PIP, DLA and AA
If this is your first visit, check out the community guide. You will have to Join us or Sign in before you can post.

Totally Untrue Assessment.

John483John483 Member Posts: 4 Listener
Hi there
I’m new here and seek advice. I have been on DLA for about 10 or more years and have now been transferred onto PIP. I suffer with Fibromyalgia, Osteoarthritis, Sleep Apnea, Prostate problems, suffered a brain aneurysm and Diabetes type 2. I am 69 years old. I informed PIP that my condition had worsened as instructed and had my benefit cut and my motability car taken away from me, I appealed three times and was told to appeal to a tribunal BUT because I am over 65 years would not get an increase so no point appealing. They stated I was able to walk over 20 metres, not true, the assessor never asked me to walk anywhere just commented that I could get off a chair, I cannot walk safely at all and use a crutch to move about. They said I was fully capable to drive as my legs and mind were active, not true, I have to have an automatic car which due to the fact my PIP has been reduced I have had to purchase a car and to get an automatic is very expensive. I am fully aware that I have lost my battle and the moral of the story is don’t inform them that your condition has worsened as you are likely to have your benefits cut. Has anybody else been put in this position.

Replies

  • selkieselkie Member Posts: 9 Listener
    I am SO sorry this has happened to you but thank you for your timely warning. How kind of you to think of others 
  • MatildaMatilda Member Posts: 2,616 Disability Gamechanger
    If you were only awarded standard, or nothing, a tribunal could award you enhanced both components even if you are over 65.  Aged 68, I had to transfer from DLA to PIP and was awarded standard both components.  Tribunal increased my award to enhanced both components.

    If you think your current award is safe it's worth appealing as 71% of appeals succeed.
  • John483John483 Member Posts: 4 Listener
    They told me I was too old to have my award increased so I don’t need the hassle of a tribunal, that doesn’t worry me as I have dealt with judges, solicitors etc. having been a police officer. I just feel it is wrong to advise me to go to a tribunal and then say I can’t have my PIP reinstated to enhanced rate
  • Chloe_ScopeChloe_Scope Scope Posts: 10,652 Disability Gamechanger
    Hi @John483, welcome to the community! Thank you for taking the time to share this with us all. I am really sorry to hear about your situation. When on PIP you cannot make a new claim once you hit 65, but can continue to receive the benefit if the claims was made earlier. Your award also cannot increase once you reach the age of 65. For example, if you received lower mobility when you were 64 years old, you would never be able to receive the higher rate- if  this makes sense!  
    Community Partner
    Scope

    Tell us what you think?
    Complete our feedback form to help us to improve your community.
  • John483John483 Member Posts: 4 Listener
    Yes Chloe but I was on higher rate mobility until September last year when I was 68 but they reduced it when I informed them of my increasing bad health so basically they have craftily manipulated my claim to suit them ie :- last year enhanced mobility PIP Now lower rate. 
  • jane1973jane1973 Member Posts: 175 Pioneering
    Hi @John483 i lost my pip due to the assessor saying if i can drive my car i dont need pip its the only thing that made me able to go to doctors or chemist once a week how so so unfair this all is 
    Hugz to everyone xx
  • Chloe_ScopeChloe_Scope Scope Posts: 10,652 Disability Gamechanger
    I'm really sorry to hear this @John483! It may be worth contacting Citizens Advice, I wish you the very best of luck!
    Community Partner
    Scope

    Tell us what you think?
    Complete our feedback form to help us to improve your community.
  • YadnadYadnad Posts: 2,856 Member
    edited September 2018
    jane1973 said:
    Hi @John483 i lost my pip due to the assessor saying if i can drive my car i dont need pip its the only thing that made me able to go to doctors or chemist once a week how so so unfair this all is 
    That old chestnut is used regularly.
    Can/do you drive?
    Yes
    Given the fact that you can drive and you are able to use those mental and physical skills to drive you no longer fit any of the descriptors!




  • MatildaMatilda Member Posts: 2,616 Disability Gamechanger
    @john483

    You could have your PIP reinstated to enhanced at tribunal.  I did, aged 68.  You were misinformed. Who told you a tribunal couldn't increase your award?
  • John483John483 Member Posts: 4 Listener
    I wasn’t told they couldn’t increase award I was told that as I’m over 65 years I can’t get my benefit increased as they would class it as a fresh application. I believe they are wrong but I’m too fearful to rock boat in case I lose the lot
  • MatildaMatilda Member Posts: 2,616 Disability Gamechanger
    If your PIP mobility was reduced after reassessment to then go to appeal is not a new claim, it is still the same claim as you are just appealing a decision, not making a new claim.  As others have said, speak to CAB.

