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Can I appeal only the daily living side of PIP?

davies89

Hi, my partner has recently had a face to face for PIP. He has COPD and is on a lot of medication for it. He is also on medication for anxiety/depression. He was awarded enhanced mobility but was not awarded daily living side of it. I have already been through the mandatory appeal but has still been refused for it. He is unable to dress or undress himself, cook his own food and has to be prompted to eat and I have to physically give him his medication or he will not take it. Can I appeal only the daily living side without the mobility side being looked at again? I had to give up work due to my partners health and also have 2 children look after. Any help and advice will be much appreciated. Thanks.

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Matilda

The tribunal will look at both components.

Pippa_Alumni

Hi @davies89, and a warm welcome to the community!

Thanks for sharing this with us- sorry to hear your MR wasn't successful. As @Matilda says, the tribunal would look at both components, not just one. If you do decide to appeal, you may like to check out Scope's guidance on appealing DWP decisions to help you prepare. Hope this helps, and do keep us updated!

https://youtu.be/tIHjSpNNbQo

davies89

@Pippa_Scope thank you for getting back to me. It's really frustrating as he was awarded it before for 3 years and I was able to get carers. It's just annoying as his condition as worsened throughout the years and needs care now more than ever. He got points for me having to cook, bathe him and help him socialise with other people. It's a bit of a contradiction as I have to undress him to get into the bath and dress him when he is out. Without me being there to dress him he would not be able to attend doctors appointments or bath ect.

Topkitten

The award is classed as a "decision" and you can appeal the decision as a whole but not part of it. You have to chance losing what you have in order to get what you think is fair.

Get advice from the CAB and anyone else in your area that you can think of. You will definitely need advice on how to apply for the appeal and on what basis you think it should be challenged.

Whilst we all imagine we are worse than others, they have other cases to compare them too when people have well known problems, despite the fact that everyone responds differently. I presume they are not supposed to do this but it almost certainly will happen

I imagine your caring for him is part of the problem or at least their excuse for it. Family caring is given far less weight than having actual carers come in to do it.

You have some difficult decisions to make but I hope things go well for you.

TK

Matilda

@davies89

Many assessors' reports and consequently DWP decisions are of poor quality, factually inaccurate, which is why 71% of appeals succeed. As long as you think the current award is safe from reduction, it's worth appealing. My appeal increased my award from standard to enhanced both components.

You have been given advice above. Also, Disability Rights UK site (DRUK) has a good guide to PIP appeals. And they publish a Handbook that gives a detailed outline of PIP appeal hearings procedure. £18.50 from DRUK site or probably available in your local reference library.

The first stage of appeal is to ask for a mandatory reconsideration (MR).

advice now.org.uk/pip-tool will generate an MR submission letter.

Debbie1234

Hi ?
I am just wondering how you got on with your appeal? I am in a similar position. I got awarded standard rate (11points) & mobility (4points) I totally disagree with the mobility part. My doctor has stated I get severe panic attacks and I can't go out unaccompanied, yet they only gave me 4 points. Which comes under, I need encouraging to go out. Please help me if you can

poppy123456

Debbie1234 said:

Hi ?
I am just wondering how you got on with your appeal? I am in a similar position. I got awarded standard rate (11points) & mobility (4points) I totally disagree with the mobility part. My doctor has stated I get severe panic attacks and I can't go out unaccompanied, yet they only gave me 4 points. Which comes under, I need encouraging to go out. Please help me if you can

Hi,

This thread is 2 years old and the original poster hasn't returned in all that time, so they may not answer you. Although i can see from their post that they did receive Enhanced mobility, which is different to your claim.

My opinion is needing prompting to go out for your reason then 4 points is the correct award.

Debbie1234

Thank you for the reply ?
I personally think I should of come under "can not undertake a familiar journey without being unaccompanied" 12 points
to give you an example, in 4 months I have managed to leave the house twice with my husband. My doctor allowed my daughter to come to the surgery with me under the covid 19 restrictions because I am so agoraphobic and won't go out alone.

Debbie1234

Accompanied * sorry that's what I meant

poppy123456

Then your GP just stating that you have severe panic attacks isn't enough. A GP will very rarely know how our conditions affect us because they spend very little time with us. They will only know something, if you tell them and this isn't evidence. You need to state why you can't go out alone, what happened the last time you attempted to go out alone, who seen it and where you were you when it happened. Anecdotal evidence is always the best.

Debbie1234

Thank you so much. In my MR letter the DM states that my gp admits I can't go out alone and the reasons etc..,, also that I have accute/severe panic attacks 3-4 times a week. She has put me on a list for therapy and put me on medication. I really don't know what to do. I have been on esa support group for 12 years and never had to go for a work assessment. Filling pip forms every 2 years is making me really suicidal again. I suffer complex post traumatic stress and having to keep looking on my very bad days is really distressing and disturbing.

Debbie1234

My daughter also sent a letter to confirm how I had a major panic attack with her etc.... a very detailed letter.
i had 2 points for daily and 0 for mobility before I sent off for my MR. I just don't know wether to appeal also for a longer period

Debbie1234

Thank you for all your advice though, it is much appreciated

Topkitten

This has probably been covered already but I went through this so I'll comment.

