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Why would a panel excluded themselves from another tribunal?

JustJanJustJan Member Posts: 38 Courageous
edited July 2018 in PIP, DLA and AA
Hi all just to update you. In april my pip tribunal was adjourned for medical records before the tribunal took place. They said id be waiting 1-3 months. I have only just got a date for september. The reason for the delay is because the panel excluded themselves from another tribunal? Does anyone know why they would have done this? I will be sure to let you all know how i get on. I first applied for pip in march 2017 so its all quite long and stressful.

Replies

  • Chloe_ScopeChloe_Scope Scope Posts: 10,653 Disability Gamechanger
    Hi @JustJan and thank you for taking the time to update us about this. I am sorry to hear that it has been a long and stressful time for you, I really do hope it can be sorted soon! Please do continue to update us and I hope you get the answer to your question :)
    Scope

  • JustJanJustJan Member Posts: 38 Courageous
    I dont know why they would exclude themselves from another tribunal as i didnt see them face to face as they requested my medical records on the day the tribunal was due to go ahead.
  • markyboymarkyboy Member Posts: 368 Pioneering
    If somebody appeals against a tribunal decision and is set aside the panel are not allowed to hear the case again a new panel is put in place
  • JustJanJustJan Member Posts: 38 Courageous
    I didnt appeal against the tribunal decision as it didnt get heard.it got adjourned for medical records
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 6,591 Disability Gamechanger
    A tribunal can either be postponed - before the hearing is started - or adjourned - after the hearing is started. The principle is that all members of a tribunal must have the same level of knowledge of your case. You would not really think it fair for example if you waked on to find the judge who took against you on your last DLA appeal sitting to decide your PIP appeal with 2 other members.

    In your case the hearing was adjourned. That means they started to hear evidence and learnt something about you and your case. Now, imagine if your case were to be resisted and the medical professional on the current panel turned up as part of a different panel of 3. That would automatically mean they knew a little of your case and more than the other 2. It could be that at the 1st hearing they formed a view based on the little they heard and that then influences the 2 other members on the new panel even when there’s no evidence to form the view they did. 

    So, once they've started a hearing, but then decide to adjourn, they’ve 2 choices. Either reserve the next hearing to them or say it needs a new panel. The latter is easier as the medical professional and disability member are fee paid and sessional. They will coincide abd see each other again but chances are more by accident than design. Much easier to list it for a different 3 almost every time. The exception might be if you’re an hour into a hearing.
  • TopkittenTopkitten Member Posts: 1,263 Pioneering
    Perhaps one of the original panel is no longer available for some reason, thus ruling out the other two?

    TK
    "I'm on the wrong side of heaven and the righteous side of hell" - from Wrong side of heaven by Five Finger Death Punch.
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 6,591 Disability Gamechanger
    Topkitten said:
    Perhaps one of the original panel is no longer available for some reason, thus ruling out the other two?

    TK
    See my post above.
  • TopkittenTopkitten Member Posts: 1,263 Pioneering
    @mikehughescq, I did read most of it but didn't see a simple example of what I replied.

    As for hot having someone sit on a panel twice if they find against you that isn't true. I appealed 3 times and was given the same panel every time. On the third attempt the judge even commented about me not deserving it any more than I had previously and stated that because of that she decided to take away the lower rate mobility and no care component that I had appealed against. She didn't remember, her memory wasn't very good as she proved when writing her "statement of reasons", but she did check back on previous appeals. I have been told that's illegal but who would question a judge in our current system plus ofc no one reported her comments so all I could use of it was as hearsay.

    It was only when I appealed to the higher court that the panel concerned was excluded and my appeal went through correctly. I was given middle rate care and higher rate mobility which was at least fair.

    TK
    "I'm on the wrong side of heaven and the righteous side of hell" - from Wrong side of heaven by Five Finger Death Punch.
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 6,591 Disability Gamechanger
    Non-availability of one panel member is never an issue. An apppeal which has started and is then adjourned is either reserved to the same panel or a completely different one. There’s no other option. 

    If you’re saying that you had three separate appeals about the one benefit and all three proceeded to be heard by exactly the same three people then that’s clearly an error of law and your rep, if you had one, should have picked that up immediately. I’m glad the UT did. 

    If on the other hand it was the one appeal adjourned twice or two different benefits then that’s different. 
  • TopkittenTopkitten Member Posts: 1,263 Pioneering
    3 claims, 3 appeals, 1 UT request followed by another appeal all spread out over 4 years. The final claim lasted 20 months and the decision back-dated only that far, despite the incorrect previous decisions. Personally I think it disgusting that the judge checked back over previous appeals and made decisions based on out of date information before even dealing with a new appeal.

    TK
    "I'm on the wrong side of heaven and the righteous side of hell" - from Wrong side of heaven by Five Finger Death Punch.
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 6,591 Disability Gamechanger
    Wow. Bravo for having the persistence. My record with a client is 1 claim abd 9 years. 4 first tier appeals and 3 upper tribunal wins. Your case should never have been heard by any of the 1st 3 who heard it once they’d done the 1st appeal. That they did is not impressive at all and tells you much about HMCTS administration.
  • TopkittenTopkitten Member Posts: 1,263 Pioneering
    @mikehughescq, this was years ago now so it is possible that the rules have changed but I doubt it. This was supposedly a very respected judge in my area but the lady from the CAB who helped with 2 appeals did state that this particular judge considered disability as starting when the claimant stopped breathing for the final time. I do not know whether she is still around and I hope that if I have to appeal my PIP decision (which I am still waiting for) she is not around as, with my luck, I would get her again. Despite the respect I do know she couldn't write a "statement of reasons" correctly. At the time she was legally bound to produce it in 6 weeks but it took her over 3 months and then completely misquoted my claim more than a dozen times. The lady from the CAB showed it to a barrister friend with my notes about errors on it and evidently he couldn't stop laughing for over 30 minutes after he finished, lol!

    Ty for the comments but, at the time, despite the problems and length of time it was just the right thing to do and I was in a much better state then than I am now.

    As I am housebound now I sincerely hope I don't have to appeal because I have no idea how to go about it from home.

    TK
    "I'm on the wrong side of heaven and the righteous side of hell" - from Wrong side of heaven by Five Finger Death Punch.
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