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Dwp overlooked medical evidence- why ?
meri92
Member Posts: 13 Connected
I re applied for pip in June. Had the assessment and got 4 points for daily living then 4 points for mobility. My previous award was standard daily and enhanced notability. My conditions are mental health related. Well the original hp report had to be sent back for clarification and the second report only took some points from my GPs letter explaining my problems but ignored others so I went from 4 points to 7 on daily living but they took away the 4 points for motability.
For the Mandotory reconsideration I sent in more evidence from my gp and sent in a letter from the personality disorder unit that I'm under but they wouldn't look at it. The thing is my doctors letter clearly says she can't leave the house un accompanied and that I need prompting to eat. But because the hp said she saw no signs of psychological distress (not true, I was extremely distressed) that they can't award me pip. Even thought I've got 3 letters from my gp and psych all confirming the same thing. They've just cherry picked the evidence?
Now I have to go to tribunal but I'm absolutely dreading it. I'm not sleeping at night and my condition is the worst it's ever been in a while. I feel like writing to my MP about it because I've got all the proof they need they're just not taking it on board. I really can't deal with the stress of a tribunal and the wait is making so ill. What can I do ?
For the Mandotory reconsideration I sent in more evidence from my gp and sent in a letter from the personality disorder unit that I'm under but they wouldn't look at it. The thing is my doctors letter clearly says she can't leave the house un accompanied and that I need prompting to eat. But because the hp said she saw no signs of psychological distress (not true, I was extremely distressed) that they can't award me pip. Even thought I've got 3 letters from my gp and psych all confirming the same thing. They've just cherry picked the evidence?
Now I have to go to tribunal but I'm absolutely dreading it. I'm not sleeping at night and my condition is the worst it's ever been in a while. I feel like writing to my MP about it because I've got all the proof they need they're just not taking it on board. I really can't deal with the stress of a tribunal and the wait is making so ill. What can I do ?
Replies
May be that the points you were awarded where related to your condition but did not apply to other descriptors
It also depends on how you answered the questions such as if you state you always have to have somebody with you instead of saying how much it varies, and said this is because if you have to speak to someone you don't know it will cause you anxiety, but you showed no signs of anxiety during the assessment that may lead the health care professional to believe that the anxiety does not affect your functional ability to carry out other tasks. If you said it varies then they cannot use that one day as proof of all days.
I had a similar situation where I had been at home all day waiting for the assessment so not at work. I have an eye condition triggered by use of screens or flouro overhead lighting whereby I go temporarily blind due to migraines. She didn't see that during my assessment and therefore didn't award any points for a descriptor but I do use an aide or appliances to aide my vision on most days (at work when I need to use a screen most and the attack is more likely to occur and i also have medication for it). I put in a complaint that they hadn't properly assessed the proof i sent in or taken into account the variability I had already mentioned and the points were changed without needing an MR. I just put clearly why I think they hadn't looked through the evidence as the information to satisfy the descriptor was there and they just didn't read it.
I dont know if that has worked for any one else but if you feel like they have not dealt with your evidence correctly you can complain.
The DWP just kept repeating that I didn't show signs of psychological distress at the assessment. This is what stopped them giving me any points that I needed to get an award. That's not true and I feel like there's no way I can prove that I was distressed on the day. It's weird because they actually took a second report from the hp and they second report only took some of the points from my GPs letter and not other points?
The first assessors report from the hp was sent back for clarification. That's why they did a second one. The second one took into consideration my GPs letter and gave me 3 extra points. However they took away 4 from mobility that the original assessor had give me. This was all before the MR.
I rang them up to speak to a case worker at the dwp who told me what I've put on here. She told me because I didn't show any signs of psychological distress they wont give me points for mobility. Those are their words not mine it's even on the mandatory reconsideration letter. The hp report is being used over my evidence.
I didn't know that GPs letter didn't carry much weight for the Dwp?
It seems to me that you may well have an arguable case but your assessment of the strength of your own evidence is poor. For example, the fact your partner turned up on the day is evidence of literally nothing.
You call my assessment of my evidence poor but youre not understanding my point I was making. I wasn't saying my partner turning up is evidence but if I had turned up alone it would have made it seem more unbelievable.
The fact is that the DWP pay Capita to do these assessments on its behalf and accepting almost everything that a HCP says and the points they recommend is their way of justifying the contract. They will take more notice of them than anyone else you see who knows you better but that's what's wrong with the process we are working with at the moment.
I have been to hundreds of tribunals and whilst I understand it's easy for me to say but tribunals are generally not as bad as a lot of people think they will be. You will be given a chance to explain how your health issues affect you and the tribunal will/should cover all the activities so nothing will be missed out. It certainly sounds as though you could do with representation so please try and seek it from your Local Authority's Welfare Rights team, if it has one. Good luck and all the best!
Lee
What a claimant should be doing is providing a substantial and acceptable letter/report from a recognised individual/source that does indeed only deal with describing what the impact is.
The only definitive source of a report of that nature that I can think of could well be one from an OT from Social Services or maybe a privately sourced OT that has assessed the claimant and noted all of the difficulties and impact arising out of the disabilities. Having friends/neighbours/family writing letters of that nature should be treated as being sceptical as would a diary which has apparently been written by the claimant themselves. Such letters etc are open to exaggeration.