My third attempt to get DLA granted the lowest rate of Care and no Mobility. I appealed and not only did I not get Mobility they also took away the Care. I had to appeal to the Higher Court and won. I got a new appeal from which I got Medium rate Care and high Mobility. It was worth the effort but took 18 months from start to finish. This would have also applied to any PIP appeal.

The morale is that if you appeal you risk losing whatever you have got.

TK

Debbie1234

Hi Topkitten
thanks for valued advice. I think I am going to leave my award as it is. It renews in 3 years and next time I will be better prepared on how to fill out the forms and collect evidence etc....
I think the whole process is discriminating and degrading. It is so sad ? I felt like a criminal on trial when I was having my phone assessment. I have worked hard all my life. The thing with the British nature is to downplay problems with our stiff upper lip. Saying we are fine when we are dying inside and out. Many people know this, so surely when we do turn to our system/government for help they should acknowledge how incredibly difficult it is.

poppy123456

@Username_removed i thought they warn you if there was any risk of losing an existing award, which means there's not really any risk? Or did i just dream that? -scratches head- confused.

Topkitten

@mikehughescq, judges on appeal boards do not always follow strict rules of even common sense. Why did I lose my award and have to go further? Her words at the tribunal were "I am not here to award you a free car". Not in any sense of the word is a Motability car "free" and it takes time and effort to get the right one with correct adaptions etc. However, in her "Statement of Reasons" there were all sorts of silly and stupid mistakes, some of which were not even from my case. Her real reason was pure bigotry and nonsense. Whilst these judges are supposed to be sensible and impartial, human beings are simply not made that way, so never assume that common sense will prevail, sometimes you just get an idiot to judge your appeal and even one member of the tribunal team can spoil any carefully prepared case.

Life isn't fair so don't expect it to be.

TK

Topkitten

@mikehughescq, tribunals are made up of 3 people (which you should know) however, the judge generally chooses their own members and, human nature being what it is, they tend to pick people who share their views or who make their life easier.

I was aware of the risk (I never said I wasn't) but the reward was so inconsequential it was a risk I accepted. Then the judge who was supposed to provide the SoR withing 10 weeks (at that time) took 6 months to provide it. This SoR was sent to the Higher Court where the "Clerk to the Higher Court" (not the court itself) overturned her decision (because it was obviously a fabrication) and awarded me another appeal date. Judges should not be made aware that such a process was invoked (in case it reflects in their own decision) but, by the new judges comments, she was obviously well aware that I had appealed the appeal. My biggest problem with all this was the fact that a process which should have been done in half the time took 18 months to finally get a decision and that was back when things went a lot faster than they do now. Such a delay, for most people, would make life extremely difficult even though it simply came down to a personal bias.

Decisions should be, in an ideal world, made by the panel but this particular judge was well known in the area by other professionals as making the decisions herself and the panel would go along. We do not live in anything even closely resembling an ideal world.

I didn't, at any point, bring up anything about a car but I was upset and stated loud enough to be heard by the panel that I was being made housebound unnecessarily. The judges interpretation was entirely her own idea.

The final part of your post is preposterous. How can you assess ANY risk without considering a poorly thought out presentation as the capabilities of whomever helps a disabled person will vary greatly. That's one of the most ludicrous statements I have ever heard! As for the "murder" comment, try sticking to the point and not wandering off wherever you feel like.

This particular judge was well known for her opinion by all the people who helped with claims and appeals. A lady from the CAB stated that, according to this judge, you were only disabled if you stopped breathing.

Another relevant point is that when appeals are allocated the same judge is not allowed to pick their cases and should never appear in an appeal for someone they had presided over before. However, for all 3 of my appeals I was allocated the same panel.

[Removed by moderator - please keep the community guidelines in mind]

I have nothing more to say on this subject except to repeat that a person should take into account ALL factors and not those who think we live in an ideal world where law is law and no one involved in it makes mistakes, they do ALL the time but (like doctors) protect each other from trouble.

TK

Debbie1234

Good morning MikeHughes and Topkitten ?
sorry for the late reply, I had a restless sleep last night and I have just got up. (Loads of nightmares to do with being at court over the pip)
I really do appreciate both your comments as I can try and consider what to do now. I don't feel so alone with this website and I can get other people's views. If I do get a chance to keep my daily standard living if things don't go my way, I really do want to fight their decision. Especially as I have backing from my doctors etc.... even if they award me lower rate mobility it will at least help towards the upkeep of my car. Because on my better days I can go out my back door with my daughter and get into my car and have a little drive. I hate it when they has for good days lol.... because since 2008 and being severely sexually attacked and run over I have never had a good day if that makes sense. I have very bad days and bad to moderate days. I find the people I have spoken to from dwp very patronising and not empathic. (Apart from one elderly lady)

I am going to try and go for it ?
I will let you know how I get on.

I am due back pay from June 4th soon, do I phone up to cancel that and tell them I am appealing?

poppy123456

@Debbie1234 your existing award will continue to be paid while you're waiting for the MR decision and this includes any backdated money you receive.