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What the hell is rj gmcl please should they use it

Replies

  • GeoarkGeoark Community champion, Scope Volunteer Posts: 1,349 Disability Gamechanger
    Hello @Quinlan1 and welcome to the community.

    It refers to an upper tribunal judgement so yes it should be used considering if a claimant can carry out an activity safely. You can find out more at http://www.cpag.org.uk/content/safely-personal-independence-payment

    As an individual I stood alone.
    As a member of a group I did things.
    As part of a community I helped to create change!

  • wilkowilko Member Posts: 2,206 Disability Gamechanger
    Don't know what the initials stand for but it looks it's an abrevation for previous appeal cases / regulations ect  have you phoned DWP to try and get an answer? Good luck keep us posted and updated on your answers.
  • Quinlan1Quinlan1 Member Posts: 33 Connected
  • atlas46atlas46 Community champion Posts: 827 Pioneering
    Hi @Quinlan1

    Here we go.

    This refers to 4 appeals to the Upper Tribunal on the 9th March,  2017.

    Google "(2017) UKUT 105 (AAC)"

    Importantly, they were heard by a three judge panel, that means they cannot be challenged!

    Importantly, all four cases where sent back to the appeal tribunal for rehearing.

    This means the secretary of state for DWP, lost these appeals, that he now wishes to rely on your case.

    I would seek the advice of a welfare rights officer.

    Keep us informed & good luck.
  • Quinlan1Quinlan1 Member Posts: 33 Connected
  • YadnadYadnad Member - under moderation Posts: 2,862 Disability Gamechanger
    edited July 2018
    I see we have a 'driving a car argument'.

    Doesn't matter if the car is a Motability one you should have the award taken away in any event because you can manage to drive it!!
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    Yadnad said:
    I see we have a 'driving a car argument'.

    Doesn't matter if the car is a Motability one you should have the award taken away in any event because you can manage to drive it!!
    Brilliant post, well said!
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • YadnadYadnad Member - under moderation Posts: 2,862 Disability Gamechanger

    Brilliant post, well said!
    I thought so too.

    It just goes to show where the DWP get their reasoning from if you admit to driving a car, automatic, Motability or otherwise when attempting to claim PIP or at a pinch ESA.

  • Quinlan1Quinlan1 Member Posts: 33 Connected
    So now I know can’t win appeal
     Don’t worry I will not be on here again all ready down now the knife in
     al I use the car for is weekly hospital trip to get  TNF drugs 
    I was honest as I new they could find out
    with luck with no drugs be dead by xmas


  • Gwendoline1Gwendoline1 Member Posts: 226 Pioneering
    Hi everyone, I’ve read a number of people on this forum that have discussed the matter regarding driving ,and this being a big obstacle regarding getting the mobility component. Many years back ( I’m sure there are a number of people on here remember) there was a specifically designed car ( albeit quite controversial these days, which I as a disabled person totally agree ) for disabled people to drive, a funny coloured green/blue  car , I think, only one person. So why oh why as the dwp changed the rules regarding the difficulty people are finding. For me I no longer drive, various reasons and I feel it’s safer not to,that doesn’t meant that’s right for others. I’m truly shocked that people could possibly lose their independence because of the fear of losing money. It’s shocking 
  • YadnadYadnad Member - under moderation Posts: 2,862 Disability Gamechanger
    Quinlan1 said:
    So now I know can’t win appeal
     Don’t worry I will not be on here again all ready down now the knife in
     al I use the car for is weekly hospital trip to get  TNF drugs 
    I was honest as I new they could find out
    with luck with no drugs be dead by xmas


    This argument that they will use against drivers can only be countered in my opinion by telling the assessor that you no longer drive. It's as though you are being forced into lying to stop this ridiculous argument developing.
  • YadnadYadnad Member - under moderation Posts: 2,862 Disability Gamechanger
    edited July 2018
    Hi everyone, I’ve read a number of people on this forum that have discussed the matter regarding driving ,and this being a big obstacle regarding getting the mobility component. Many years back ( I’m sure there are a number of people on here remember) there was a specifically designed car ( albeit quite controversial these days, which I as a disabled person totally agree ) for disabled people to drive, a funny coloured green/blue  car , I think, only one person. So why oh why as the dwp changed the rules regarding the difficulty people are finding. For me I no longer drive, various reasons and I feel it’s safer not to,that doesn’t meant that’s right for others. I’m truly shocked that people could possibly lose their independence because of the fear of losing money. It’s shocking 

    Yes it was called the plastic pig

    Image result for plastic pig disabled

    The argument about driving has been around for a while. It was dreamt up by the DWP to discredit anybody and everybody that admitted to driving a car and claiming PIP both the mobility and care elements.
    I have to be honest it is a rather skilful argument to use. However being a reader of Rightsnet Welfare Rights Officers say that it is easily dismissed if the right argument is put forward. What the argument is I don't know - maybe Mike Hughes can enlighten us.