Surely the DWP case mangers should also look at each case with that in their mind? Put it bluntly if someone produced either a hand written diary purporting to show the difficulties that they had encountered or a family member had sent a letter in saying - 'please accept what my cousin is claiming as it is the truth' type of thing and unless there is irrefutable confirmation from a qualified source then, personally I would not give that evidence much weight at all.
Some people will write anything or add bits to try to obtain an award in my experience of the general public.
I do accept that in my work I very rarely came across anybody that understood what honesty meant. That obviously has coloured my view of people to some extent. Even them being warned in accordance with the Perjury Act that lies will probably end up with them going to prison did not deter them.
I was expecting the DWP case managers to be sceptical of that type of evidence simply because it had the opportunity to be exaggerated at best.
In my opinion the case managers are not doing their job properly if they just accept in good faith what they are told by the claimant, their relatives or friends. That type of evidence should be tested for the benefit of those that do tell the truth.
It may well be the case that I would not make a good case manager in working for the DWP, I'm too disbelieving.
In my case evidence from my partner didn't make a difference and don't tell me I didn't put enough detail into it I know exactly what was said in the letters. The tribunal took that as evidence and all my medical evidence as sufficient for making their decision. They actually said it in the letter for the reason they gave me standard daily and enhanced motability. All of this could have been done by the dwp if the assessors didn't lie and down play everything. They have the exact same evidence available to them as the tribunal did but they both came up with different conclusion.
Ok I'm gonna give you an idea what evidence I sent in with my PIP claim, this is only some of it and you can see I won't need a review.
Also the FE continues over the next page I'm not adding that.
I also did the same for my ESA.
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However at a Tribunal it can be and was tested in front of a doctor (instead of the assessor), and a legally qualified person (instead of the decision maker). In addition there was a 3rd person who had experience of how disabilities can affect people.
With all three together in one room and asking relevant questions of you they tested all of the evidence and on the balance accepted what you had claimed on the PIP2.
The system as it is in your case is fragmented. The assessor probably didn't display the same quality of questioning that the doctor did and the decision maker didn't take account of the regulations that make up PIP but the judge did.
In addition there was a third angle to it at the Tribunal, your partner was questioned as to ;how he managed his life'.
So in a way the decision maker made the right decision because not enough testing was carried out in order to qualify the PIP2 and it's contents.
For Mike's comments to say that the best evidence is that that is written on the claim form etc including letters from friends & family in support is only as good as it can be tested to see if it all stacks up by questioning and observation of body language.
Essentially your partner was let down by a fragmented and inefficient system which was more concerned with time being spent than getting to the truth of the matter.
None of that makes claimants evidence less reliable than medical evidence. Said it many times before but medical evidence says nothing about functional ability bar cases where claimants lack self awareness like LD or mental ill health. Indeed it would be a very strange world if first hand evidence was given the least weight.
Just from what I have read it was clear cut to me that you would have easily had an award. The testing of the contents of the PIP2 was more than carried out by the other evidence submitted. In effect you carried out all that was needed. Produce the claim, make your case and then supply irrefutable evidence to back it all up - fantastic job done Q.E.D.
Not to have sent in the supporting evidence you would probably have not been given any award and would have had to go to a tribunal where it could be tested.
It does go to show that the contents of the PIP2 counts for nothing unless good independent supporting evidence is made available Exactly what Mike & I disagree on - it's not what you, your friends or family write about, it's about testing what is being said by other evidence.
The only thing we know to be fact is that 52% of PIP claims succeed without supporting medical evidence and DWP have no evidence that the medical evidence in the other 48% was persuasive.
I won't say either that the PIP2 counts for nothing by any means, I feel it's because of all the support and help with all my evidence detailing me and my life along with my PIP2. So it's a balance of the two. Evidence and form.
I see my Support four times a week and they monitor me all the time and they know my full situation and I believe because they no my day to day functional habits it was easier to make a decision on me and they were categorically told if they needed further infomation to contact them all.
I dont know wether they did or not, I don't know.
I'm just so glad its over and was sorted. Also I don't see much of my PIP anyway.
I created one of the campaign election videos for Labour, and Jeremy Corbyn,
This is a new version of Emeli Sande, Hope "You Are Not Alone
You can see the video here.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=P5o8hRHh9IY
Just thought I'd see if anyone can help me out on this
As you can tell from my previous question I'm at the tribunal stage of my claim. The 28 days have passed for the dwp to respond and they haven't as of yet. My previous claim went to tribunal and that time the dwp responded within two weeks with all the paperwork.
How common is it for them not to respond in time and should I bother to ring up the dwp to see what's happening ?
Statement of reasons ?
I haven't had the appeal yet I'm just at the first stage where you send of your appeal the tribunal and they're waiting for the dwps response to my appeal.
I've not had the hearing yet.
Then you’re waiting for them to compile appeal papers. There’s no normal speed for this and no penalty for missing targets. It will vary from case to case. However, this is the best period for you to get a rep and put your case together. Use it wisely.