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PiP appeal pending

Grumpy1954

Hi all, given standard on both for PiP, assessor ignored everything I said, stated they no longer use medical evidence (I didn't bring any as I was told they'd contact my GP) and made up my abilities.
Had my mandatory reconsideration, pointed out they'd ignored everything I said and repeated my capabilities, decision was I lied and the assessor was entirely truthful, so gone to appeal, with support from GP. Instead of repeating myself all over again, given I had to enclose a copy of the MR report, I went for stating the decision was unfair, heavily laced with huge assumptions without backing evidence. Had a letter stating it's been recieved.

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poppy123456

HI,

As you were awarded standard in both then they couldn't have ignored everything. They very rarely contact anyone for evidence, the onus is on you to make sure it's sent to support your claim. MR decisions usually remain the same but there's more chance at Tribunal, if you appear in person.

You need to send evidence to the Tribunal to support your claim. As long as it arrives at least 10 days before the hearing that that's fine. Expect a long wait, some wait as long as 1 year for their hearing date. Good luck.

Grumpy1954

I took what I was told at face value. When I say they ignored me, I mean things like taking my statement that I could walk 15m without extreme pain and passing out and put "he can walk 50m". I said I can't cook because my attention wanders, they put "he can drive therefore he can cook and he looks well fed so he must be lying" They told me not to bring medical evidence as they'd get it direct from my GP, then told me they no longer use medical evidence. I had repeat prescriptions etc with me, and too much history to be knocked below Standard. They just altered it enough to deny me enhanced on both
As I said, I have included evidence from the GP with the appeal. He'd ordered a physiotherapy review and x rays, but they weren't available within the time limit to send it off.

Did you have the assessment at home or in a centre?

Its a fair point to say if you can drive safely then you’re likely to be able to cook unless there are other physical factors you’ve stated.

Yadnad

Pin said:

Did you have the assessment at home or in a centre?

Its a fair point to say if you can drive safely then you’re likely to be able to cook unless there are other physical factors you’ve stated.

….and dress/undress, wash/bathe, manage money yourself etc

poppy123456

Yes, i can also see why they said if you can drive you can cook. Driving takes a huge amount of concentration.

Grumpy1954

Home assessment proved difficult within a reasonable time, so I had to go to a Centre. You could also assume if I can drive a car I can fly an aeroplane, it's a similar procedure, after all.
I've been driving for nearly 60 years, experience reduces the concentration as does leaving decent braking distances and other good driving practices, and only driving automatics now.
I went from living at my mother's into the Armed Forces then marriage. never needed to learn to cook. Now, I get distracted, forget to turn the gas off or wander off and the food gets burnt. can a top chef drive a lorry? I mean, by that reasoning, if he's a good chef he must be a really good driver.....
Sitting behind a wheel doesn't mean I can bend down and put my own shoes and socks on, most of my problems are lower back downwards. getting in to the car, or in/out of bed can be challenging. I'm not a basket case, there are things I can still do, and things I can't - forgetting to take my meds is one, yet they think if I can drive I must have a photographic memory. Over the last few years my memory has been slipping some - good job there are road signs.....

My assessment notes I can walk 21 metres because that’s the distance from the waiting room to the office. Could it be similar for you?

Flying a plane and driving a car are two very different skills. It sounds like you need to be showing the physical difficulties you have cooking? We’re trying to be helpful.

poppy123456

Saying you forget to turn the gas off because you get distracted and the food gets burnt, yet you drive is contradicting yourself because it takes concentration to drive, regardless of how long you've been driving. I'm not sure what a top chef has to do with driving a lorry here. They have already used that against you and they could do the same at a Tribunal. Maybe taking a different approach would have been better, which is why it's always good to get help with things like this.

We're just pointing out what it sounds like to us and trying to help.