    It does make a mockery of the Motability scheme if you admit to driving one of their cars you will lose the mobility element and the car is then taken back!
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    My argument is that there's certain conditions that shouldn't allow a person to drive. Most pharmacies do deliveries these days so if a person is unable to go out then this should be looked into.
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • Gwendoline1Gwendoline1 Member Posts: 226 Pioneering
    Wow that’s it, thanks I remember a neighbour of my parents had one, thanks for getting that picture up. 
    You’ re absolutely right. It’s disgusting, you’re dammed if you do, you’re dammed if you don’t!
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    I have to say though that the assessment provider knew i drove during both my PIP assessments. It didn't go against me in either of mine. My mobility was increased after my review too from standard to enhanced.

    I'm unable to walk very far but i certainly don't have any issues driving an automatic. I don't suffer with MH and my cognitive ability is fine too.
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • Gwendoline1Gwendoline1 Member Posts: 226 Pioneering
    That’s great to hear that under certain circumstances it doesnt create a problem for mobility payments.
    Ive become disabled over the last 5 year ish and only recently found this forum. I’m shocked and disgusted how people are being treated. Why oh why does this happen, I’m definitely with a tier system for the individuals needs and therefore payments of benefits accordingly. I truly can’t get over that this is happening in 2018. I was shocked the way I was treated in my 1st esa assessment but simply put it down to a rude and thoughtless person. It’s only since on this forum that I’ve come to realise that it’s the norm. Unbelievable!
  • Gwendoline1Gwendoline1 Member Posts: 226 Pioneering
    My reason for not driving is the medication I take and my physical disabilities.
  • YadnadYadnad Member - under moderation Posts: 2,862 Disability Gamechanger
    My argument is that there's certain conditions that shouldn't allow a person to drive. Most pharmacies do deliveries these days so if a person is unable to go out then this should be looked into.


    For the most those conditions are mandatory in that your licence will be taken off you. Be it because of the drugs you take or the condition that you suffer from.

    Not being able to go out is more than possible without a car or even having to use public transport. I use neither and spend most of my week visiting residents of my ward as well as working out of the council offices. It's all about looking at things from a different angle to find ways around the situation you are in.
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger

    Ive become disabled over the last 5 year ish and only recently found this forum. I’m shocked and disgusted how people are being treated. Why oh why does this happen,
    You do have to remember that you mostly only the read the bad stories. There's lots of people out there who do claim PIP successfully, without having to fight for it. The problem is, is that we don't hear about them. If someone's had a decision in their favour and they're happy with it, they have no questions to ask, therefore we don't hear their story.
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    Yadnad said:


    Not being able to go out is more than possible without a car or even having to use public transport. I use neither and spend most of my week visiting residents of my ward as well as working out of the council offices. It's all about looking at things from a different angle to find ways around the situation you are in.
    I never said it was but there's people out there that couldn't go out without their car and using public transport for some isn't an option. Lucky for you that you're able to walk around the ward visiting residents.
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • YadnadYadnad Member - under moderation Posts: 2,862 Disability Gamechanger
    I have to say though that the assessment provider knew i drove during both my PIP assessments. It didn't go against me in either of mine. My mobility was increased after my review too from standard to enhanced.

    I'm unable to walk very far but i certainly don't have any issues driving an automatic. I don't suffer with MH and my cognitive ability is fine too.
    That particular statement is put out by the DWP not the assessor.
    It is found in many decision notices to reinforce why an award should not be made.
    It has already been the subject of many conversations on Rightsnet over the past 12 months. It is nothing more than a cut and past statement that the DWP thought up.
  • Quinlan1Quinlan1 Member Posts: 33 Connected
    Yadhad very lucky person  how did you get pip if you do so much in a week
    me  can’t use a bus as I need the toilet now  same with a taxi if I have a accendent in my car  it’s ok hospital 10 mins away that’s all I drive go to the loo before I set off when I get there   This has got me so upset   
  • YadnadYadnad Member - under moderation Posts: 2,862 Disability Gamechanger
    edited July 2018

    Ive become disabled over the last 5 year ish and only recently found this forum. I’m shocked and disgusted how people are being treated. Why oh why does this happen,
    You do have to remember that you mostly only the read the bad stories. There's lots of people out there who do claim PIP successfully, without having to fight for it. The problem is, is that we don't hear about them. If someone's had a decision in their favour and they're happy with it, they have no questions to ask, therefore we don't hear their story.
    In fact the chances of being awarded the right level of PIP is up towards 90% of all decisions made.
    Surprisingly there are a number of claimants who make it extremely hard on purpose for the assessor to give a good report and the DWP to make a half decent award. I know of one individual that makes it his life mission to be as awkward as he can simply to create a situation that enables him to complain to his MP at regular intervals. I am sure that he really doesn't give a damn if he gets an award or not - he likes to create chaos and aggravation.
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    Quinlan1 said:
    Yadhad very lucky person  how did you get pip if you do so much in a week
    me  can’t use a bus as I need the toilet now  same with a taxi if I have a accendent in my car  it’s ok hospital 10 mins away that’s all I drive go to the loo before I set off when I get there   This has got me so upset   
    You must have him confused with someone else here. Yadnad doesn't receive PIP or any other disability benefit. Jealousy doesn't get you far these days, sorry but you can't compare yourself to others.
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    Yadnad said:

    Ive become disabled over the last 5 year ish and only recently found this forum. I’m shocked and disgusted how people are being treated. Why oh why does this happen,
    You do have to remember that you mostly only the read the bad stories. There's lots of people out there who do claim PIP successfully, without having to fight for it. The problem is, is that we don't hear about them. If someone's had a decision in their favour and they're happy with it, they have no questions to ask, therefore we don't hear their story.
    In fact the chances of being awarded the right level of PIP is up towards 90% of all decisions made.
    Surprisingly there are a number of claimants who make it extremely hard on purpose for the assessor to give a good report and the DWP to make a half decent award. I know of one individual that makes it his life mission to be as awkward as he can simply to create a situation that enables him to complain to his MP at regular intervals. I am sure that he really doesn't give a damn if he gets an award or not - he likes to create chaos and aggravation.
    Surprisingly? from all the stories i read i'm not surprised by that at all.
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • YadnadYadnad Member - under moderation Posts: 2,862 Disability Gamechanger

    I never said it was but there's people out there that couldn't go out without their car and using public transport for some isn't an option. Lucky for you that you're able to walk around the ward visiting residents.
    When one has no choice in the matter and walking is the only alternative albeit with stops every 10/15 metres you have to do it - you are left with a choice of vegetating in the home or taking responsibility for your own difficulties.

  • Gwendoline1Gwendoline1 Member Posts: 226 Pioneering
    Hi all, I’m certainly not complaining I’ve a wonder husband and children who will take me anywhere, I’m very lucky. 
    My comments regarding how the pip/esa system work as shocked me, I have no doubt that many,many people do receive the correct level of benefit. I have and many others I assume have and will be treated with respect and decency, this should be for all. Why lie in an assessment, if a person doesn’t meet the criteria for a descriptor then that’s it but to blatantly lie when these people have the evidence baffles me. 
    I’m waiting for my dm decision and my stress level is through the roof, goodness knows how people must feel when there’s lies involved and their pip/esa as been declined. Shocking. 
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    Why lie in an assessment, if a person doesn’t meet the criteria for a descriptor then that’s it but to blatantly lie when these people have the evidence baffles me. 

    I'm confused by your comment above. Who's lied?
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • Pippa_ScopePippa_Scope Member Posts: 5,856 Disability Gamechanger
    edited July 2018
    Hi @Quinlan1, I'm so sorry to hear that you're feeling upset about all of this- the appeals process can feel really draining and overwhelming, but here on the community we'll try to advise and assist wherever we can. 

    You are a member of our community and we appreciate you. If you are having thoughts of suicide, it is important that you discuss them with someone who is qualified to help. Please call the Samaritans on 116 123 (free) or email them at [email protected]. You might also benefit from reading MIND’s information on how you can help yourself. If you feel that you may be an immediate danger to yourself, please call 999 or go to your local hospital right away.

    It was mentioned above too, but something you might like to look into is having your prescriptions delivered to your house- this Boots page has some more information which may be worth a read. Have a look, and please do come back to us with any questions and let us know how you're doing.


  • Quinlan1Quinlan1 Member Posts: 33 Connected
    Pipa got upset as one of them said I should not drive and claim pip  I am doing this all alone every person I asked for help has drop me wil not be doing anything more on here just go over a Suicide attempt still no help yes done social services gp mind never mind thanks for careing
  • Gwendoline1Gwendoline1 Member Posts: 226 Pioneering
    Hi poppy123456,The ‘lies’ Ive stated is regarding the hcp and their written statements that people on this forum as discussed and the treatment they have received on their assessment day.
  • YadnadYadnad Member - under moderation Posts: 2,862 Disability Gamechanger
    Hi poppy123456,The ‘lies’ Ive stated is regarding the hcp and their written statements that people on this forum as discussed and the treatment they have received on their assessment day.
    The report is not a statement of fact. It is a statement of one person's opinion. The assessor may well have decided that everything you have put on your form is untrue or that the evidence sent in does not prove how your issues impact on your life.
    I and everyone else can have an opinion about anything. It certainly does not need to be true. As an example I could have the opinion that the majority of people that have a Blue Badge are faking their condition to get it, the truth however is that most are genuinely in need of that badge and are entitled to it.
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