    If you think your current award is safe it's worth appealing.
  • jane1973jane1973 Member Posts: 175 Pioneering
    @Yadnad my car is the only way i get out once a week to fetch my own medication and its not a mobility car, its a little car i had to get myself to work and to lose that last bit of independence would mean me not going anywhere if the case is that i shouldnt drive then i dont know why others have mobility cars, its to keep them as independant as possible surely, i just want to keep my little car to keep my bit of independance 
    Hugz to everyone xx
  • MatildaMatilda Member Posts: 2,616 Disability Gamechanger
    @jane1973

    Are you going to appeal?
  • jane1973jane1973 Member Posts: 175 Pioneering
    @Matilda yes i am waiting for a date for tribunal , i also complained to capita about the asessor but they camnot do anything about what she put in my report the only thing they could do was to remind the asessor that its not nice to walk into a clients home smelling of smoke
    Hugz to everyone xx
  • jane1973jane1973 Member Posts: 175 Pioneering
    What gets me though is i say she was untrue in my report and added things in which then the dwp ended my pip but yet she admitted to smoking in her car before my apointment because she cannot deny she smokes but yet can get away with putting allsorts in my report has any one else had to struggle with this? Its wrong
    Hugz to everyone xx
  • jane1973jane1973 Member Posts: 175 Pioneering
    I was a witness in a crown court case 21 years ago and i was cross examined and there was a jury it was awfull and its the same feeling fighting to get whats right and having someone tell lies
    Hugz to everyone xx
  • TopkittenTopkitten Member Posts: 1,263 Pioneering
    The use of a car is often thought to imply certain abilities which, for the medically informed, are simply not true. An active and intelligent mind does not mean you are not disabled after all. Unfortunately, for the average person it does and driving implies certain abilities. Someone told me to my face that if I can drive then I can't be disabled. I just called them an idiot and ignored them. I do worry that it came up in my f2f but, as I explained to her, my pain is caused by nerve movement within the spine and there is a lot less movement just moving a foot rather than both complete legs when trying to walk. I also explained that I extensively use satnav to go anywhere and cruise control whenever possible plus drove an automatic to avoid gear changing. Another thing I explained was my inability to use taxi's or public transport due to collapsing into a panic attack whenever I have tried. I am still worried about the subject having come up but I don't lie, not even white lies. Openness and honesty will always be my mainstay no matter how many times it causes me problems.

    TK
    "I'm on the wrong side of heaven and the righteous side of hell" - from Wrong side of heaven by Five Finger Death Punch.
  • jane1973jane1973 Member Posts: 175 Pioneering
    @Topkitten I feel very similar to you as I cannot use public transport my little old car is like an extension to my safe home bubble I feel like no one can judge me in my safe bubbles I am clinging onto my car as that’s what the norm is for me and I don’t want to accept that I am a failure at yet something else so to look out the window and see my car makes me feel better even if it’s a 5 minute ride once a week to be able to pick up my meds myself it gives me that tiny bit of independence that I don’t want to give up just yet but the dwp want to take that tiny bit away by taking away my pip but I’m going to appeal so I will fight back for that tiny bit of independence after all it is called personal independence payments  
    Hugz to everyone xx
  • CazannCazann Member Posts: 88 Pioneering
    jane1973 said:
    @Topkitten I feel very similar to you as I cannot use public transport my little old car is like an extension to my safe home bubble I feel like no one can judge me in my safe bubbles I am clinging onto my car as that’s what the norm is for me and I don’t want to accept that I am a failure at yet something else so to look out the window and see my car makes me feel better even if it’s a 5 minute ride once a week to be able to pick up my meds myself it gives me that tiny bit of independence that I don’t want to give up just yet but the dwp want to take that tiny bit away by taking away my pip but I’m going to appeal so I will fight back for that tiny bit of independence after all it is called personal independence payments  
    Hi @jane1973 and @topkitten, I too was told that because I drive a manual car, I have the strength in my legs etc. My car is 21 years old, a very light clutch and gears and like you, I wouldn't get out of the house without it.  I use it to go to my daughters once a week. She lives in the next street. I visit a friend and that is it.  I was on DLA for 13 years, on higher rate mobility and had to go onto PIP last year. I was only given 4 points and I am appealing to go to tribunal (waiting for a date) I think that the DWP are using any excuse to get people off disability but they have it wrong.. I have had 3 operations on my legs and told by my physio to keep excercising my legs. With driving you are not putting pressure on them but walking you do! I am in pain all the time that I have my weight on my legs.
    Good luck with your appeals.
  • jane1973jane1973 Member Posts: 175 Pioneering
    Hi @Cazann good luck with yourr appeal from what i have read the paragraph in the reasons for denying pip because we drive a car whether it be once a week or everyday is exactly the same, i suppose we are put into a category and the statement is used to deny us pip 
    Hugz to everyone xx
  • MatildaMatilda Member Posts: 2,616 Disability Gamechanger
    At my tribunal they thought that anyone who does a lot of driving probably hasn't got many daily living needs.  However, I only make a few short car journeys a week, in an automatic. Tribunal awarded me enhanced mobility (and enhanced daily living).