Grumpy1954

Pin, no, I arrived on a mobility scooter, walked 4 ft from it to a chair, and they noted I can walk 50m. The other nit picks were all similar assumptions without any evidence. I explained the mental and physical problems I have doing things, they disregarded it all. I said planes and lorries to show how faulty the assumption is, Competent at one thing does not make you good at another.
Poppy, I have NOT contradicted myself, yes, it takes concentration to drive,not so much for me as I've been doing it for so long and I'm pretty competent - on familiar roads. It takes concentration to fly a plane or drive a lorry or run a restaurant - but to assume I can also cook , a natural progression would be top cooks can drive anything or fly planes. My concentration has holes in it, cooking is one of the blank spots. For whatever reason, my brain switches off and I wander off to do something else..
On the same reasoning, you can spell and write grammatically correct, so you must be a top author with best selling books - you're saying one thing is the same as another, it's not, the assumption is faulty. My wife can drive, but would not be able to ride a motorcycle - though she can cook very well.
I was asked to post my progress and I have done so.
You're not pointing out alternatives, just telling me their decision was right and if I can drive I must be some kind of brilliant all rounder, which is not the case. I'm 63, had great difficulty with my knees, hips and lower back for 20+ years as well as my other health problems and limitations. I will not reply again and may well leave the group all together.

You’re not really taking on board what we’re saying.

you say you arrived on a mobility scooter - so you can’t stand for long periods of time. Ie to cook - so that’s going to be a more acceptable reason for needing an aid.

your analogies are way off, it’s not about skills - it’s about concentrations. If you don’t have the concentration to not leave gas on/cause fires/cook then it’s a natural assumption that you won’t have the concentration to drive.

Yadnad

Pin said:

My assessment notes I can walk 21 metres because that’s the distance from the waiting room to the office. Could it be similar for you?

I say that is awfully convenient for the assessor. Probably moved a couple of chairs a few inches to make the extra metre!

Grumpy1954

Pin said:

You’re not really taking on board what we’re saying.

you say you arrived on a mobility scooter - so you can’t stand for long periods of time. Ie to cook - so that’s going to be a more acceptable reason for needing an aid.

your analogies are way off, it’s not about skills - it’s about concentrations. If you don’t have the concentration to not leave gas on/cause fires/cook then it’s a natural assumption that you won’t have the concentration to drive.

Ok, that's a more reasonable reply. But as I keep saying, the concentration needed to drive after 60 yrs is minimal, unless something unexpected happens I can almost drive in my sleep. A direct comparison with something I've never done in my life, which would take a lot of concentration, is ridiculous - not sure if I get bored, lose concentration, whatever, but if I start reading a book, see something interesting on the news, go to bathroom and get distracted on the way back.
The actual reason given for me lying that I can't cook was that I look well fed, which assumes the only way I can get food is buy and cook it myself .
You may not like my analogies, but just keep telling me if I can drive I must be able to do a range of things I've never done in my life is fairly unhelpful , very presumptive and a little dumb. Goodnight, maybe goodbye, I'll decide tomorrow evenng.

Yadnad

Grumpy1954 said:

Ok, that's a more reasonable reply. But as I keep saying, the concentration needed to drive after 60 yrs is minimal, unless something unexpected happens I can almost drive in my sleep. A direct comparison with something I've never done in my life, which would take a lot of concentration, is ridiculous - not sure if I get bored, lose concentration, whatever, but if I start reading a book, see something interesting on the news, go to bathroom and get distracted on the way back.
The actual reason given for me lying that I can't cook was that I look well fed, which assumes the only way I can get food is buy and cook it myself .
You may not like my analogies, but just keep telling me if I can drive I must be able to do a range of things I've never done in my life is fairly unhelpful , very presumptive and a little dumb. Goodnight, maybe goodbye, I'll decide tomorrow evenng.

Grumpy I would hate to be in a car knowing that you are driving on the same stretch of road. - the concentration needed to drive after 60 yrs is minimal, unless something unexpected happens I can almost drive in my sleep. Driving on a country road at 60mph and a child runs across right in front of you - you would probably kill the said child because you were semi conscious!

I know for a fact that if you were to explain to a Traffic police officer how you consider yourself to be a good driver - you would be booked and your licence taken off you.

I do wonder how you would cope on a busy motorway with 44 tonne vehicles travelling at up to 70mph who decide to pull into your centre lane without indicating and you not being able to pull into the outside lane because there are cars overtaking you at speeds of up to 100mph +.

It doesn't matter how old you are and how many years you have been driving there is no way you are both safe on the road to yourself or other road users.

Sorry but in the interests of all drivers you should be handing your licence to the DVLA telling them that you are no longer a safe driver.

What yadnad said. It’s all well and good to flounce, but you need to take some advice on board.

theres a massive difference between putting an m and s meal in a microwave and drivekng a one tonne vehicle. It’s not all about knowing how to drive- you have to have good concentration.

