Can I appeal only the daily living side of PIP? — Scope | Disability forum
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Can I appeal only the daily living side of PIP?

davies89
davies89 Member Posts: 2 Listener
edited August 2018 in PIP, DLA, and AA
Hi, my partner has recently had a face to face for PIP. He has COPD and is on a lot of medication for it. He is also on medication for anxiety/depression. He was awarded enhanced mobility but was not awarded daily living side of it. I have already been through the mandatory appeal but has still been refused for it. He is unable to dress or undress himself, cook his own food and has to be prompted to eat and I have to physically give him his medication or he will not take it. Can I appeal only the daily living side without the mobility side being looked at again? I had to give up work due to my partners health and also have 2 children look after. Any help and advice will be much appreciated. Thanks.
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Comments

  • Matilda
    Matilda Member Posts: 2,610 Disability Gamechanger
    The tribunal will look at both components.
  • Pippa_Alumni
    Pippa_Alumni Scope alumni Posts: 5,798 Disability Gamechanger
    Hi @davies89, and a warm welcome to the community!

    Thanks for sharing this with us- sorry to hear your MR wasn't successful. As @Matilda says, the tribunal would look at both components, not just one. If you do decide to appeal, you may like to check out Scope's guidance on appealing DWP decisions to help you prepare. Hope this helps, and do keep us updated!


  • mikehughescq
    mikehughescq Posts: 8,845 Connected
    Very important to get face to face advice on this scenario as it’s the only way to accurately weigh up what risk, if any, there is to your existing component. You can in fact make it clear that you want to focus on the one component but nothing binds a tribunal to do that. Some, having previewed the papers, will declare at the outset that they are happy with the component already awarded.
  • davies89
    davies89 Member Posts: 2 Listener
    @Pippa_Scope thank you for getting back to me. It's really frustrating as he was awarded it before for 3 years and I was able to get carers. It's just annoying as his condition as worsened throughout the years and needs care now more than ever. He got points for me having to cook, bathe him and help him socialise with other people. It's a bit of a contradiction as I have to undress him to get into the bath and dress him when he is out. Without me being there to dress him he would not be able to attend doctors appointments or bath ect. 
  • Topkitten
    Topkitten Member Posts: 1,285 Pioneering
    The award is classed as a "decision" and you can appeal the decision as a whole but not part of it. You have to chance losing what you have in order to get what you think is fair.

    Get advice from the CAB and anyone else in your area that you can think of. You will definitely need advice on how to apply for the appeal and on what basis you think it should be challenged.

    Whilst we all imagine we are worse than others, they have other cases to compare them too when people have well known problems, despite the fact that everyone responds differently. I presume they are not supposed to do this but it almost certainly will happen 

    I imagine your caring for him is part of the problem or at least their excuse for it. Family caring is given far less weight than having actual carers come in to do it.

    You have some difficult decisions to make but I hope things go well for you.

    TK
    "I'm on the wrong side of heaven and the righteous side of hell" - from Wrong side of heaven by Five Finger Death Punch.
  • Matilda
    Matilda Member Posts: 2,610 Disability Gamechanger
    @davies89

    Many assessors' reports and consequently DWP decisions are of poor quality, factually inaccurate, which is why 71% of appeals succeed.  As long as you think the current award is safe from reduction, it's worth appealing.  My appeal increased my award from standard to enhanced both components.

    You have been given advice above.  Also, Disability Rights UK site (DRUK) has  a good guide to PIP appeals.  And they publish a Handbook that gives a detailed outline of PIP appeal hearings procedure.  £18.50 from DRUK site or probably available in your local reference library.

    The first stage of appeal is to ask for a mandatory reconsideration (MR).

    advice now.org.uk/pip-tool will generate an MR submission letter.
  • Debbie1234
    Debbie1234 Member Posts: 83 Courageous
    Hi ? 
    I am just wondering how you got on with your appeal? I am in a similar position. I got awarded standard rate (11points) & mobility (4points) I totally disagree with the mobility part. My doctor has stated I get severe panic attacks and I can't go out unaccompanied, yet they only gave me 4 points. Which comes under, I need encouraging to go out. Please help me if you can
  • poppy123456
    poppy123456 Member Posts: 28,450 Disability Gamechanger
    Hi ? 
    I am just wondering how you got on with your appeal? I am in a similar position. I got awarded standard rate (11points) & mobility (4points) I totally disagree with the mobility part. My doctor has stated I get severe panic attacks and I can't go out unaccompanied, yet they only gave me 4 points. Which comes under, I need encouraging to go out. Please help me if you can

    Hi,

    This thread is 2 years old and the original poster hasn't returned in all that time, so they may not answer you. Although i can see from their post that they did receive Enhanced mobility, which is different to your claim.

    My opinion is needing prompting to go out for your reason then 4 points is the correct award.
  • Debbie1234
    Debbie1234 Member Posts: 83 Courageous
    Thank you for the reply ?
    I personally think I should of come under "can not undertake a familiar journey without being unaccompanied" 12 points 
    to give you an example, in 4 months I have managed to leave the house twice with my husband. My doctor allowed my daughter to come to the surgery with me under the covid 19 restrictions because I am so agoraphobic and won't go out alone.

