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PIP not renewing until 2020 but things have gotten worse. Should I apply again?

diamonds45diamonds45 Member Posts: 2 Listener
edited June 2018 in PIP, DLA and AA
Hi I ain't been on here before but I am looking for some advise. I'm on pip and get standard rate care and low mobility. And it's not renewed till 2020. But a lot has changed and things r worse. Am i allowed to reapply as I have been told off several people I should apply again 

Replies

  • markyboymarkyboy Member Posts: 374 Pioneering
    you can but you will be reassessed and could get less in the end also as soon as a new claim starts they will stop your money until after your new award is finalised 
    You will get a review in 2019 anyway 
    A bird in hand is worth more than two in a bush as they say 
  • littleruthie123littleruthie123 Member Posts: 490 Pioneering
    Hi im a fair world I would say yes. I've reviewed mine though for same reason it's turning intoo a hellish event .personally I wouldent 
  • aaronw3440aaronw3440 Member Posts: 54 Connected
    edited June 2018
    You need to report the change as it's got worse dwp bind you to report whether it's got worse or better and if you don't you could face being investigated and possibly prosecuted  for fraud you'll continue getting payments until a decision has been made 
  • MatildaMatilda Member Posts: 2,616 Disability Gamechanger
    Though a condition has got worse that does not necessarily mean that how it affects you has changed significantly.

    Several people have reported a condition as having got worse and their assessor has decided that their condition has got better, not worse!

    Think carefully before you report a condition as having got worse.
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 5,380 Disability Gamechanger
    You can’t “reapply”. You already have an award. You can ask for a supersession but getting worse is not automatically grounds for that. PIP, just like DLA, are not interested in your impairment nor the seriousness of it. They are only interested in whether it impacts points scoring activities. 

    So, before you do anything, you need to know how many points you currently have and for what. Then you need to assess whether your worsening would trigger further points and, even if it would, would they be enough to move you from standard to enhanced on either component? If you haven’t done any of that or haven’t got face to face advice about the same then you should not disclose as you have no evidence of a relevant change of circumstance. It’s only relevant if it would change your points score sufficiently to change your entitlement.

    One thing which does need knocking on the head is this “risk” nonsense. It is absolutely true that benefit can go down as well as up but advising someone to not notify just because of that alleged risk is poor advice and close to nonsense. Even on the most clear cut case there is always a risk. The question is not whether there is a risk. Life is full of risk. The real issue is how high is the risk. That depends on many different factors and there’s no way that it could be discussed in enough depth on a forum to be able to answer that. I’ve seen “no risk” cases reduced to zero points before getting up to enhanced rate and “at risk” cases move from standard to enhanced. It’s a complex calculation and simplistic answers help no-one. 
  • littleruthie123littleruthie123 Member Posts: 490 Pioneering
    Dident see any one saying risk!.don't really see your point here. Apart from having a dig at the people who commented ?.of course let here's a financial risk .were dependant on that money too survive! .any if cases were handled fairly there wouldent be a worry of risk .which can be the difference too paying bills eating etc .perhaps people's unhelpful digs at others should be hit on the head!
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 5,380 Disability Gamechanger
    One post talks explicitly about the possibility of money going down. One talks of a threat of fraud prosecution. Both are talking about risks. There was no "dig". My post was an explicit; non-personal; non-abusive factual response. I didn't criticise an individual. I criticised the view. Slightly different to your response!!!

    There's a "report" button if you wish to use it. Better than public passive aggressive bickering from most people's perspective!
  • YadnadYadnad Member - under moderation Posts: 2,862 Disability Gamechanger
    edited June 2018
    Dident see any one saying risk!.don't really see your point here. Apart from having a dig at the people who commented ?.of course let here's a financial risk .were dependant on that money too survive! .any if cases were handled fairly there wouldent be a worry of risk .which can be the difference too paying bills eating etc .perhaps people's unhelpful digs at others should be hit on the head!
    I'm sorry but I think Mike has a point. Whilst the word 'risk' does not appear in the posts, the contents of those posts allude to there being a 'risk' without actually saying it..
    And at the 'risk' of saying this, I find it extremely difficult to believe that a PIP award if taken away would mean the difference between survival and non survival and is detrimental to the ability to pay bills eating etc 
    PIP is not a benefit that is added to the general household pot to pay for every day costs it is paid to help with the extra costs of a long-term health condition or disability.
    Other benefits are to cover the every day costs of living such as ESA, JSA and the State Pension etc.  
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 5,380 Disability Gamechanger
    At the risk of being endlessly controversial @yadnad I’m going to disagree with you too :)