    In other words tribunals probably won't automatically assume you have a lot of strength if you only make a few short car journeys a week.
  • jane1973jane1973 Member Posts: 175 Pioneering
    Thanks @Matilda if i could drive every day i would as it gets me out having an invisible illness has kept me in my house and just getting out once a week to go down the road is a life saver and helps my wellbeing, i was always active and loved my job with patients in a local hospital but find now i mainly talk to myself and my dog lol ive heard alot of scary stories about tribunals and it does make me panic but its somthing i feel i have to do even if the decision dosent change then at least i know i tried xx
    Hugz to everyone xx
  • MatildaMatilda Member Posts: 2,616 Disability Gamechanger
    @jane1973

    Tribunals are impartial but inquisitorial.  They are there to find out what you can and can't do.  Disabilty Rights UK publish a Handbook that gives a description of appeal hearing procedure. £18.50 from DR site or probably available in your local reference library.
  • jane1973jane1973 Member Posts: 175 Pioneering
    @Matilda thank you for that i will take a look 
    Hugz to everyone xx
  • YadnadYadnad Posts: 2,856 Member
    Matilda said:
    At my tribunal they thought that anyone who does a lot of driving probably hasn't got many daily living needs.  However, I only make a few short car journeys a week, in an automatic. Tribunal awarded me enhanced mobility (and enhanced daily living).

    In other words tribunals probably won't automatically assume you have a lot of strength if you only make a few short car journeys a week.
    There is a huge difference in driving a few short distances in an automatic car, to driving 750 miles a month - 9000 miles a year in a manual car.

    I used to drive upwards of 750 miles a month with a journey every 3 months to and from the North West to go to the hospital in Liverpool. That journey was so tiring both mentally and physically that we had to stop off half way just outside Grantham in a hotel.That was when I was reasonably fit. Over the following years my ill health crept up on me making it almost impossible to drive the 3 miles to the shops. After 3 miles of driving I was physically and mentally exhausted.
    I have no idea how people who say they are so disabled can manage any distance beyond a couple of miles. 

    So yes in an automatic car driving a mile or two is possible - anything beyond that I cannot understand how they do it never mind the assessor or the DWP.
  • jane1973jane1973 Member Posts: 175 Pioneering
    @Yadnad whilst I can understand what you are saying I believe that everyone’s illnesses affects everyone differently we all have different meds pain in different areas and scales; we all suffer mentally in different ways and the effect our own illnesses have on our own well-being is different that is why some people have mobility cars because that’s what they need; I wouldn’t choose to have one if I could as it wouldn’t benefit me I go less that a mile round trip to fetch my medication as I cannot walk there and as @Cazann said it’s easier than walking, we are all different and cope in different ways and the dwp should see us as an individual person and not everyone who has a disability as all lumped together and everyone can and can’t do this or feel this or think this and hurt the same we are all living with something that is individual to us and our competing strategies are different as is our pain thresholds
    Hugz to everyone xx
  • jane1973jane1973 Member Posts: 175 Pioneering
    Coping strategies   Sorry
    Hugz to everyone xx
  • YadnadYadnad Posts: 2,856 Member
    jane1973 said:
    @Yadnad whilst I can understand what you are saying I believe that everyone’s illnesses affects everyone differently we all have different meds pain in different areas and scales; we all suffer mentally in different ways and the effect our own illnesses have on our own well-being is different that is why some people have mobility cars because that’s what they need; I wouldn’t choose to have one if I could as it wouldn’t benefit me I go less that a mile round trip to fetch my medication as I cannot walk there and as @Cazann said it’s easier than walking, we are all different and cope in different ways and the dwp should see us as an individual person and not everyone who has a disability as all lumped together and everyone can and can’t do this or feel this or think this and hurt the same we are all living with something that is individual to us and our competing strategies are different as is our pain thresholds
    Well said!!

    Unfortunately for the DWP and the assessors neither is given the proper training nor are they given the time they need to be able to make the right decision first time. As an example up until 2007 in my government department it was the given that in order to carry out the full job and come to the right conclusions no more than 12 cases could be concluded in any 1 week period - that is 12 new ones per week with 12 old ones being settled. From 2007/8 that went up to 24 cases a week to be settled. Obviously something had to give - and that was quality - it was easier to work to a one size fits all scenario otherwise I would never be able to cope. That was the end of my career and I retired in 2008 at age 60 getting my full pension. 
    Generally it is accepted, like everything that the government ask of the population, that in the main it would be impossible to legislate for every possible variation, change and ability - a one size fits all way of thinking is the best that we can hope for. You will notice that I have not included the Tribunal members - they do take the time and do ask the right questions and do attempt to treat everybody as being different.
    Truthfully according to the PIP regulations I should be categorised as not being able to walk more than 20 metres (by reference to the reliability factor). Yet in fact I can walk a lot further due to the fact that I have the ability to grit my teeth and walk through the pain to finish the course. And if need be I will do the return journey knowing that pain can't kill you.
    What should I put on the PIP2 form - the former or the latter?
  • jane1973jane1973 Member Posts: 175 Pioneering
    @Yadnad well said to you, also the system isnt as cut and dry as we think i suppose if i failed my pip because i didnt meet the criteria then thats fair, its just the asessor filled out her form with anything she wanted to put so now i have to go to appeal to undo the mess she made which led me to lose the pip i had which is not fair at all,but it is good to hear all sides, thank you for that xx
    Hugz to everyone xx
Sign in or join us to comment.