LittleGizmo86

@Grumpy1954

Affraid i agree with everyone else. If you really cant concentrate long enough to cook a 'simple meal'as the descriptors state... you really cant and shouldnt be driving.

You said you dont really need to concentrate 'unless something unexpected happens'... unexpected happens on the road ALL the time... so just out of interest how often do these unexpected things cause you to crash?!

I am not allowed to drive anymore due to failing eyesight. I drove the same route every day for about 4 years and could probably do it on auto pilot after i go totally blind it is printed in my mind that well... doesnt mean i should or that it would be safe!!

poppy123456

Driving comes naturally to me too because i've been driving for a long time but it still takes a lot of concentration. There's times when i'm unable to drive because of this, something which i admitted to myself a long time ago. I'm sorry but it does sound like you're contradicting yourself here.

Grumpy1954

You are all talking through your backsides, these things are ALL skills to be learnt, and I was very well and extensively trained to drive a wide range of vehicles including 5 tonne lorries The point I have tried to make is the amount of concentration I need to drive safely is vastly different to that of a learner driver who has to think about every action. I never said I can't or don't concentrate.
How hard do you all have to concentrate to use a toilet? or walk, which is a complicated action?
I have had 3 accidents in 50 years, neither of them my fault and I have not caused anyone else to avoid me either. The only incident I've had with a 44 tonne lorry was halfway round a 90 degree bend when he was on the wrong side of the road and I drove off road for the safety of my passengers
.Having said that, cooking is also a skill I never learnt. Yes, I can microwave something simple, but I cannot cook a full meal BECAUSE i WAS NEVER TAUGHT TO which is likely why I lose interest quickly. Comparing microwaving a prepared meal , punching 3 buttons then waiting for it to ding is nothing like driving and the comparison is moronic
Concentration is one thing, but it cannot help is you've never been taught to do the thing in the first place.
Talking of idiotic examples, 44 tonne lorry cuts into my lane without warning, I cannot change lane because vehicles are (illegally) doing 100+ mph either side of me - any driver however competent would be dead, if you have nowhere to go and that happens, there's nothing can be done to avoid it. I was lucky with my incident artic on the wrong side of the road that I could get off the road out of it's path at that point.

Good luck with your appeal.

Grumpy1954

The one thing all this has given me that helps, is the realisation that cooking and driving are different skills, and no matter what your concentration level, doing one does not qualify you to do the other, for that, I thank you.

LittleGizmo86

Grumpy1954 said:

You are all talking through your backsides, these things are ALL skills to be learnt, and I was very well and extensively trained to drive a wide range of vehicles including 5 tonne lorries The point I have tried to make is the amount of concentration I need to drive safely is vastly different to that of a learner driver who has to think about every action. I never said I can't or don't concentrate.
How hard do you all have to concentrate to use a toilet? or walk, which is a complicated action?
I have had 3 accidents in 50 years, neither of them my fault and I have not caused anyone else to avoid me either. The only incident I've had with a 44 tonne lorry was halfway round a 90 degree bend when he was on the wrong side of the road and I drove off road for the safety of my passengers
.Having said that, cooking is also a skill I never learnt. Yes, I can microwave something simple, but I cannot cook a full meal BECAUSE i WAS NEVER TAUGHT TO which is likely why I lose interest quickly. Comparing microwaving a prepared meal , punching 3 buttons then waiting for it to ding is nothing like driving and the comparison is moronic
Concentration is one thing, but it cannot help is you've never been taught to do the thing in the first place.
Talking of idiotic examples, 44 tonne lorry cuts into my lane without warning, I cannot change lane because vehicles are (illegally) doing 100+ mph either side of me - any driver however competent would be dead, if you have nowhere to go and that happens, there's nothing can be done to avoid it. I was lucky with my incident artic on the wrong side of the road that I could get off the road out of it's path at that point.

@Grumpy@Grumpy1954

You might not require much concentration as a learner but it is still more that for cooking.

You said you should be awarded PIP as you lack concentration and you are unsafe. Not you are saying it is because you were never taught. You cant get PIP because you were never taught to cook. That isnt a thing.

You need to get your owm story straight before the tribunal because we are tying you in knots here so i dread to think what the panel will do!

All that said.. good luck with your appeal. As it stands you are going to need it!