PIP, DLA and AA
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Support filling out PIP form, can I get it extended?

connor123connor123 Member Posts: 20 Listener
edited August 2018 in PIP, DLA and AA
hi all, i have mental health issues and suffering benzo.withdrawal syndrome,i have been putting off filling in my pip review forms as i dont know where to start and it needs to be in by 28/8..i have no family to help me and i am reluctant to seek help from cab/age concern etc as i have very bad social phobia.if i phone them up to request extra time due to this making me really ill will they hold it against me the fact i am able to make phone call /fill out the forms myself as i have no choice?.i dont know where to turn i feel as though this might tip me over the edge.please could someone give me some advise please many thanks connor

Replies

  • Ami2301Ami2301 Community champion Posts: 7,147 Disability Gamechanger
    Hi @connor123
    I know it's easier said than done but take deep breaths :)
    Majority of the community have had to fill out these forms and it's frustrating! We all will help you anyway we can :)
    Ami :)
    Community Champion
    Disability Gamechanger - 2019
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 5,351 Disability Gamechanger
    No, it will not be held against you at all and getting an extension is as simple as making the call. 

    In terms of form filling and extensions the following may help.

    1 - Identify those activities you have any kind of issue with.

    2 - Identify whether the issue is that you can’t do the activity at all; can’t do it reliably, can’t do it repeatedly; can’t do it safely or in a reasonable time. If any one of these apply to an activity then you can’t do it at all and it’s okay to say so. However, as well as ticking the box saying you either can’t do it all need help or aids, remember to say which one(s) of the above apply.

    3 - have a copy of the PIP points scoring system in front of you. The questions in the form don’t match the points scoring so it’s as well to be aware of this.

    4 - For every activity you think you score points you need to think of 2 or 3 recent examples of incidents when you tried to do that activity. Describe in detail the what, when, where, who witnessed, what happened next etc. Don’t skimp on detail. It’s often better to type it up in Word first rather than write in the form. If it won’t fit then add extra sheets, remembering to put your name, NINO and the question to which the answer relates on each sheet. Alternatively, reduce the font and cut and paste the Word answer into the form.

    5 - Use the extra information section to describe your conditions  in detail; the specifics of the symptoms and especially how they interact. 

    Also use it to spell out that you want an ongoing award and explain why e.g. your condition is degenerative, you’ve done all the adapting you’re going to do etc. If you don’t specifically ask for an ongoing award you will get a short one. 

    6 - Assuming your diagnoses are not in question and ditto the prognosis then ask yourself what gap in your evidence does medical evidence fill in terms of points scoring? If you can’t answer that then consider not sending it in. 10 reports all saying the same thing are no better than 1. Volume doesn’t win you PIP. Clarity and focus does.

    7 - Whilst PIP ask for the form back in 4 weeks they will grant a 2 week extension without question if you ask. However, there is no actual deadline in the legislation as the deadline can be extended if reasonable and what could be more reasonable than having a medical condition which slows you down. Ask for an extension as a reasonable adjustment under EA 10 if applicable. 

    8 - By all means get an advice service to do this but if they don’t do most of the above then you’re better off doing it yourself. 

  • YadnadYadnad Member - under moderation Posts: 2,862 Disability Gamechanger
    edited August 2018
    Damn good advice.
    Unfortunately it is easier said than done.

    When I filled the PIP2 forms out I started with great gusto but by the time I made it halfway through it became harder and harder. The little voice in the head kept saying - just fill what you can, until the form finished off with boxes being ticked and that was it.
    To be honest you need to be able to really delve into everything which in itself is depressing time consuming and draining

    The very same reasons that I looked at the Attendance Allowance form and thought 'no way - not again'. In a way I was thankful that I didn't need to fill it in as I clearly did not fit the requirements of that benefit - not disabled enough and too many aids that help me out.
  • connor123connor123 Member Posts: 20 Listener
    yes i agree yadnab i feel like just throwing the towel in i have not got the strenth to fight this battle 
  • YadnadYadnad Member - under moderation Posts: 2,862 Disability Gamechanger
    connor123 said:
    yes i agree yadnab i feel like just throwing the towel in i have not got the strenth to fight this battle 
    Know how you feel, really do.
  • Peasmold_01Peasmold_01 Member Posts: 144 Pioneering
    As they say in the county in which I live "Hold you 'ard boy". There is help out there to fill in the forms. Not a great fan, however, Citizens Advice will help you. Look for a local support group for your particular situation. I will reiterate this. Look for a local Community Law Centre. Seek help from your local councils Social Services. Give up, and the system wins!!!! Remember this little aphorism: 
     "Illegitimi non carborundum"

