhanced mobility..... backdated 5 weeks.

If i was supposed to have reported the my condition had got worse then i'm certain that either the DM would have asked why i didn't report them, or i would have had a letter from DWP asking why....that never ever happened.

My advice....think twice before reporting a worsening of conditon, if you so, you risk losing everything you have.

I disagree also. Part of the declaration you have signed does not say to ignore any changes that may result in a decrease in your abilities and only report when there has been an improvement in them.

I'm sticking to the 'letter of the law' so to speak. You are required to report all changes appertaining to the descriptors.

Does it matter if you are already on the enhanced rate? Surely it's not for the claimant to pick and choose whether they want to or not notify any changes.

In your case by delaying in notifying them of the deterioration in mobility you lost 9/10 months of the increase from Standard to Enhanced.

mikehughescq

Some further clarity is required. There is no requirement to declare all changes of circumstance. There is only a requirement to declare those which a reasonable person might consider could impact entitlement one way or another. Before anyone spoils for an argument on that it’s been well considered over many years and the case law is clear. 

You do not need to report a deterioration or improvement in your health if it’s clear there would be no impact on your entitlement. Neither change is material unless there would be a likely impact.

So, for example, if your health improved so that most people would reasonably conclude that you’d lose 2 points on daily living BUT... you would retain the same rate... then there’s no need to report.

On the other hand if the loss of 2 points was clear cut but it would be arguable you could lose another 2 and that would drop or lose you daily living... then definitely an obligation to report. 

Saying that you have no idea how it would impact is no excuse. Do people accept money from strangers without knowing what it’s made up of or why? If in doubt then you declare because, amongst other things, there is a specific offence of failing to declare in a timely manner. In reality you’d have to be fairly stupid to declare without getting advice from somewhere as to the necessity and the risk.

Yadnad

mikehughescq said:

Some further clarity is required. There is no requirement to declare all changes of circumstance. There is only a requirement to declare those which a reasonable person might consider could impact entitlement one way or another. Before anyone spoils for an argument on that it’s been well considered over many years and the case law is clear. 

You do not need to report a deterioration or improvement in your health if it’s clear there would be no impact on your entitlement. Neither change is material unless there would be a likely impact.

So, for example, if your health improved so that most people would reasonably conclude that you’d lose 2 points on daily living BUT... you would retain the same rate... then there’s no need to report.

On the other hand if the loss of 2 points was clear cut but it would be arguable you could lose another 2 and that would drop or lose you daily living... then definitely an obligation to report. 

Saying that you have no idea how it would impact is no excuse. Do people accept money from strangers without knowing what it’s made up of or why? If in doubt then you declare because, amongst other things, there is a specific offence of failing to declare in a timely manner. In reality you’d have to be fairly stupid to declare without getting advice from somewhere as to the necessity and the risk.

Thanks Mike, clarity has been given which is greatly appreciated

lisamp6

Thank you for all your advice! My mobility and health have deteriorated and they contacted me for a review. I didn’t contact them. Sorry if I didn’t make that clear. 😊

littleruthie123

Hi lisa good luck with your appeal .I no it seems like a long wait .get as much evidence towards your questions and how it's effecting you with all the different descriptors. Benedit advisers and cab can be good for support .rather than people's own opinions as there not qualified .and yes should get back dated good luck x

Government_needs_reform

Also to add here I'm on PIP enhanced both ongoing and they know my disability's and function will now not improve, only deterioration forward for me now which it has. So in my case I don't and won't need to report any changes in my deterioration as I'm on the highest PIP can go if and when I had to have a review after the end date then I would adjust and tell them accordingly at point of review.

The only time I would now contact them if my function improved which I know and they know it won't.

poppy123456

Yadnad said:

poppy123456 said:

I totally disagree with you here. The statement "you must report all changes" is not really aimed at those who's condition has got worse! It's aimed more at those who condition has improved. If a persons condition has improved then it's possible they may no longer be entitled to the money they're claiming.

Infact what you're saying is that if someone was claiming Enhanced rate for both PIP and their condition got worse that they should report this to DWP? ummm not! Why would someone risk what they already have and report a worsening of condition? It's exactly the same for someone that has a lower award.

