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PIP - 3. Managing therapy or monitoring a health condition.
Trev121
Member Posts: 32 Listener
PIP - 3. Managing therapy or monitoring a health condition.
Hi,
I will be applying for PIP over the next few weeks.
I read somewhere a few weeks ago that because of some recent court ruling, some of the descriptor points for PIP question 3 were to be increased.
The descriptor which would be applicable to me would be:
The descriptor which would be applicable to me would be:
3. b. (11) Needs supervision, prompting or assistance to be able to manage medication. 1 point
Does anyone know if this will be increasing to 2 points soon, please?
regards
T
T
Replies
As, like Yadnad, I'm wondering about the difference, if any.
Whilst I take inhalers/capsules for COPD, and fit the bill for the descriptor...
"Needs supervision, prompting or assistance to be able to manage medication... ", as I regularly forget whether I've taken each one, I do not have actual therapy - and I suppose taking medication does not count/mean having actual therapy, does it?
I cannot remember where I read it, but I thought I saw an article weeks ago which implied a new court ruling stated the above descriptor would receive 2 points instead of the one soon, which it currently receives - which would have made a big difference.
regards
T
https://gcnchambers.co.uk/secretary-of-state-for-work-and-pensions-acknowledges-getting-law-wrong-again-on-meaning-of-pip-descriptors-will-have-to-conduct-review-of-old-cases/
For someone who has a chronic condition which requires medication/monitoring:
Before the recent decision: ‘Therapy’ excluded treatment which consisted of the monitoring of a health condition and administration of medication.
After the recent decision: Monitoring a condition and/or taking meds now count as 'therapy'.
I BELIEVE this means the following:
Example A: You have a chronic health condition. You need to take medication 3 times a day, but you forget a lot, so someone has to prompt/supervise/assist you.
Both before and after the decision you get b: 1 point, because you just need someone to prompt/supervise/assist you to take your meds.
Example B: You have a chronic health condition. You do physiotherapy for 30 minutes a day, and you need to take medication 3 times a day. Unfortunately you forget to do both of these a lot. To make sure that you do your physio and take your meds, someone has to prompt/supervise/assist you.
- Before the decision: You need prompting/supervision/assistance to do your physio for 3.5 hours a week, and you need prompting/supervision/assistance to take your meds 3 times a day. Because taking meds doesn't count as therapy, the total amount of time you need p/s/a for therapy is 3.5 hours. You get c: 2 points.
- After the decision: you get: You need prompting/supervision/assistance to do your physio for 3.5 hours a week, and you need prompting/supervision/assistance to take your meds 3 times a day. Now taking your meds *does*t count as therapy. How long does it take someone to p/s/a you to take the meds? 5 minutes, 3 times a day, 7 days a week = 1.75 hours. So the total amount of time you need p/s/a for therapy is 3.5 hours + 1.75 hours = 5.25 hours. You get d: 4 points.
(Remember: Prompting, supervision, and assistance are different things)
-------------------------------------
Descriptors for Question 3:
a. (0 points)
Either –
(i) does not receive medication or therapy or need to monitor a health condition; or
(ii) can manage medication or therapy or monitor a health condition unaided.
b. (1 point)
Needs either –
(i) to use an aid or appliance to be able to manage medication; or
(ii) supervision, prompting or assistance to be able to manage medication or monitor a health condition.
c. (2 points)
Needs supervision, prompting or assistance to be able to manage therapy that takes no more than 3.5 hours a week.
d. (4 points)
Needs supervision, prompting or assistance to be able to manage therapy that takes more than 3.5 but no more than 7 hours a week.
e. (6 points)
Needs supervision, prompting or assistance to be able to manage therapy that takes more than 7 but no more than 14 hours a week.
f. (8 points)
Needs supervision, prompting or assistance to be able to manage therapy that takes more than 14 hours a week.
--------------------------------------
a—
(a) registered –
(i) doctor;
(ii) nurse; or
(iii) pharmacist; or
(b) health professional regulated by the Health Professions Council;
So yeah, that sounds right.
Always pays to look up the words they use in benefits applications. They tend to define them very strictly.
Therapy is not the same as taking medication.
supervision, prompting or assistance to be able to manage medication or monitor a health condition will get you 1 point.
Therapy however will get you between 2 and 8 points depending on how many hours you have that therapy for in a week. - Needs supervision, prompting or assistance to be able to manage therapy
Are you suggesting that therapy is the same as taking medication?
If so you should also be counting the minutes each day for taking medication AND engaging in therapy.
.
As an example, I am a type 1 diabetic. I require supervision, prompting or assistance to maintain my blood sugar levels and the amount of insulin I should be taking. Insulin is a drug (medicine) and therefore is not therapy. I take copious amounts of different pain relief medication including morphine which is a restricted drug. I require supervision, prompting or assistance in taking that medication so as to avoid an overdose That is also medication and not therapy.
All of that will give me 1 point - that is if the assessor/DWP accept that the supervision, prompting or assistance is a requirement and not a personal choice which is how the DWP saw my needs.
Therapy to me is something that either you have third party intervention or you receive treatment other than by way of medication.
I presume pulmonary fibrosis as well as being diagnosed with chronic asthma is similar. I have this disease to the right lung in a severe way (according to the CT report)
And yes the GP did say exercise and medication (various inhalers) is all that they can offer by way of treatment.
Considering that I can't walk beyond 10 metres (as confirmed by the spinal unit) and have arthritis exercise is out of the question.
The assessor/DWP in the reports suggested that I didn't have any difficulty walking up to 200 metres and that the lung disease is mild and therefore my assortations where exaggerated.
I beg to differ which is why the chemist do the lot, however- that wasn't considered as evidence of my poor memory.
How do you prove that!
Apps are not tools or aids. I think one of the reasons being is they get used by non disabled / ill people. They are not specifically aimed at helping us, just making able people lazy!!
They also offer a postal service, but someone collects.
My form said "ordering and collecting medication were outside the scope of pip" so if that's the case they are dismissing the aid that they say you can score one point with!!
Either way I need help with it, I receive help with it. That's more important to me than their screwed up system.
Trying to convince the assessor/DWP that supervision, prompting and/or assistance is a need and not a choice is extremely difficult. As I have said, I fell foul of that too.
b. Needs either –
(i) to use an aid or appliance to be able to manage medication; or
(ii) supervision, prompting or assistance to be able to manage medication or monitor a health condition.
https://www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/news/3775-dwp-admits-to-getting-pip-law-wrong-again-many-thousands-of-claimants-will-get-back-payments .
"Managing therapy or monitoring a health condition
The changes to the ‘Managing therapy or monitoring a health condition’ activity in March 2017 were intended to prevent claimants who needed help in the form of supervision, prompting or assistance with taking medication or monitoring a health condition from scoring more than one point. The changes stated that help with taking medication, or with monitoring a health condition, did not count as help with therapy for which up to 8 points can be scored"
The dwp say - none of this applies from the date when they changed the law. So for cases from 16 March 2017 the DWP claims its decisions are correct"
But even if you can now score more than one. I got zero because they decided I didn't need supervision, prompting, assistance with any of the descriptors.
But I wonder if reliably and safely should have come into it here?
I did get points for supervision and prompting.
No matter what we think the decision makers etc will decide and we just need to like it or lump it
It will now take a Judicial Review to test if these changes are in fact legal. At the moment nothing seems to be happening with this second case. As it is now we are stuck with the amended descriptors.
You can never get more than 1 point for the medication descriptor.
However if you have to have some type of therapy you can get up to 8 points.
Taking medication and under going therapy is not the same thing.