                            (Man is the only animal that blushes, or needs to!)
  • YadnadYadnad Member - under moderation Posts: 2,862 Disability Gamechanger
    As they say in the county in which I live "Hold you 'ard boy". There is help out there to fill in the forms. Not a great fan, however, Citizens Advice will help you. Look for a local support group for your particular situation. I will reiterate this. Look for a local Community Law Centre. Seek help from your local councils Social Services. Give up, and the system wins!!!! Remember this little aphorism: 
     "Illegitimi non carborundum"

                            (Man is the only animal that blushes, or needs to!)
    As reported on the other thread, the advice agencies etc are either too busy, too far a way or no longer deal with benefit issues. Council - the department closed down, Social Services - you have to be an ongoing case for social care.

    Giving up does not mean the system wins, generally it is the claimant that wins by not having to suffer what the system throws at you at an age (70) when all you want is a bit of' peace for the few years that are left.
  • MatildaMatilda Member Posts: 2,616 Disability Gamechanger
    edited August 2018
    Phone DWP and ask for an extension : say you have to get help to fill in the form.  They'll give you two extra weeks.

    Disability Rights UK site has a good guide to completing PIP forms.  You could also phone Scope Helpline.  
  • desableddesabled Member Posts: 8 Listener
    why are Kent county council so unhelpful and incompetent the oter week govt. said they'd be cutting out constant assessment next thin i know an esa50 form hits the doormat you can't believe a word they say
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 5,351 Disability Gamechanger
    edited August 2018
    Yadnad said:
    Damn good advice.
    Unfortunately it is easier said than done.

    When I filled the PIP2 forms out I started with great gusto but by the time I made it halfway through it became harder and harder. The little voice in the head kept saying - just fill what you can, until the form finished off with boxes being ticked and that was it.
    To be honest you need to be able to really delve into everything which in itself is depressing time consuming and draining

    The very same reasons that I looked at the Attendance Allowance form and thought 'no way - not again'. In a way I was thankful that I didn't need to fill it in as I clearly did not fit the requirements of that benefit - not disabled enough and too many aids that help me out.
    Precisely why there’s no date enshrined in law for when the form has to be returned and extensions are straightforward to obtain.
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 5,351 Disability Gamechanger
    desabled said:
    why are Kent county council so unhelpful and incompetent the oter week govt. said they'd be cutting out constant assessment next thin i know an esa50 form hits the doormat you can't believe a word they say
    Not quite sure what the connection is between Kent, DWP and an ESA 50?
  • Peasmold_01Peasmold_01 Member Posts: 144 Pioneering
    I was offering an insight into what is possible if one cares to look. I was not saying that all the possibilities I propounded were universally available  what I suggested was looking for available help and advice from any source. It is a lonely world when one has to fight the system, but I am also nearly 70, and the one thing I have learnt in life, never give up. The system is not just flawed it is broken. The reason, we as a country allowed this to happen. Individually we may be able to satisfy our own needs and concerns, but together, perhaps we can change an unfair system. We are the minority, or are we?
    We live all over the country. We all have experience and knowledge that we can and should share. One person's experience is another's first step on an unknown path. Think locally, think what you may be able to offer, in support, experience and knowledge of the system, to another who is in the same position you were or may still be in  (Perhaps I'm preaching to the converted) but  you may never know, the forum member who has posted a message lives just up the road, across the street. Perhaps a friendly piece of information a supportive cup of tea, may just be the difference between feeling alone when trying to fight the system, or feeling valued and worthwhile. I'm not preaching, I'm suggesting a possibility  
    (Humans are the only animals that blush, or need to!) 
  • YadnadYadnad Member - under moderation Posts: 2,862 Disability Gamechanger
    desabled said:
    why are Kent county council so unhelpful and incompetent the oter week govt. said they'd be cutting out constant assessment next thin i know an esa50 form hits the doormat you can't believe a word they say
    What on earth does KCC have to do with a re-assessment of your ESA?
  • BenefitsTrainingCoBenefitsTrainingCo Member Posts: 2,692 Pioneering
    connor123,

    Just to add to what others have said, if you need an extension it's fairly easy to request - one of the easier bits of the whole process. I completely agree with all Mike's tips - you can find the PIP descriptors in various places, but one option is to use the PIP self-test to see what you think you should score (bearing in mind all Mike's points about safety, repeatability, the standard to which you can do something and how long it takes you). 

