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Things I wish I'd known before PIP assessment...
April
Member Posts: 98 Courageous
Just wanted to give some advice to anyone about to go for a PIP Assessment.
1. Take notes during the Assessment.
2. Be aware of the list of predictors that the Assessor uses, and ask them what they are typing. My daughter told the Assessor that she had travel training (this was just a video at Primary School!), and the Assessor typed that she could travel independently! (she can't!)
This meant that my daughter failed that section of the Assessment. Even though I explained throughout the appeals that it was just a video, the DWP kept repeating that "she had travel training". In my experience, it's impossible to get them to change it afterwards!
3. Make notes about the physical examination. I wish I had. I should have noted down exactly what happened. I should have asked what they were testing and challenged it at the time. It took a matter of minutes, and after that, it was impossible to challenge it, despite the evidence from other professionals. The DWP always prefer their own evidence.
Hope this helps someone.
1. Take notes during the Assessment.
2. Be aware of the list of predictors that the Assessor uses, and ask them what they are typing. My daughter told the Assessor that she had travel training (this was just a video at Primary School!), and the Assessor typed that she could travel independently! (she can't!)
This meant that my daughter failed that section of the Assessment. Even though I explained throughout the appeals that it was just a video, the DWP kept repeating that "she had travel training". In my experience, it's impossible to get them to change it afterwards!
3. Make notes about the physical examination. I wish I had. I should have noted down exactly what happened. I should have asked what they were testing and challenged it at the time. It took a matter of minutes, and after that, it was impossible to challenge it, despite the evidence from other professionals. The DWP always prefer their own evidence.
Hope this helps someone.
Replies
Only the claimant can raise objections or questions of the assessor that is unless someone else has prior DWP permission.
The claimant can ask what is being typed but I do doubt that they will be given a answer.
I will be joining her at the Tribunal too.
Yes, I am suggesting that people take notes during the assessment. If you want to challenge inaccuracies later on, you can only do so if you have a record of what was asked/said. Some people suggest recording it. That might be a better idea for some people. Although notes are better for the physical exam.
My point is that many Assessors don't understand the nature of certain disabilities and misunderstandings arise. If you don't ask what they are typing, you will never know if they've misunderstood. As soon as they have written that Assessment, you will have great difficulty getting them to change any mistakes.
The Assessment seems to be the most important part for the DWP, by the way. More important than Doctors letters, or hospital letters, or your own words.
Unfortunately, and I keep saying this, it all depends on the ability of the claimant to carry out that action. Not everyone is minded for many reasons to be able to express themselves in the best way. Help and assistance is extremely difficult to find especially good help.
What then are we left with? Claimants who are lucky enough to have the ability and claimants that are lucky enough to access good welfare advice and help.
That leaves the third category in that no matter what they do they will generally always undersell their issues and consequently end up with a poor report, a bad decision and have to put up with the stresses of a Tribunal hearing some 12 months down the line having to suffer a large reduction in their income in the meantime.
As for gathering evidence, that too in itself can be a major obstacle for that third group of claimants - not knowing/realising what they should be looking for as well understanding where they can access it.
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Sometimes it isn't helpful to always be saying to seek out help from the start of the claim - we all know that it is impossible to access in many areas of this country.
If the Assessor lacks knowledge about learning difficulties, for instance, they will ignore the original form and type that they don't have any problems.
In those cases, the forms and the medical evidence are treated as worthless by the DWP.
That's why it's important to ensure that the Assessor understands the disability. Don't assume that they will. My daughter's Assessor was only a Nurse, and she didn't have a clue.
There you go I could have told her that I go round eating frogs at night for supper for all that she knew.
That's why I wanted to tell people that the Assessment is the most important part. The DWP, as I understand it (and certainly in my daughter's case) go with the Assessment.
I thought the DWP would read my original form and the medical notes, and give more weight to those. They didn't. They chose to believe a Nurse who had no knowledge or understanding of my daughter's rare disability.
So my advice is to make sure that the Assessor understands everything about the disability. What the Assessor types is the most important part, in my experience.
I actually asked the DWP why they chose to believe the Assessor above the medical evidence. They replied that the Assessor had been given training in disabilities! I wonder how much training they are given though. And how can it be as good as someone who has expertise in the condition?
If for example you claim to not be able to walk more than 20 metres - you give the reason backed up with medical evidence and you explain in detail what happens if you try to walk beyond this level - if the assessor thinks that you are exaggerating your difficulties then that is what the DWP will accept.
I've been there myself with evidence of why I have that difficulty, the proof being an assessment in hospital on a walking machine undertaken by the spinal unit. Then explained what happens if I try to exceed my limit.
The assessor disagreed and said that I can walk more than 200metres with no difficulties.
I did tell the assessor at my third assessment at the start that she might as well not bother wasting my time and her's as what I have written and the evidence I have produced will be ignored and she will write something totally different in the report as per usual. So to cut the crap can we now conclude?
Read what the assessor has typed, it;s states in the book that you can read what the assessor is/has typed.
Record the assessment, you must provide the equipment.
I presume the assessor would argue that for safety reasons they would refuse you access just in case you object strongly to what has been typed.
You can only ask to read what the assessor has written when you make your statement of a typical day etc. You’ve no right to see the rest of what they select on the day at all.
