Mobility scooters and the London Transport system

dkb123

What most people need is ,speed ,cool looking tech and safety , that's what the research says ,especially about the young elderly or older newly disabled, 
The law says 4 mph on the pavement ,8 mph on the road with all the lights and indications that go with it ,
A lot of chinese imports of urban electric vehicles ,scooters, trikes call them what you like offer 3 speed settings 5kph/10/and 15, which is way above the legal limit  but they are becoming popular because they are cheap, and easy to buy ,
But the manufactures do not seem to be talking to the transport system providers , the meaning of portable often means you can get it in the back of a car , the least of your worries in a city when you don't have a car , the regulations state that a scooter should not be more than 1 meter in length to fit into a bus , but most pavement friendly ones are over this , so you can not take them on a Bus ,or River Boat ,or Taxi ,
Most people live in flats so how do they fit into lifts , where do you power them up , how do they keep them safe at the bottom of tower blocks in bike bays.
Landlords say you can't park them in corridors ,they are a fire risk, safety hazard to the blind and so on . 
I think the city planners need  to rethink about how disabled people travel around a city and not just make the environment friendly but also promote the vehicles we use to do this 

More people would use the tube if we could access step free stations with a scooter/chair that climbs stairs and escalators , the fear of being stranded especially at night would go away if all chairs when into taxis, the new electric car charging points could also charge scooters ,and if the footpaths and pavement really were flat and drop kerbs are actually drop ones 

What do people think , should we march on city Hall and demand our rights, and ask for a new way of thinking ACCESS TO LONDON 
MAYOR TAKE NOTE

Misscleo

Very well said. If spoken on this myself. 
You only other person who sees the problem 

wilko

As a fairly new scooter user living in a semi rural area. I have found cars parked on pavements a problem also the lack of drop curbs on older paths and estates but new housing estates are more acomindating  except for the planting of shrubs left to grow to high to see on coming traffic. I have a boot scooter for taking shopping trips days out and hospital visits but have not used on public transport. I feel that those of use should be more careful in how we use our scooters in public places in regards to speed.

dkb123

Take the new Elizabeth Line , all disabled friendly except when you get on it, were do do change to get off it ,but you can't if you don't fit into the lift ,why do I have to go miles out of the way to get from Bow Road to Finsbury Park,or Earls Court

They spent so much money on the new line they forgot that the old stations with an upgrade could have been converted years ago with a little joined up thinking and a proper strategy so the whole system could be useful to the disabled ,now all we have is a piecemeal  no plan , we will do it when we can attitude 

dkb123

On the Jubilee Line watch out for Bond St and Green Park stations they only have level platform access on one door so if you get on at a level platform at another station you will not be able to get off unless you are in the level access doors at these two , I cracked my casing on the front wheel of my scooter the other day because the drop was to big and I drove into a seat on the platform and got stuck between the floof and the seat height , Lucky that a couple of young guys helped me get in out 

dkb123

it's also useful to know that if you come across a lift that's out of order and you are stuck in the station , try asking the staff to escort you to the Fireman's lift ,all deep level stations should have one 

exdvr

Hi @dkb123   It's not just London that's inconsistent regarding the length of mobility scooters on public transport.  My most recent experience was regarding Edinburgh Trams who insist on 100 cm length but their own advertising leaflet has a photo of a local councillor using a 121cm [47.5 inches] Sterling Sapphire 2 scooter on the tram !!!

I have used scooters 108 cm long on low-floor city tour buses but there is always the fear of some jobsworth quoting the rule book, but the difficulty is actually getting the thing certified in the first place.

Whoever decided on a blanket 100 cm limit certainly didn't put much thought into it.. 

Yes....don't get me started on drop-down kerbs and indiscriminate parking.

dkb123

I know what you mean , my Freerider Knightsbridge is 119 cm ,19 cm too long for London Buses, but I have a card which you have to apply for, to allow me on the Riverboats.
yes whoever was the whizzkid who came up with these rules were not very knowledge about the lifestyle of disabled people , times have moved on since the options of a manual pushed chair and the new young older generation didn't want Granny basket scooters anymore , powered is the future  

dkb123

will someone please tell me why mobility scooters are not allowed to use cycle or bus lanes 

Misscleo

Proberly cos your het squished by a bus

dkb123

well if you have a sensible comment to make I might take your observation  serious 

mikehughescq

Mobility scooters are not a prescribed aid as such and most are not licensed. Many are used by the able bodied as a car substitute and the second hand market remains a dangerous mess. Thus most are not roadworthy and rightly not allowed to go on roads. More to the point people are not required to train to use them nor pass tests. 

Putting aside the above it would be insane to allow even the roadworthy mobility scooters into a bus lane as they go at a tenth of the speed and would be a clear obstruction. Same issue with cycle lanes. You create separate lanes for things which go at the same speed not different sizes and speeds. 

This is nothing to do with the lifestyle of disabled people and everything to do with the ability to drive. There have been a number of deaths and injuries and a significant number where people speed or take them where they shouldn’t be. That includes public transport.

dkb123

the point is that the scooters are allowed on the roads which is a far more dangerous place than cycle lanes,and the use of scooters far predate  the introduction of bus and cycle lanes  by decades ,the law just has not caught up with the times  

Misscleo

There's enough accidents in shops with scooters we really don't want them on buses. They run over people feet. Hit peoples legs mostly cos the people who have them are selfish and usually fat.

At.least wheelchair users travel slow enough that disabled people don't get run over.

Our local supermarket has made ALL scooter users transfer to a wheelchair and have a staff to go round helping reach their goods.
Much much safer

dkb123

wheelchairs do the same ,it's not the equipments fault and I think it might just be an overgeneralization about the build of the users , comments like that is how discrimination and hate crimes start 

mikehughescq

dkb123 said:

the point is that the scooters are allowed on the roads which is a far more dangerous place than cycle lanes,and the use of scooters far predate  the introduction of bus and cycle lanes  by decades ,the law just has not caught up with the times  

That is incorrect on every front A small number of vehicles are allowed on the road. They are generally not classified as mobility scooters. The first mobility scooter was invented in 1968. The first cycle path in the 1890s and the first bus lane in 1940. 

dkb123

All that is very disputable and we have to live in the modern world  ,the fact remains that some road users are favoured above others ,which puts their safety in question 

mikehughescq

Feel free to dispute it with specific evidence that the dates are wrong and that unregistered vehicles can go on the road. You appear to be making some kind of vague argument for shared space. Doubt you’ll find anyone here who would accept that as the way forward. 

Bottom line is that until vehicles are registered and full lessons and exams in place nothing will change. 

dkb123

it did for cyclists , who are not registered or trained and go a lot faster then scooters 

mikehughescq

Have you ever met a cyclist who can’t control their bike? 

Sadly there are too many people with mobility scooters who lack both the intelligence to stay out of danger or the ability to control their vehicle without injuring themselves or others. Transport providers are fully aware of this and make decisions accordingly.

dkb123

and the same can be said about cyclists , time and time again we read of aggressive bike riders going through red lights passing heavy vehicles on the wrong side and being killed , just because of reckless behaviour and arrogance ,now because of a few politicians who wanted a quick cause in city hall we have a ridiculous ,unfair system that is needlessly putting lives at risk by forcing two groups of road users to share the same dangerous piece of tarmac