    It may not have been the intent but in many cases PIP absolutely is the difference between being able to cope financially and a whole host of horrendous scenarios. Even more true since it became a route out of the benefit cap sadly.
  • YadnadYadnad Member - under moderation Posts: 2,862 Disability Gamechanger
     Even more true since it became a route out of the benefit cap sadly.
    I didn't know that. So for all intents and purposes it is in everybody's interest to seek or attempt to claim PIP whether it is for a real or perceived reason where the benefit cap applies on the basis of nothing ventured, nothing gained.  

    And there is me naïve once again. 
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 5,380 Disability Gamechanger
    I’ve not come across a case where it was claimed without their being a need but yes it’s a significant way out of the cap. However, PIP is a means of survival for more than capped cases.
  • littleruthie123littleruthie123 Member Posts: 490 Pioneering
    Yes here we go again .are these meant too be positive comments ...did I day p.I. p is spare money too put in the household pot!..I use my phone. I.pray for what it's meant for thank you .you no nothing about my personal situation.if you have nothing descent too say apart from jumping on the bandwagon as usual .the person was asking for our opinion! !!!..too many apparent ex parts on here on fortunately who think teresa professional advisers. 
  • littleruthie123littleruthie123 Member Posts: 490 Pioneering
    And yes Mike have a point .we all have different points and options. And hats all they are 
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 5,380 Disability Gamechanger
    ... too many apparent ex parts on here on fortunately who think teresa professional advisers. 
    Yes, thanks. I am a professional adviser.
  • littleruthie123littleruthie123 Member Posts: 490 Pioneering
    Good for you .such empathy and kindness 
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 5,380 Disability Gamechanger
    Good for you .such empathy and kindness 

    f I had a pound for every "Oh I felt really sorry for this woman" type comment from poor advisers.  

    Ditto every "you have to disclose" or "tell them what you're like on your worst day" comment from claimants. It will doubtless be well meaning and coming from a place of empathy and kindness but it's also wrong. Empathy and kindness do not automatically make for accurate advice. Personal experience is hugely valuable but wrong or misleading advice is not. It can lead people to make potentially life-changing and catastrophic decision as regards their income. There is plenty of benefits advice which is not and never will be a matter of opinion or a different view. It is just legally right or wrong.  

    So, I'm guilty of personal attacks but based on one paragraph you have gone for a character assassination re: empathy and kindness! In the process I get a lecture on "digs" and yet there is only one person on the thread whose "digs" need to be "hit on the head".

    Well done for wholly misinterpreting the brief discussion between @yadnad and I too. You seem to want to make accusations in public to make some sort of point about personal abuse. Hypocrisy is the word. If you have an issue with a post then report it. In my experience Scope will take it very seriously especially if there is substance to it. On the other hand, if you're just here to stir things up and game play then doubtless you'll want to carry on doing so in public rather than do something about it and bring it to an end!

  • littleruthie123littleruthie123 Member Posts: 490 Pioneering
    Move on Mike. Telling people that simplistic comments and answers should be knocked on the head .and giving poor advice is close too nonsense is rude simple as .your sound like a child with silly threats .read your own horrible comments .if you give it out ...........
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 5,380 Disability Gamechanger

    You were asked to report anything you felt breached the sites T&Cs. You chose not to and to continue in public. It is indeed "enough" so I have reported the above post. Your passive aggressive and personal responses are unacceptable.

    You have accused me of digs, threats, rudeness, horrible comments; a lack of empathy and kindness and misquoted me as saying that "simplistic comments and answers should be knocked on the head" when I explicitly commented about "risk". These comments have not been echoed by any of the posters on whose behalf you have decided to take offence. If they have reported them privately then fair enough.

    I absolutely stand by my comment that poor advice "can lead people to make potentially life-changing and catastrophic decision as regards their income". I shall not comment further other than on the topic itself. Doubtless you'll be back.

