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Mobility scooters and the London Transport system
dkb123
Member Posts: 109 Pioneering
What most people need is ,speed ,cool looking tech and safety , that's what the research says ,especially about the young elderly or older newly disabled,
The law says 4 mph on the pavement ,8 mph on the road with all the lights and indications that go with it ,
A lot of chinese imports of urban electric vehicles ,scooters, trikes call them what you like offer 3 speed settings 5kph/10/and 15, which is way above the legal limit but they are becoming popular because they are cheap, and easy to buy ,
But the manufactures do not seem to be talking to the transport system providers , the meaning of portable often means you can get it in the back of a car , the least of your worries in a city when you don't have a car , the regulations state that a scooter should not be more than 1 meter in length to fit into a bus , but most pavement friendly ones are over this , so you can not take them on a Bus ,or River Boat ,or Taxi ,
Most people live in flats so how do they fit into lifts , where do you power them up , how do they keep them safe at the bottom of tower blocks in bike bays.
Landlords say you can't park them in corridors ,they are a fire risk, safety hazard to the blind and so on .
I think the city planners need to rethink about how disabled people travel around a city and not just make the environment friendly but also promote the vehicles we use to do this
More people would use the tube if we could access step free stations with a scooter/chair that climbs stairs and escalators , the fear of being stranded especially at night would go away if all chairs when into taxis, the new electric car charging points could also charge scooters ,and if the footpaths and pavement really were flat and drop kerbs are actually drop ones
What do people think , should we march on city Hall and demand our rights, and ask for a new way of thinking ACCESS TO LONDON
MAYOR TAKE NOTE
The law says 4 mph on the pavement ,8 mph on the road with all the lights and indications that go with it ,
A lot of chinese imports of urban electric vehicles ,scooters, trikes call them what you like offer 3 speed settings 5kph/10/and 15, which is way above the legal limit but they are becoming popular because they are cheap, and easy to buy ,
But the manufactures do not seem to be talking to the transport system providers , the meaning of portable often means you can get it in the back of a car , the least of your worries in a city when you don't have a car , the regulations state that a scooter should not be more than 1 meter in length to fit into a bus , but most pavement friendly ones are over this , so you can not take them on a Bus ,or River Boat ,or Taxi ,
Most people live in flats so how do they fit into lifts , where do you power them up , how do they keep them safe at the bottom of tower blocks in bike bays.
Landlords say you can't park them in corridors ,they are a fire risk, safety hazard to the blind and so on .
I think the city planners need to rethink about how disabled people travel around a city and not just make the environment friendly but also promote the vehicles we use to do this
More people would use the tube if we could access step free stations with a scooter/chair that climbs stairs and escalators , the fear of being stranded especially at night would go away if all chairs when into taxis, the new electric car charging points could also charge scooters ,and if the footpaths and pavement really were flat and drop kerbs are actually drop ones
What do people think , should we march on city Hall and demand our rights, and ask for a new way of thinking ACCESS TO LONDON
MAYOR TAKE NOTE
Replies
You only other person who sees the problem
They spent so much money on the new line they forgot that the old stations with an upgrade could have been converted years ago with a little joined up thinking and a proper strategy so the whole system could be useful to the disabled ,now all we have is a piecemeal no plan , we will do it when we can attitude
Hi @dkb123 It's not just London that's inconsistent regarding the length of mobility scooters on public transport. My most recent experience was regarding Edinburgh Trams who insist on 100 cm length but their own advertising leaflet has a photo of a local councillor using a 121cm [47.5 inches] Sterling Sapphire 2 scooter on the tram !!!
I have used scooters 108 cm long on low-floor city tour buses but there is always the fear of some jobsworth quoting the rule book, but the difficulty is actually getting the thing certified in the first place.
Whoever decided on a blanket 100 cm limit certainly didn't put much thought into it..
Yes....don't get me started on drop-down kerbs and indiscriminate parking.
Best wishes.
DLTBGYD
yes whoever was the whizzkid who came up with these rules were not very knowledge about the lifestyle of disabled people , times have moved on since the options of a manual pushed chair and the new young older generation didn't want Granny basket scooters anymore , powered is the future
Putting aside the above it would be insane to allow even the roadworthy mobility scooters into a bus lane as they go at a tenth of the speed and would be a clear obstruction. Same issue with cycle lanes. You create separate lanes for things which go at the same speed not different sizes and speeds.
