Things I wish I'd known before PIP assessment... - Page 2 — Scope | Disability forum
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Things I wish I'd known before PIP assessment...

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  • Yadnad
    Yadnad Posts: 2,856 Disability Gamechanger
    April said:
    Yadnad said:
     
    It does seem in the case of many that have this assessment that no matter what you put on the form or what evidence you send in, if the assessor doesn't believe what you have written down and goes against it, the DWP will almost always go with the assessor and not the form or the evidence.

    If for example you claim to not be able to walk more than 20 metres - you give the reason backed up with medical evidence and you explain in detail what happens if you try to walk beyond this level - if the assessor thinks that you are exaggerating your difficulties then that is what the DWP will accept.

    I've been there myself with evidence of why I have that difficulty, the proof being an assessment in hospital on a walking machine undertaken by the spinal unit. Then explained what happens if I try to exceed my limit.
    The assessor disagreed and said that I can walk more than 200metres with no difficulties.
    I did tell the assessor at my third assessment at the start that she might as well not bother wasting my time and her's as what I have written and the evidence I have produced will be ignored and she will write something totally different in the report as per usual. So to cut the **** can we now conclude?
    I hope you're going to Tribunal with your case. It sounds like you have a very good case, and they are more likely to believe the medical evidence. Good luck!
    I would if I could just as long as I had a good representative to advise me. Getting such quality help is almost impossible in my area, hence why I only went as far as a MR and didn't progress it to appeal. On my own I don't have the capabilities of doing a proper job and as the stress of it would affect my health I just couldn't face the prospect. 
  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User] Posts: 90 Listener
    edited November 2022
    i had the idea the way to gain pip was to use evidence but failed now i sat watching this site and mike [removed by moderator] comments time after time and thought nope  then failed again  but turns out he was spot on all the proof in the world be it docs or tapeing or writeing everything down in face to face means nothing unless you exsplainn not about the illness but how you are affected  strange i know but true
  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User] Posts: 90 Listener
    edited October 2018
    when i had last one i was asked to stand up i did he noticed i swayed i did not i am used to it?
     he noted my breathing i did not he noted my legs swollen and i had thought loss i did not he noted i could clean myself cos i said yes i could ???lieing cos embarressed he noted nope needed acestance because of instability standing sittin

  • Waylay
    Waylay Community member, Scope Member Posts: 973 Pioneering
    @Username_removed DWP guidance states that the assessor and the DM(s) will look at all the evidence.
  • Waylay
    Waylay Community member, Scope Member Posts: 973 Pioneering
    I think that we should be seen by assessors who have some experience with our disabilities. I say this because I've had the experience that many of them know nothing about chronic pain, and therefore assume that it's just pain that lasts a long time. They seem to have no idea that it's a syndrome involving malfunction of the central nervous system, which causes neurological, endocrine, immune and cognitive problems. Because of this, they don't even ask questions about these things, and when I've tried to bring them up, only 1 of my 6 assessors actually believed me (a physiotherapist). In one assessment I had the assessor actually roll his eyes when I stated that I have bad short-term memory and "brain fog" due to my chronic pain. Those are bpth very common symptoms! He didn't even write it down. If they don't know anything about your condition, they often ignore things or disbelieve things that are important.

    Another example: Many assessors appear to believe that OCD involves obsessive hand-washing. It does, for some people, but many others have completely different issues/rituals. A friend didn't receive PIP because she said that she needed prompting to bathe (she also has severe depression). The report says something like, "States has problems with bathing, but has OCD!!!" Sigh.
  • Yadnad
    Yadnad Posts: 2,856 Disability Gamechanger
    edited October 2018
    Must agree with you Mike over that.
    But even with the system as it is where the impact is measured and not the condition, assessors are about as useful as a chocolate teapot when trying to assess that impact.
    It seems to me that they just take what they see in front of them as representing the full picture and don't appear to consider the wider scenario of variability.
    Then you have a claimant that is so consumed with adapting his/her life to the impact that they come over to the assessor as applicants who are overstating their difficulties.

    Put it simply, even accepting the assessors role in PIP, they woefully fall short in getting to the bottom line of why the claimant is in front of them.

    Either they should be given more training in investigatory analysis and/or more time in carrying out such roles - 2 hours would be a minimum.

    I say that because I had a full assessment carried out by an appointed person at my local university to establish if and how my health issues were impinging on my ability to continue to carry out my duties within the Civil Service. That investigation took well over 2 hours to complete which resulted in a well written and totally correct report. I would add that that same report some months later was dismissed by ATOS when conducting an assessment as to my entitlement to ESA. 
  • Yadnad
    Yadnad Posts: 2,856 Disability Gamechanger
    edited October 2018
    I have to say that the problem starts with the questions on the claim pack and the poor quality of explanatory information which goes with it. There is, in my view, active discouragement to explain your issues properly.

