PIP, DLA and AA
If this is your first visit, check out the community guide. You will have to Join us or Sign in before you can post.
Receiving too many notifications? Adjust your notification settings.

Grounds for Upper Tribunal Appeal due to error by assessor AND Tribunal?

Weeme56Weeme56 Member Posts: 36 Courageous
Just got  Statement of Reasons  in from Tribunal which Hubby lost. Wonder if we would have grounds to appeal to upper teir. GP had given PIP copies of letters from hubbys psych to GP - updates really. One mentioned we had gone to Barceloan for my 60th birthday. Tribunal grilled hubby about him not taking Disabilitty assistance at Airports. It did not dawn on me until recently. that trip was in December 2016, his PIP assessment was December 2017 - a year later. Tribunal Statement mentiions this trip as being recent when expressing issue with him not needing assitance. Why would a trip a year before the PIP assessment matter? He was being assessed on how he was at that time..not the year before! would this be sufficient to appeal to Upper Teir? Aslo they expressed opinion that they believed it improbable that hubby forgets he had blackout. Hubby told Tribunal he had not had one since last year..he forgot he had one a few months before the Tribunal - he often does not realise it happened. They tend to happen if he needs to ge t up for the loo during the night. We no longer tell the GP. No cause was found & he has not had any tests for over 10 yrs! I usually help him get back to bed he shakes & stammers & 'fits' for about 30 mins then falls asleep. Next day I ask how are you now..he ask why? The entire report as good as said LIARS Tjey ignores GP & Hopsital recent report but refered to letters from 2015? Is that acceptable?

Replies

  • Weeme56Weeme56 Member Posts: 36 Courageous
    sorry if this has duplicated..server was acting up :expressionless:
  • TarbatnessTarbatness Member Posts: 17 Connected
    Hi Weeme56,
    Get some advice from the CAB and ask them to handle the new appeal ! Make copies of everything and keep them for future reference. 

    The DWP are trying to save money that clearly should be paid to the sick and disabled and all assessments seem to be biased in their favour , don`t let them win - appeal !
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    There's absolutely no point starting a new claim using the same evidence that was previously used because this will very likely see another refusal.
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • Weeme56Weeme56 Member Posts: 36 Courageous
    I know, but all his teste & diagnosis were doen at least 2 yr ago for the physicals disabilities & he has been seeing psych for 20 yrs! It was not a new claim. Hubby had been on DLA for 20 yrs. Lost it at PIP assesment. MR failed so we had Tribunal last month. They ignore factul reports but picked out bits from psychiatrists updates to GP! GP thought she was doing us a good turn by giving them so much evidence but they only used the psych letters aginst him! Got a Welfare rights lawyer but he is did not say much! :( Going to have to ask GP te send him for up to date tests etc..for no health reason only for his Medical Records to be up to date for DWP admin benefit!
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    His DLA award will have no affect on his PIP claim. As he was transferring from DLA then it was a new PIP claim. Medical evidence is often pointless unless it clearly states how his conditions affect him against the PIP descriptors.
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • Weeme56Weeme56 Member Posts: 36 Courageous
    Well the Doctor stated how ill he is & that he is NOT fir for work. They ignored that entirely. It is all' you say this..we believe otherwise'!
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    Weeme56 said:
    Well the Doctor stated how ill he is & that he is NOT fir for work. They ignored that entirely. It is all' you say this..we believe otherwise'!
    PIP isn't about being fit for work, people claim PIP and work. It's about how your conditions affect you. I would advise you to get expert advice on this to see if any error in law were made. It's impossible to advise this on an internet forum.
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • debbiedo49debbiedo49 Member Posts: 2,906 Disability Gamechanger
    Please get face to face advice. You need to show how these conditions affect him day to day most of the time. Good luck.
    💜🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿
    I am a fibro warrior !💜♏️
  • Weeme56Weeme56 Member Posts: 36 Courageous
    Thank you everyone for the input & advice. xx
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 5,364 Disability Gamechanger
    This sounds like you were poorly prepared for the appeal In view if the opinions he was likely to have on the day. The issues you raise now are ones a decent rep would have come back with on the day. The things you want to challenge on are factual issues. You can only get to UT if you can show an error of law. At this stage the facts cannot be disputed. They only come back into play if you can win at UT and get a fresh hearing at FTT.
  • YadnadYadnad Member - under moderation Posts: 2,862 Disability Gamechanger
    There does seem to be some extremely poor reps around. Seems that you don't need one if they are like that - the claimant could probably have done better on their own!

    There's me harping on about the shortage of any rep when the one you find turns out like that.
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 5,364 Disability Gamechanger
    Thought there was no rep in this case?
  • Weeme56Weeme56 Member Posts: 36 Courageous
    We have  a Rep. He works for local Welfare rights & law centre. I am not happy with him but there is no other ones about! My past experience with Council money Matters folk put me off them. I could have done better myself but I'm not in good emotional state just now. I have my own health problems & just had 8th operation to sort complications from breast cancer surgery, & am worn out! I expected him to be a fighter but seems he is going through the motions!
  • YadnadYadnad Member - under moderation Posts: 2,862 Disability Gamechanger
    edited October 2018
    As I have said before it does seem that good reps are hard to come by.