Whilst HCPs are given a copy of the claim pack electronically they’re under no obligation to read or menorise every aspect. For them it’s basic background. They are there solely to draw their own conclusions based on the face to face. Only the subsequent decision maker has to read and weigh all the evidence.
The PIP 1 and 2 are critical for all conditions but again we’re hearing on this thread about peoope writing about symptoms and putting in medical evidence. Neither are especially useful in most cases. What DWP need on the claim pack are 2 or 3 real world detailed practical examples per activity. If you do that then the face to face is far easier to overcome and often irrelevant.
he noted my breathing i did not he noted my legs swollen and i had thought loss i did not he noted i could clean myself cos i said yes i could ???lieing cos embarressed he noted nope needed acestance because of instability standing sittin
Firstly, the cost would go through the roof.
Secondly, many specialists actively disagree with the diagnosis of the thing in which they major. That won’t go well for CFS, IBS etc.
Thirdly, most people have multiple conditions. So, which specialist then? Better still what if your specialist is indeed that but believes your other conditions are over-stated etc?
But even with the system as it is where the impact is measured and not the condition, assessors are about as useful as a chocolate teapot when trying to assess that impact.
It seems to me that they just take what they see in front of them as representing the full picture and don't appear to consider the wider scenario of variability.
Then you have a claimant that is so consumed with adapting his/her life to the impact that they come over to the assessor as applicants who are overstating their difficulties.
Put it simply, even accepting the assessors role in PIP, they woefully fall short in getting to the bottom line of why the claimant is in front of them.
Either they should be given more training in investigatory analysis and/or more time in carrying out such roles - 2 hours would be a minimum.
I say that because I had a full assessment carried out by an appointed person at my local university to establish if and how my health issues were impinging on my ability to continue to carry out my duties within the Civil Service. That investigation took well over 2 hours to complete which resulted in a well written and totally correct report. I would add that that same report some months later was dismissed by ATOS when conducting an assessment as to my entitlement to ESA.
Equally though there is an understandable culture of mistrust of DWP so people hold back exactly at the point they have the opportunity to explain.
Even now the PIP2 is still a bewildering document.
Your second paragraph makes me smile. The DWP is the only government department that I mistrust to the nth degree. Past experiences of their inability to give accurate advice, failure to write letters in a sensible and coherent manner, failure to understand that people in general can't understand the complexities of the Welfare system and the inability to communicate with claimants in a pleasant and helpful way. Whether this has anything to do with the general quality of their staff I don't know. I would assume that the civil servants that want to forge a career still avoid working for that department. Even as far back as the mid 60's any civil servant with half a brain would turn down a promotion if it meant having to go to the DWP.(NAB/MPNI/DHSS).
I would go as far as to say that good evidence is kept back from the DWP as it is commonly believed that there is no point in sending it in as it will simply be ignored - much better to hang on to it for the Tribunal.
I think the danger is that people, understandably but wrongly, leap from getting a decision they disagree with to an assumption that the only way the decision could come out that way is if specific documents have been ignored. I’ve yet to come across an occasion where I’ve seen evidence of that. The actual issue is that almost nothing will move DMs from the notion that they must prefer the evidence of the HCP because they’re trained to do exactly that.
Allied to that is the still remaining stigma of means-testing which has travellled down the decades breeding distrust amongst entire generations via word of mouth. That can’t be under-estimated.
The Officer had to visit the home, more often than not just a room or two in a house with 2/3 families also living in the same property, to assess the value of their prized possessions that had to be sold before being given a handout. Some had their furniture removed if it was felt to be excessive. The basics you were left with was a bed, personal clothing (restricted in quantity and quality) tools of your trade if you had one, a small table and a couple of chairs. Radios, record players and TV's were classified as luxury goods that had to go.
I wonder how people today would cope if that same system was employed for all means tested benefit claims - JSA, ESA, GPC & UC?
It's no wonder people hated having to claim. and the indignity of it all.
The best, and this is probably were the mistrust emanated from, was the thought of neighbours watching it all happen.
When the Tribunal look at the evidence of your case, do they look at the evidence you sent in when you first applied and then any info for MR, or do they also look at any further info you have sent them in between the MR decision and the Tribunal hearing.
If they look at all the evidence given at initial application as well as after MR would that not look as though the DWP could not come to a correct decision in the first place as the DWP did not have all the information available. Or is there something I'm missing..Thanks
Thanks for that.
I have just started down the road of appealing my ESA/UC assessment decision and have just received some new information from counsellors about my conditions.
I have sent it into the Courts and they have sent it to DWP.
I was awarded my Blue Badge.just after I sent the appeal docs off to the Courts, I know it has different criteria than (C)ESA/UC but would it help or would it nor be considered by the courts due to having different reasons for acceptance.
Thanks
Thanks for that.
I will send it in as there was only 9 weeks between assessments.
Thanks for the info.
I recently represented my sister-in-law at a PIP tribunal after a 10month wait. We won and she is waiting for her 10 month back payment.
The whole process was long and stressful and I am devastated that this is happening to many other disabled people. The DWP are not only letting disabled people down, but they are actively making them worse in my experience.
I would advise you to send the courts as much evidence as possible prior to your tribunal. We included medical evidence (Physio reports, GP reports etc) as well as personal statements from people close to the claimant. Details about other benefits, blue badge etc is also helpful.
Don't get me started on the terrible assessment process and the behaviour of many of the assessors. It is an outright disgrace.
I am reporting the assessor involved in our case to the Nursing Midwifery Council.