    Equally though there is an understandable culture of mistrust of DWP so people hold back exactly at the point they have the opportunity to explain.
    As for your first paragraph, I do agree entirely. When a claimant, like myself, is faced with the PIP2 and the attached notes it still leaves them thinking - 'I don't understand that lot'. And not being able to access independent help they are left struggling to write on the form what they think they should write and not what they must write.
    Even now the PIP2 is still a bewildering document.

    Your second paragraph makes me smile. The DWP is the only government department that I mistrust to the nth degree. Past experiences of their inability to give accurate advice, failure to write letters in a sensible and coherent manner, failure to understand that people in general can't understand the complexities of the Welfare system and the inability to communicate with claimants in a pleasant and helpful way. Whether this has anything to do with the general quality of their staff I don't know. I would assume that the civil servants that want to forge a career still avoid working for that department. Even as far back as the mid 60's any civil servant with half a brain would turn down a promotion if it meant having to go to the DWP.(NAB/MPNI/DHSS).

    I would go as far as to say that good evidence is kept back from the DWP as it is commonly believed that there is no point in sending it in as it will simply be ignored - much better to hang on to it for the Tribunal.

  • Yadnad
    Yadnad Posts: 2,856 Disability Gamechanger
    edited October 2018
    Allied to that is the still remaining stigma of means-testing which has travellled down the decades breeding distrust amongst entire generations via word of mouth. That can’t be under-estimated.
    I remember the old National Assistance Board and what claimants were expected to do to claim it.
    The Officer had to visit the home, more often than not just a room or two in a house with 2/3 families also living in the same property, to assess the value of their prized possessions that had to be sold before being given a handout. Some had their furniture removed if it was felt to be excessive. The basics you were left with was a bed, personal clothing (restricted in quantity and quality) tools of your trade if you had one, a small table and a couple of chairs. Radios, record players and TV's were classified as luxury goods that had to go.

    I wonder how people today would cope if that same system was employed for all means tested benefit claims - JSA, ESA, GPC & UC?

    It's no wonder people hated having to claim. and the indignity of it all. 
    The best, and this is probably were the mistrust emanated from, was the thought of neighbours watching it all happen.
  • chrisvanf
    chrisvanf Community member Posts: 63 Courageous
    @mikehughescq

    When the Tribunal look at the evidence of your case, do they look at the evidence you sent in when you first applied and then any info for MR, or do they also look at any further info you have sent them in between the MR decision and the Tribunal hearing.
    If they look at all the evidence given at initial application as well as after MR would that not look as though the DWP could not come to a correct decision in the first place as the DWP did not have all the information available. Or is there something I'm missing..Thanks   
    Edited, re-edited, bits added, bits taken out spellchecked then edited again, 
  • chrisvanf
    chrisvanf Community member Posts: 63 Courageous
    @Username_removed.
    Thanks for that.
    I have just started down the road of appealing my ESA/UC assessment decision and have just received some new information from counsellors about my conditions.
    I have sent it into the Courts and they have sent it to DWP.

    I was awarded my Blue Badge.just after I sent the appeal docs off to the Courts, I know it has different criteria than (C)ESA/UC but would it help or would it nor be considered by the courts due to having different reasons for acceptance.
    Thanks  
    Edited, re-edited, bits added, bits taken out spellchecked then edited again, 
  • chrisvanf
    chrisvanf Community member Posts: 63 Courageous
    @Username_removed.
    Thanks for that.
    I will send it in as there was only 9 weeks between assessments.
    Thanks for the info.   
    Edited, re-edited, bits added, bits taken out spellchecked then edited again, 
  • fluffy84
    fluffy84 Community member Posts: 18 Connected
    I would love to hear how you got on at tribunal and I would urge you and anyone else to attend a tribunal. 

    I recently represented my sister-in-law at a PIP tribunal after a 10month wait. We won and she is waiting for her 10 month back payment. 

    The whole process was long and stressful and I am devastated that this is happening to many other disabled people. The DWP are not only letting disabled people down, but they are actively making them worse in my experience. 

    I would advise you to send the courts as much evidence as possible prior to your tribunal. We included medical evidence (Physio reports, GP reports etc) as well as personal statements from people close to the claimant. Details about other benefits, blue badge etc is also helpful. 

    Don't get me started on the terrible assessment process and the behaviour of many of the assessors. It is an outright disgrace. 

    I am reporting the assessor involved in our case to the Nursing Midwifery Council. 

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