This is nothing to do with the lifestyle of disabled people and everything to do with the ability to drive. There have been a number of deaths and injuries and a significant number where people speed or take them where they shouldn’t be. That includes public transport.
At.least wheelchair users travel slow enough that disabled people don't get run over.
Our local supermarket has made ALL scooter users transfer to a wheelchair and have a staff to go round helping reach their goods.
Much much safer
Bottom line is that until vehicles are registered and full lessons and exams in place nothing will change.
Sadly there are too many people with mobility scooters who lack both the intelligence to stay out of danger or the ability to control their vehicle without injuring themselves or others. Transport providers are fully aware of this and make decisions accordingly.
There seems a complete lack of appreciation that this isn’t a political issue. It’s a practical and insurance based decision. Politicians are more than keen to create cycle lanes and it’s easy to forget that bikes pre date 4 wheel vehicles. The issue is one of practicality. Ditto mobility scooters. I have seen over-sized mobility scooters on Manchester Metrolink. They endanger the use and those around them and indeed one did in fact drive straight into unopened doors and smash straight out onto the track below. Doubt you’d see that from a cyclist.
THE FACTS SPEAK FOR THEMSELVES
Three reasons:
1) On the Internet it is the equivalent of shouting.
2) It’s unlikely to comply with forum rules.
3) It is way harder to read than sentence case for anyone with a visual impairment.
Thank you.
Back on topic. Your post referred to the “reckless behaviour” and “arrogance” of cyclists. Would you kindly point out where , in the link you have posted, any of those accidents are attributed as being the fault of cyclists? I can see nothing there which says that at all. As I says earlier, lack of control and conscious decision making are two different things.
Could happily spend the rest of the day posting links to where users of mobility scooters have regrettably caused accidents.
"Hit peoples legs mostly cos the people who have them are selfish and usually fat."
On the subject of a fat people on scooters and people who supposedly cannot drive scooters:
I was about 10 stone and 26 years old when I was involved in the accident that damaged my back. The doctors said I would be in a wheelchair by the time I was forty because the accident left me with a condition that was going to degenerate over time. I have fought hard, through physical therapy and exercise, to stay mobile as possible and have made it to my 52nd birthday primarily having to use a mobility scooter when I am going to have to walk great distances (or stand for long periods of time--like trips to theme parks or museums). I am perfectly capable of getting on and off the scooter for short periods and a good portion of my "normal" life, and thus, most of the time, appear "able-bodied," although I am not legally or medically considered to be so. I have also put on weight as a result of all of this and the medications they put me on. In other words, if you saw me on the street, you might assume that I was a) able-bodied, b) lazy, and c) fat as a result of that laziness. None of those are actually true. My point is that you NEVER know the story of a person's disability by looking at them, and judging them based on what you can see, without know what they are actually dealing with, creates prejudice and greater obstacles for people who are already dealing with enough of them.
Also, most scooters do not have brakes. They only have accelerators. As a result, it is impossible to stop them with any accuracy. Sometimes it takes an inch. Sometimes it takes as many as six. And there is not a one-to-one relation to the speed you are going. Able-bodied people act as though people in mobility scooters have far more control over their scooters than the technology gives us. Time and again, I have had people see me moving in a particular direction at a constant speed, and hurry, as though I am a train, to try to cut me off to get past me (speeding up their pace, rather than breaking it slightly to allow me to continue at the pace I was already going, as they would a person on foot) and, when they find themselves bumped by the front of the scooter because I cannot stop on a dime to facilitate their rudeness, they then begin to curse at me for not being able to drive a piece of machinery they do not understand. Even when my husband walks a foot or foot and a half in front of me to try to clear the path in a crowd so that I will not have to deal with even the passive guilt of "clipping" someone who thinks they are more entitled to get where they are going than I am, I have had people (and I mean several people at a time) intentionally try hurry to squeeze into the 12-18 inch gap between us to get past and STILL get angry and start yelling at me for "hitting" them. I'm sure every single one of those people told themselves that I was somehow "selfish" or "able-bodied" and just "fat" to justify their anger at having faced a consequence for their own self-centeredness and their own behavior at yelling at someone who had actually been literally just been going about her day.
And don't waste your time trying to argue that I'm somehow the exception. Because I'm really, really not.