    When it comes to getting help, unfortunately it really does depend where you live and what is on offer. For example, where I live, the disability advice centre is great and will make you an appointment to help you fill in your form, usually within 2 weeks of getting in touch. However, in other areas, they may not offer this service, or if they do you have to wait. But having said all that, it sounds as if it would be very hard for you to make use of their services, because they would almost certainly want to help you fill in the form face to face, and that sounds as if it would be very difficult. 

    Having said all that, definitely don't worry about ringing up - that will not be held against you, and you should get the extension you need. Be clear about what the new date is and give yourself plenty of time to respond. It doesn't all have to be done in one go. Good luck!

    Will
    The Benefits Training Co:
    Paul Bradley
    Michael Chambers
    Will Hadwen
    Sarah Hayle
    Maria Solomon
    David Stickland
  • YadnadYadnad Member - under moderation Posts: 2,862 Disability Gamechanger
    edited August 2018

    Precisely why there’s no date enshrined in law for when the form has to be returned and extensions are straightforward to obtain.
    Another thing that I didn't know. This then begs the question as to why then does the DWP close the claim down if the PIP2 isn't returned on time?
    However I think I know the answer to that question. I believe that there is legislation that allows this to happen. Whilst there may be nothing specific to PIP there is the all inclusive regulation that if the DWP request information they do so and are entitled to, close a claim if after the 30 days given the request goes unanswered.

    In the dim and distant past - 2009 - I failed to comply with a request for further information within 30 days. I couldn't comply (they were asking for information that I could not readily give) and soon after the 30 days had elapsed they closed down my Pension Credit claim that had be ongoing with no benefit being awarded for over 6 months. I had to wait until the information became available and had to start a completely new claim. When this was awarded I was not awarded anything for the previous 9 months from when the first claim was made until when the second claim was made. The loss to me was well in excess of £1900 + £1500 of lost help towards the mortgage.
    So you are probably right but the DWP will find a way of getting around that situation.
  • YadnadYadnad Member - under moderation Posts: 2,862 Disability Gamechanger
    I was offering an insight into what is possible if one cares to look. I was not saying that all the possibilities I propounded were universally available  what I suggested was looking for available help and advice from any source. It is a lonely world when one has to fight the system, but I am also nearly 70, and the one thing I have learnt in life, never give up. The system is not just flawed it is broken. The reason, we as a country allowed this to happen. Individually we may be able to satisfy our own needs and concerns, but together, perhaps we can change an unfair system. We are the minority, or are we?
    We live all over the country. We all have experience and knowledge that we can and should share. One person's experience is another's first step on an unknown path. Think locally, think what you may be able to offer, in support, experience and knowledge of the system, to another who is in the same position you were or may still be in  (Perhaps I'm preaching to the converted) but  you may never know, the forum member who has posted a message lives just up the road, across the street. Perhaps a friendly piece of information a supportive cup of tea, may just be the difference between feeling alone when trying to fight the system, or feeling valued and worthwhile. I'm not preaching, I'm suggesting a possibility  
    (Humans are the only animals that blush, or need to!) 
    You don't by any means belong to a well known religious order that annoys me nearly every Saturday morning?

    Helping others is OK if it is on a subject that I can easily understand or deal with. I help many people each week but thankfully I have the backing of a whole range of professionals behind me that I can call on. But when it comes to matters involving the DWP I am well out of my depth. I can't communicate with them myself without having the feeling of anger rise up in me when they appear to be so dismissive of everything I ask of them. At one time it was said that the Tax Return was probably the most difficult form for the average person to fill in - they want to try the ones the DWP print! 
  • connor123connor123 Member Posts: 20 Listener
    does anyone know if my assessor/dm will have knowledge of the benzo.withdrawal syndrome?its just i feel i could go on forever describing my symptoms and i would prefer to keep it to a minimum. many thanks connor

  • pjakpjak Member Posts: 9 Listener
    My CAB had a person who knew about this form and she helped me to complete it and l was given an award.
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    connor123 said:
    does anyone know if my assessor/dm will have knowledge of the benzo.withdrawal syndrome?its just i feel i could go on forever describing my symptoms and i would prefer to keep it to a minimum. many thanks connor