    My wife had two when she made her first Attendance Allowance application. I had to go in her place to the Tribunal as she was far too ill in bed. The reps did nothing, advised nothing except sit next to me. I even had to tell the judge that I completed the claim form as it was a shambles so as to avoid the agency the reps came from being slated.The reps helped complete the claim form.

    Not only did she not get the award I took the brunt of the judges wrath for the form as well as being personally described as being a non credible witness and drug dealer.
  • Weeme56Weeme56 Member Posts: 36 Courageous
    OOFT! That is horrific! I filled in hubbys form & he could not remember anything about it. When Tribunal challenged him on things written they refused to accept this is a man with PTSD - ergo he has memory problems. He cannot remember if it was this year or last year he has a scan or when his last 'episode' was He has blackouts that he does not recall the next day. Tribunal actually wrote they found it improbable he could not remember! they said he was evasive. He was stammering & emotionally upset throughout, that is not evasive that is stressed to hell! We both said their was no physical test & they seem to take that as an attack on THEM! thought they were supposed to be neutral? Was more like defending the system to me!
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 5,364 Disability Gamechanger
    If you have a rep then going on a forum just confuses the issue and disrespects their work. If you have issues with them then go say so. Allow them the opportunity to respond and explain their perspective. Much of what goes wrong between reps and claimants is simple communication. The question asked on this thread should be explicitly directed to your rep and only your rep. If you’re then not happy with the answer you have multiple options.
  • YadnadYadnad Member - under moderation Posts: 2,862 Disability Gamechanger
    Seems that the poster is not too happy with how the rep has handled things so far so presumably is seeking a second opinion on here?
    My experience of reps for DWP purposes is almost zero although it was just the one experience - never had one after that.

    I can just imagine the opening line from the poster to the rep
    'hey, do you know what you are about? You made a right pigs ear in that hearing. What have you got to say for yourself eh?'

  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 5,364 Disability Gamechanger
    edited October 2018
    Conversation doesn’t have to go like that at all. First call should be the actual rep. That’s the only fair thing to do. Second call, if felt to be needed, could be various options from accepting the advice, outcomes, explanations through to complaint or switch of rep.

    People are often surprised when that incompetent supposedly disinterested first view appears to be echoed by a second adviser from elsewhere. It’s not common but there is a proportion of people who travel from service to service looking for someone to give them the answer they want. 
  • YadnadYadnad Member - under moderation Posts: 2,862 Disability Gamechanger
    Conversation doesn’t have to go like that at all. First call should be the actual rep. That’s the only fair thing to do. Second call, if felt to be needed, could be various options from accepting the advice, outcomes, explanations through to complaint or switch of rep.

    People are often surprised when that incompetent supposedly disinterested first view appears to be echoed by a second adviser from elsewhere. It’s not common but there is a proportion of people who travel from service to service looking for someone to give them the answer they want. 
    Well aren't they the lucky ones!
    Going from service to service looking for someone to give them the answer they want.is not the way forward. But having choices is.

    In my one case, I did telephone the agency afterwards but no one ever returned my call. Consequently without having had the ability to ask why the hearing went that way I had no alternative but to strike them off my extremely small list of advisors and making a point of telling others also looking for help of what had happened. Eventually the list became smaller and smaller for many other reasons leaving me with a ZERO option. 
  • Weeme56Weeme56 Member Posts: 36 Courageous
    mikehughescq you seem to be very much on the defensive..why? I have as much right to question & critique my Rep as anyone. This is not just a forum for advice..it is also a sounding board. Support is what we look for- not lorded over my some defensive know it all!
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    Lets try and keep is friendly please. It's extremely difficult to read text type and a lot of the time people do come to the wrong conclusions. I don't believe that any harm was meant by mike, other than being straight to the point. Valuable advice such as his, is very often extremely hard to come by.
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 5,364 Disability Gamechanger
    Weeme56 said:
    mikehughescq you seem to be very much on the defensive..why? I have as much right to question & critique my Rep as anyone. This is not just a forum for advice..it is also a sounding board. Support is what we look for- not lorded over my some defensive know it all!

    Nowt defensive going on here. It's not really me who has to explain their approach.

    You absolutely have the right to critique and question but you haven't. Instead you've gone first to an online forum!

    How would you feel if someone had some issues with the way you had conducted yourself doing your line of work and their first resort was not to talk to you about it but to raise it first with a group of strangers who, in most instances, understandably don't have a grasp on the role, the law, caselaw, guidance etc? If I found a client on a forum preferring the expertise of lay people over me, and where I would not have the right of reply, then depending on the circumstances, that would likely be the end of the working relationship.

    Some people on here will not be able to access advice, representation or both. When you apparently have access to both then, if you don't understand or agree with what has taken place, you start with your rep. You have an expectation of them being professional, fair and open. Is there some reason your conduct should be different?

    It's really that simple.


  • AlexAlex Posts: 1,325 Scope community team
    I've closed this discussion to further replies. As Poppy says - please try to keep things friendly. 

    Good night everyone.
This discussion has been closed.