I didn't report my worsening condition when i had my last review for PIP. After my assessment i had a call from the DM and the only question i was asked was "when did your mobility get worse??" I replied approx 9/10 months ago. He thanked me and said i'd have a decision in the post within the week. The following day i rang to see if the decision had been made, it had.....i was awarded Standard daily living and enhanced mobility..... backdated 5 weeks.

If i was supposed to have reported the my condition had got worse then i'm certain that either the DM would have asked why i didn't report them, or i would have had a letter from DWP asking why....that never ever happened.

My advice....think twice before reporting a worsening of conditon, if you so, you risk losing everything you have.

I disagree also. Part of the declaration you have signed does not say to ignore any changes that may result in a decrease in your abilities and only report when there has been an improvement in them.

I'm sticking to the 'letter of the law' so to speak. You are required to report all changes appertaining to the descriptors.

Does it matter if you are already on the enhanced rate? Surely it's not for the claimant to pick and choose whether they want to or not notify any changes.

In your case by delaying in notifying them of the deterioration in mobility you lost 9/10 months of the increase from Standard to Enhanced.

If you say so Danday, or would that be andy or maybe even flo?

Matilda

Yes, report deterioration if you are not on the highest rates and have a fixed term award.  If you are on highest rates ongoing I do not think DWP would want to hear about deterioration as there is no way your award could improve.

mikehughescq

@matilda I fully appreciate you’ve hit the ignore button when it comes to my post but I’m hoping someone is going to tell you just how poor that’s making your advice look in the context of previous posts.

Yadnad

mikehughescq said:

@matilda I fully appreciate you’ve hit the ignore button when it comes to my post but I’m hoping someone is going to tell you just how poor that’s making your advice look in the context of previous posts.

Exactly, sometimes it seems that people want to run with the foxes as well as the hounds. 

lisamp6

Can I also ask what happens to your blue badge if you’re on suspended pip? 

peterpete

My advice to you is apply for jsa asap don't delay then get a short term benefit advance also claim a budget loan ask them to reduce your repayments. Do not appeal again your wasting your time re apply for pip and hope you get a real good assessor I been there done it I feel your pain

peterpete

Pip seems more like a lottery I won the first time lost the second they always say 3Rd time lucky let's see

mikehughescq

Reapplying for PIP is poor advice as it immediately makes the previous claim a closed claim with an end date of the day before your new claim so unless you also continue to challenge the previous claim you are potentially throwing away hundreds or thousands in arrears were you to have won that appeal.

You have no guarantee of success on a subsequent claim and unless you do something very different why would you expect a different outcome? Multiple claims also do not play well with DWP. You will find few, if any, posts anywhere on the internet claiming “My sixth PIP claim succeeded”!

peterpete

Do not give up

peterpete

As someone who is reapplying for pip and got a medical next week I will secretly record it to show my local mp 

mikehughescq

a) potentially breaking the law.
b) won’t tell your MP anything they don’t already know or is not already in the public domain.
c) won’t assist your claim unless you have it independently transcribed.
d) successful discrediting the HCP will not get you PIP. It will devalue the report but it’s meaningles unless your own evidence has strength.

michelleth64

I had my assessment and was told end of August with Dm since then I've been diagnosed with osteoarthritis and need a new knee do I inform them as I've heard nothing back yet

markyboy

No wait for your award to come taking around 8 weeks at the moment
If you inform them they will more than likely re assess you and if you have got a good award you will lose it

mikehughescq

A new diagnosis is not relevant.

sunny123

Hi I'm currently on low rate pip and my symptoms got worse on daily basis from the time I claimed it says you must report any changes if your health day to day changes shall I report change if u don't it will make it worse

poppy123456

Yes it does say this but first you need to look at the descriptors to see where you can score those extra points for a higher award. A worsening of condition doesn't mean you'll be awarded Enhanced rate for either. There's also no low rate PIP, it's Standard or Enhanced.

You really need expert face to face advice because no one on an internet forum can tell you if there's any risks to your current award.

Reporting a change of circumstances mean more forms and another face to face assessment.