  • wilkowilko Member Posts: 2,200 Disability Gamechanger
    In your award letter it clearly states if there is a change in your srucumstances or condition you are to notify the DWP. My mobility had got worst 12months since my last PIP acessment so informed DWP filled in new claim form had f2f and my award was upgraded from standard mobility to enhanced. As I expected I could have stayed the same and not informed the DWP as I had my own mobility scooters and own car but I am better off but wish I was self mobile and able to work. Mike keep posting some people want something for nothing.
  • littleruthie123littleruthie123 Member Posts: 490 Pioneering
    Sorry who wants something for nothing?
  • Pippa_ScopePippa_Scope Member Posts: 5,856 Disability Gamechanger

    Morning everyone. Please remember that we want the community to be a safe and supportive place for all. Please make sure your messages respect other users’ views and suggestions, even if you don’t agree with them.

    Take care to present your views tactfully and remember that humour may be misinterpreted. 

  • paul67paul67 Member Posts: 10 Listener
    Afternoon 
    I was awarded  standard for both parts of pip claim, and appealed  with 3 tribunals  and still didn't get increase until I informed  them my condition  was worsening, after another f2f got full pip for living and mobility, got a good f2f with someone  that did report with great detail and took time to listen , my experience  is to follow rules of system inform them of your  changes and while they were looking at change in circumstances  and condition was still paid standard rate.

    Good luck 
  • wildlifewildlife Member Posts: 1,316 Pioneering
    @diamonds45
                            Please be aware that if your present award was given to you until 2020 for example mine was from 2017 for 3 years also up to 2020, they do the reviews a year early in 2019 which isn't too far away. 
  • kasskass Member Posts: 65 Connected
    Hi all
    I got pip in 2016 till may this year I have no letters as yet for review and it only a few months away be for my pip runs out should I ring them or leave it abit longer 

    Thank you


  • paul67paul67 Member Posts: 10 Listener
    Me personally  would  contact them but that's me very impatient, my last f2f  was a cancellation  2 days after I contacted  them .it's what is best for you and  your situation.
  • Miss_AnnmarieMiss_Annmarie Member Posts: 20 Courageous
    Hi Everyone, i am new here, stumbling upon this thread whilst looking for information on requesting an early review, may i just point out before i ask my question, PIP is to some people a lifeline, The new universal credit system is slow and cumbersome, and when you are awarded you get a maximum of £317.82 a month excluding your rent unless you are deemed fit not to work, then i be-leave you get extra, this is to pay for everything you need to run a home, so people come to rely on the extra pip money.

    so here is my question, after reading this i am now extremely worried about asking for a review, as my condition has got much worse over the last 12 months, and i struggle to get around, currently i only get the basic care component, and was hoping to try and get the mobility component, my worry is that my money will be stopped until this decision has been made, as stated in the beginning of the thread, is this actually the case?
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    Hi Everyone, i am new here, stumbling upon this thread whilst looking for information on requesting an early review, may i just point out before i ask my question, PIP is to some people a lifeline, The new universal credit system is slow and cumbersome, and when you are awarded you get a maximum of £317.82 a month excluding your rent unless you are deemed fit not to work, then i be-leave you get extra, this is to pay for everything you need to run a home, so people come to rely on the extra pip money.

    so here is my question, after reading this i am now extremely worried about asking for a review, as my condition has got much worse over the last 12 months, and i struggle to get around, currently i only get the basic care component, and was hoping to try and get the mobility component, my worry is that my money will be stopped until this decision has been made, as stated in the beginning of the thread, is this actually the case?
    For UC there's other elements paid but it will depend on circumstances what you receive. People with dependent children for example, will receive the child element and if the child is disabled they will receive extra for that. It's just the 2 elements you mentioned but as advised, it does depend on circumstances.

    For your PIP then if you report a worsening of condition then your PIP will continue until a decision's been made on the changes.

    I will advice you to get face to face expert advice before reporting those changes. Lots of people have done exactly this and gone on to lose everything they already have. It's always a risk to report a worsening condition.

    If you do report changes then you'll need evidence to support your claim and expect another face to face assessment as most people have them.
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • MatildaMatilda Member Posts: 2,616 Disability Gamechanger
    Your current award continues until a decision is made after the review.  The review might well mean you have to have a f2f.