    PIP isn't about a diagnosis, it's how your conditions affect you daily. You should answer those questions with as much detail as possible because they're trying to get a picture of how your conditions affect you. 
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • YadnadYadnad Member - under moderation Posts: 2,862 Disability Gamechanger
    pjak said:
    My CAB had a person who knew about this form and she helped me to complete it and l was given an award.
    It should be the case that all advisors within the CAB that are dedicated to deal with benefits should have had training.
  • YadnadYadnad Member - under moderation Posts: 2,862 Disability Gamechanger
    edited August 2018

    PIP isn't about a diagnosis, it's how your conditions affect you daily. You should answer those questions with as much detail as possible because they're trying to get a picture of how your conditions affect you. 
    I agree, that is the intention. But the question I would ask is if the assessor has no idea about the condition how can they be in a position to justify that the level of impact claimed is reasonable and in line with what would be expected of someone who is suffering from that condition?

    It's no different if an assessor, a physiotherapist, is questioning someone who has frontal lobe impairment.what would they expect to see in respect of the impact caused by that damage. Either they will have to take the word of the claimant or do some considerable reading up of the likely symptoms that are said to be causing the impact claimed. 

    Or maybe they do what the decision makers did - Google it.
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 5,351 Disability Gamechanger
    Yadnad said:

    Precisely why there’s no date enshrined in law for when the form has to be returned and extensions are straightforward to obtain.
    Another thing that I didn't know. This then begs the question as to why then does the DWP close the claim down if the PIP2 isn't returned on time?
    However I think I know the answer to that question. I believe that there is legislation that allows this to happen. Whilst there may be nothing specific to PIP there is the all inclusive regulation that if the DWP request information they do so and are entitled to, close a claim if after the 30 days given the request goes unanswered.
    Looks like Sunday is myth busting day :)

    Had to remind a colleague in work about this early last week. There are two different sets of rules. One for evidence required to make a claim and one for additional evidence requested by a decision maker. In both cases they can set a date but if the date is not complied with they only have the power to extend the date or to make a decision on entitlement. Doing the latter gives you a right to an MR. There is no power to simply close a claim and there never has been. Both DWP and LAs repeatedly do this but it’s always been wrong. Most recent example was a HB case at the start of August - CH/25/2018. Same applies if you ask to shut down a claim. DWP et al will generally do it. They have literally no power in law to do it at all. It has to be a supersession and there must be grounds.

  • YadnadYadnad Member - under moderation Posts: 2,862 Disability Gamechanger
    edited August 2018



    Another thing that I didn't know. This then begs the question as to why then does the DWP close the claim down if the PIP2 isn't returned on time?
    However I think I know the answer to that question. I believe that there is legislation that allows this to happen. Whilst there may be nothing specific to PIP there is the all inclusive regulation that if the DWP request information they do so and are entitled to, close a claim if after the 30 days given the request goes unanswered.
    Looks like Sunday is myth busting day :)

    Had to remind a colleague in work about this early last week. There are two different sets of rules. One for evidence required to make a claim and one for additional evidence requested by a decision maker. In both cases they can set a date but if the date is not complied with they only have the power to extend the date or to make a decision on entitlement. Doing the latter gives you a right to an MR. There is no power to simply close a claim and there never has been. Both DWP and LAs repeatedly do this but it’s always been wrong. Most recent example was a HB case at the start of August - CH/25/2018. Same applies if you ask to shut down a claim. DWP et al will generally do it. They have literally no power in law to do it at all. It has to be a supersession and there must be grounds.

    Sorry Mike to keep attacking your brain.
    The dirty little bbbbbb..lighters!

    This action took place before MR so it could have gone to appeal.
    I specifically asked the Pension Service why they had done it - in fact it was a rather heated discussion. They told me in clear terms that I had the chance to give the information within the time frame and chose not to....After a few more words of wisdom from me... I said that I will appeal against the closing of the claim and their reply was that it wasn't a decision that I could appeal and that if I wanted to pursue the claim I would have to make a new one.

    Absolutely ridiculous that you cannot trust or expect the DWP to give a genuine honest answer. It's clearly a case of not having the expertise or available advisor 
    to tell me otherwise at the time - another £3400 they owe me on top of the £20,000+ I got fiddled out of for the IIDB claim.
  • connor123connor123 Member Posts: 20 Listener
    my condition has not changed much since my original claim, is it ok to more or less repeat myself in the review form?as i thinkthis would be easier for me.many thanks connor 
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 5,351 Disability Gamechanger
    Did your first form succeed first go? If not, then no. If it did, then yes.
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