  • Debbie1234
    Debbie1234 Member Posts: 83 Courageous
    Accompanied * sorry that's what I meant
  • poppy123456
    poppy123456 Member Posts: 28,450 Disability Gamechanger
    edited August 2020
    Then your GP just stating that you have severe panic attacks isn't enough. A GP will very rarely know how our conditions affect us because they spend very little time with us. They will only know something, if you tell them and this isn't evidence. You need to state why you can't go out alone, what happened the last time you attempted to go out alone, who seen it and where you were you when it happened. Anecdotal evidence is always the best.
  • Debbie1234
    Debbie1234 Member Posts: 83 Courageous
    Thank you so much. In my MR letter the DM states that my gp admits I can't go out alone and the reasons etc..,, also that I have accute/severe panic attacks 3-4 times a week. She has put me on a list for therapy and put me on medication. I really don't know what to do. I have been on esa support group for 12 years and never had to go for a work assessment. Filling pip forms every 2 years is making me really suicidal again. I suffer complex post traumatic stress and having to keep looking on my very bad days is really distressing and disturbing. 

  • Debbie1234
    Debbie1234 Member Posts: 83 Courageous
    My daughter also sent a letter to confirm how I had a major panic attack with her etc.... a very detailed letter.
    i had 2 points for daily and 0 for mobility before I sent off for my MR. I just don't know wether to appeal also for a longer period 
  • Debbie1234
    Debbie1234 Member Posts: 83 Courageous
    Thank you for all your advice though, it is much appreciated 
  • Topkitten
    Topkitten Member Posts: 1,285 Pioneering
    This has probably been covered already but I went through this so I'll comment.

    My third attempt to get DLA granted the lowest rate of Care and no Mobility. I appealed and not only did I not get Mobility they also took away the Care. I had to appeal to the Higher Court and won. I got a new appeal from which I got Medium rate Care and high Mobility. It was worth the effort but took 18 months from start to finish. This would have also applied to any PIP appeal.

    The morale is that if you appeal you risk losing whatever you have got.

    TK
    "I'm on the wrong side of heaven and the righteous side of hell" - from Wrong side of heaven by Five Finger Death Punch.
  • Debbie1234
    Debbie1234 Member Posts: 83 Courageous
    Hi Topkitten
    thanks for valued advice. I think I am going to leave my award as it is. It renews in 3 years and next time I will be better prepared on how to fill out the forms and collect evidence etc....
    I think the whole process is discriminating and degrading. It is so sad ? I felt like a criminal on trial when I was having my phone assessment. I have worked hard all my life. The thing with the British nature is to downplay problems with our stiff upper lip. Saying we are fine when we are dying inside and out. Many people know this, so surely when we do turn to our system/government for help they should acknowledge how incredibly difficult it is. 

  • mikehughescq
    mikehughescq Posts: 8,845 Connected
    Topkitten said:

    The morale is that if you appeal you risk losing whatever you have got.

    TK
    This then is what professional advice and representation is for. 

    Is there a risk? Always. 

    How big is that risk? It will vary. 

    In a few cases it is very real but that’s usually only where perhaps the evidence didn’t necessarily support an award in the first place. In many cases that risk is negligible. If an adviser can assess that risk - not possible online - then a balanced judgement can be made. 
  • poppy123456
    poppy123456 Member Posts: 28,450 Disability Gamechanger
    @mikehughescq i thought they warn you if there was any risk of losing an existing award, which means there's not really any risk? Or did i just dream that? -scratches head- confused.
  • mikehughescq
    mikehughescq Posts: 8,845 Connected
    Yes there is always the on the day warning too but ideally you want an assessment of risk at an earlier stage. 

    I repeatedly come across people put off appealing because they’ve been told there’s a risk. By itself that is irresponsible and misleading. There is always a risk. The real question is how big is it. 

    Top of my head and this year alone I can think of someone put off pursuing a supersession because DWP and friends said there was a risk. All the DL points awarded at that point were for aids still in use. There’s no way you’re going to lose those other than through gross incompetence so the risk there would literally be nil. So it proved. 

    I can think of someone told 3 times over a long period that a challenge carried the risk of losing what they had so the claimant didn’t pursue it. The points they eventually scored were the highest I have ever achieved by some distance. The risk was again effectively nil but the poor advice x3 has literally cost them thousands of pounds in lost benefit. 

    I fully appreciate that advice from the likes of @Topkitten and indeed others comes from a good place but the fact there is a risk is both indisputable but also irrelevant. The only question about risk is... how real is the risk? Often it is not real at all. 
  • Topkitten
    Topkitten Member Posts: 1,285 Pioneering
    @mikehughescq, judges on appeal boards do not always follow strict rules of even common sense. Why did I lose my award and have to go further? Her words at the tribunal were "I am not here to award you a free car". Not in any sense of the word is a Motability car "free" and it takes time and effort to get the right one with correct adaptions etc. However, in her "Statement of Reasons" there were all sorts of silly and stupid mistakes, some of which were not even from my case. Her real reason was pure bigotry and nonsense. Whilst these judges are supposed to be sensible and impartial, human beings are simply not made that way, so never assume that common sense will prevail, sometimes you just get an idiot to judge your appeal and even one member of the tribunal team can spoil any carefully prepared case.

    Life isn't fair so don't expect it to be.

    TK
    "I'm on the wrong side of heaven and the righteous side of hell" - from Wrong side of heaven by Five Finger Death Punch.
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