    Disability Rights UK site has a good guide to all aspects of PIP.

    Criteria for mobility component:

    Before you have to stop and rest for a few minutes because of pain or stiffness or fatigue, and outdoors using pavements and kerbs...

    Up to 20m aided = 12 points (enhanced)

    20m - 50m aided = 10 points (standard)

    20m - 50m unaided = 8 points (standard)
  • madquasimodomadquasimodo Member Posts: 130 Courageous
    I am in the same boat and have held off reporting for now, I had a injury to both arms and as a result have Ulnar nerve compression, the effect of this is hard to cope with, I have been offered an operation with around 60% chance of success, as I act as carer for my partner I fear if the operation was not successful I would not be able to help her, I have been going for physio but this has not helped, my treatment is still ongoing so I cant say exactly what level of restriction I will eventually have.

    I know if I report it now they will give me a PIP2 F2F and it may well go badly, having had a few of these I know its down to the first few seconds, if the assessor takes issue with you for whatever reason that's it, I have checked and I "may" get more points.
    The big but is when filling in PIP2 online check lists honestly, my partner gets 60 points, I get 54 points which would mean full benefit for PIP and mobility, but when it goes to be checked by DWP they just say "We think you can" and the points just vanish.   
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    For the points scoring with the descriptors a lot of people don't understand what the descriptors mean and very often score their self more than what's possible to score. This is the downfall when using the PIP self test online. This link will give you more understanding of what the descriptors mean.


    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • madquasimodomadquasimodo Member Posts: 130 Courageous
    After having a few F2F and spending a lot of time at the CAB (who were useless more of that later) checking Turn2Us and all the online help I think I have some idea, I give you 2 examples.

    1 SWMBO had a microvascular decompression for a hemi facial spasm, sadly it went wrong, she now has 100 Vestibular failure on the right and partial on the left, meaning her balance is gone, walks to left, over compensates turns to right, brain say left, walking like someone who is drunk as a skunk, cant stand without aid cant twist left or right without severe dizziness/vertigo, cant bend down or reach up tilting head she falls over.
    She cannot safely or repeatedly take a pan of the hob, either with or with walking frame, cannot take anything from the oven with getting dizzy to the point of falling over. so Descriptor E or F which would you say fits, because she scored 2 points

    2 Activity 3  As part of her rehabilitation we have to do Gaze Stimulation and balance exercises for around 1 1/2 to 2 hours a day, we got hammered by rehabilitation for not going hard enough, apparently when doing the exercises the point where she fells sick and her head is spinning is the key to re-learning some balance, Sadly after doing this weekly and for a long time there has been no improvement, the nerve was damaged during the operation. she scored 0 points


    Please tell me what scores do you thing were correct?
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    I'm assuming that the first part you're asking about is preparing food? Carrying items around the kitchen or carrying food to where it will be eaten is not included in this activity.

    This activity considers a claimant’s ability to prepare and cook a simple meal for one from fresh ingredients. It assesses ability to open packaging, peel and chop, serve food on to a plate and use a microwave oven or cooker hob to cook or heat food. Serving food means transferring food to a plate or bowl, it does not include presentation.

    If an aid can reasonably be used you will always score points for using the aid even if they receive assistance. If an aid can't reasonably be used you need to give reasons why it's not safe for the aid to used. Give examples of what happened the last time and aid was used. 2 points will be scored if they think the aid can be reasonabley used and a perching stool is an aid for this activity.


    Activity 3. Managing therapy or monitoring a health condition.

    manage therapeutic activities that are carried out in a domestic setting that are prescribed or recommended by a registered doctor, nurse, pharmacist or health professional regulated by the Health Professions Council;

    Without any of which their health is likely to deteriorate.

    This activity only applies to medication or therapy delivered in the home environment i.e. where the claimant live.

    Descriptor D. Between 3.5 and 7 hours per week if assistance, prompting or supervision is needed for this then 4 points maybe possible.

    Descriptor E. between 7 and 14 hours per week if assistance, prompting or supervision is needed then it's 6 points.

     @ilovecats i'm sure would be able to explain it far better than i can.



    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • madquasimodomadquasimodo Member Posts: 130 Courageous
    Its strange to have such differing view of the situation, I guess it depends on where your thought lie, using the link given earlier I see it different.

    • safely – Ms Z lacks a perception of danger and has previously cut and burnt herself. The HP should therefore conclude that descriptor A is not suitable for Ms Z as she cannot do so safely. Descriptor B, descriptor C and descriptor D are also not suitable as they do not remove the potential danger from using knives and hot pans. Descriptor E reflects the support that Ms Z needs in order to ensure her safety while cooking and is therefore the most suitable descriptor regarding safety

    • to an acceptable standard – Ms Z is impatient and does not cook food for as long as it should be cooked. As a result the food is lukewarm and meat is not cooked through. The HP must consider whether that is an acceptable standard and in this case would conclude it is not. The HP should therefore conclude that descriptor A is not suitable because Ms Z is unable to do so to an acceptable standard. Descriptor B and descriptor C are also not suitable as they do not help Ms Z to complete the task to an acceptable standard. Descriptor D best describes how Ms Z is able to cook a meal to an acceptable standard and is therefore the most suitable descriptor regarding the standard

    • repeatedly – this is satisfied as Ms Z is able to cook all of her meals

    • in a reasonable time period – this is satisfied as Ms Z has not indicated it takes her an overly long time to cook her meals

    2.2.30 In this case there are 2 possible descriptors – D and E. For a descriptor to apply, all aspects of reliability must be satisfied. As descriptor D does not describe a manner in which Ms Z is able to carry out the activity safely, the HP should select descriptor E.

    My partner can perch with an aid but is not safe to turn either way or up or down, she cant peel potatoes and then put them on the hob or remove them when cooked as she needs an aid to balance, its hard to hold on to balance and then hold a pan as well, she only has two hands. I see your point, but...... you need to open packets, where do they come from? you need to dispose of the trimings where do they go, from your point "you can prepare food" but its not automatically brought to you.
    From my view would you ask a drunk to prepare your food and what would your kitchen be like after, thats how unsteady she is, the ESA medical did correctly assess her mobility, but PIP used a nurse who knew nothing of her condition.

    The exercises are part of her rehabilitation and if I dont help her she has to go to hospital where the nearest Physo is.

    One thing to note Dizzy is the only way to describe whats wrong but in no way explains whats going on, lights, noise, people anything can set it off its not vertigo but has the same symptoms, she was tested and BPPV and Vertigo are excluded its nerve damage thats the problem.
  • madquasimodomadquasimodo Member Posts: 130 Courageous
    According to the F2F she has no cognitive/learning impairment, she suffers anxiety and depression, due to the problems she has, she can be absent minded and forget things, it is explained to me, as her head is spinning, the scenery is going round and she get disorientated with this and the noises in her head (tinnitus and popping sounds since her operation) she refuses sometimes to admit how bad she is as she says "I should be enjoying life not like this" after working 45 years this is not how she planned spending her time.

  • Maverick2020Maverick2020 Member Posts: 0 Listener
    Hey guys, An interesting thread though sadly not updated recently. I wonder how anyone who had applied for a worsening condition got on with their review? I am in the same boat and it was a nightmare getting PIP combnined with the mover from incapacity benefits in 2014 where they threw my entire claim out as a matter of course, as they did for many people at the time. It was just an excuse for a cull and every suicide case was money saved as far as the state was concerned. I couldnt have managed with CAB intervention but I am in toital dread about rocking the boat.
  • Miss_AnnmarieMiss_Annmarie Member Posts: 20 Courageous
    So last year after reading this thread, and all the naysayers saying they would just take what I had from me, (which was basic care on pip) I went called and told them I had got worse. The forms arrived and I went to CAB who helped me to fill them out, I posted them recorded.

    Now my money stayed the same whilst I waited, no problem at all, It didn’t take long to get an assessment date, however it did take 16 weeks to get a decision (it was over the Christmas period), when I got the decision it was a positive one, not only did I keep the care component I was was also awarded the mobility lower rate, which was backdated to when I called. So for me a positive outcome.

    hope this helps
  • Lou67Lou67 Member Posts: 821 Pioneering
    [email protected] Annmarie So glad to hear it worked out for you, glad you received what you were due 😊
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 5,380 Disability Gamechanger
    Excellent. Let’s hope the two posters at the start of the thread get to read this. You took advice; got the risk assessed and got a good outcome. 
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