Mandatory Reconsideration

PIPnewbie

@poppy123456

Can her I or her grandmother write her MR letter even if we aren't official appointees?

Yadnad

vickyanne said:

pipnewbie
best wishes to your girlfriend i feel for her. I would also look into getting support for future assessments ie the DWP assesing her at home as noone should have to not eat for two days to enable them to go out it is scandalous!

and no one should have to overdose on Morphine to get through the assessment as I had to do. Most of the time I was away with the fairies!

Yadnad

PIPnewbie said:

@poppy123456

Can her I or her grandmother write her MR letter even if we aren't official appointees?

Anybody can write a letter explaining what the problems are, and the impact that they have. It's up to the Case Manager as to how much weight to give to that evidence.

poppy123456

PIPnewbie said:

@poppy123456

Can her I or her grandmother write her MR letter even if we aren't official appointees?

You don't have to be an appointee to write a letter of support for evidence, anyone can do that if you know the claimant well enough. I still really do advise you to get help with this process.

This link may help you. https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/personal-independence-payment-assessment-guide-for-assessment-providers/pip-assessment-guide-part-2-the-assessment-criteria

PIPnewbie

@Yadnad

Thanks for the info, mate.

@poppy123456

Thanks Poppy, I will check that link out now. 

I know you said the DWP aren't interested in, "The assessor lied here..." but are you allowed to write where you disagree with the assessor, such as "The report said I was not tired, but I fell asleep in the waiting room, etc."?

atlas46

Hi @PIPnewbie

Strongly suggest, you follow the kind advice of @poppy123456 and get Welfare Rights Advisor to assist with MR.

You should contemplate, that your girlfriend will need to go to appeal, at this stage.

But as your girlfriend has now got PIP in pay, there is little of concern.

I will post tomorrow about the assessor's report or lack of!!

PIPnewbie

atlas46 said:

Hi @PIPnewbie

Strongly suggest, you follow the kind advice of @poppy123456 and get Welfare Rights Advisor to assist with MR.

You should contemplate, that your girlfriend will need to go to appeal, at this stage.

But as your girlfriend has now got PIP in pay, there is little of concern.

I will post tomorrow about the assessor's report or lack of!!

 Thanks again Atlas.  Will she have to physically go to lots of appointments for this?  Or can it be done over the phone/email?

As of now she has 2 weeks and 4 days to reply.  The 28 day rule is not fair if they go from date of award as she didn't receive the letter until 6 days after the date of award, effectively cutting the time to appeal for MR down to 22 days.

poppy123456

PIPnewbie said:

I know you said the DWP aren't interested in, "The assessor lied here..." but are you allowed to write where you disagree with the assessor, such as "The report said I was not tired, but I fell asleep in the waiting room, etc."?

I'm not sure why you would want to mention that because it's not related to any of the descriptors. Please just concentrate on those descriptors and where she thinks she should have scored those points and why.

poppy123456

I just found this in that guide i posted a link for, that may concern your girlfriend because i do remember you stated the taking nutrition descriptor and this is the very reason i keep advising you to get some help.

Taking nutrition...

This activity considers a person’s ability to be nourished, either by cutting food into pieces, conveying it to the mouth and chewing and swallowing; or through the use of therapeutic sources.

The defined term ‘taking nutrition’ refers solely to the act of eating and drinking and so the quality of what is being consumed is irrelevant for the purposes of daily living activity 2. Therefore, if for any reason a claimant elects to have a bad or restricted diet, makes dietary choices or chooses to avoid certain foods as part of dietary requirements, they are nevertheless ‘taking nutrition’ to an acceptable standard and therefore will not score under activity 2.

atlas46

Hi

I see you live in Wales and your girlfriend is in Devon.

Your girlfriend should get advice in Devon and take her grandparents with her.

They can seek your input over the phone, so there is no need for you to travel.

A draft MR can be e-mailed to all concerned, for all to agree final version.

So all in all, it is a simple process.

PIPnewbie

@poppy123456

What about mentioning that she was distressed at the consultation and even broke down into tears?  Which is how she would be but much worse if she had to travel alone.

PIPnewbie

poppy123456 said:

I just found this in that guide i posted a link for, that may concern your girlfriend because i do remember you stated the taking nutrition descriptor and this is the very reason i keep advising you to get some help.

Taking nutrition...

This activity considers a person’s ability to be nourished, either by cutting food into pieces, conveying it to the mouth and chewing and swallowing; or through the use of therapeutic sources.

The defined term ‘taking nutrition’ refers solely to the act of eating and drinking and so the quality of what is being consumed is irrelevant for the purposes of daily living activity 2. Therefore, if for any reason a claimant elects to have a bad or restricted diet, makes dietary choices or chooses to avoid certain foods as part of dietary requirements, they are nevertheless ‘taking nutrition’ to an acceptable standard and therefore will not score under activity 2.

She has temporomandibular joint dysfunction so cannot chew properly. This is why her grandmother cuts her food small for her, which she told the assessor.

Can you send me a link to that full guide if it concerns all descriptors? 

atlas46 said:

Hi

I see you live in Wales and your girlfriend is in Devon.

Your girlfriend should get advice in Devon and take her grandparents with her.

They can seek your input over the phone, so there is no need for you to travel.

A draft MR can be e-mailed to all concerned, for all to agree final version.

So all in all, it is a simple process.

 Thanks Atlas.  She is sleeping right now (as she does a lot) so I will let her know the advice when she calls me after waking.

atlas46

Hi

Its the oral morphine, my friend.

poppy123456

I already posted the link, have you even looked? It contains all of the descriptors.

PIPnewbie

atlas46 said:

Hi

Its the oral morphine, my friend.

She's generally tired from Crohn's, constantly being up and down for the toilet, not eating much, and fibromyalgia, but yes, as soon as she takes the oral morphine, she is out all day.

This is the person the DWP have deemed needs only standard daily living and only after being awarded square-on 8 points to just get it.  Disgraceful.

Can medication that causes tiredness count towards the descriptors? 

@p@poppy123456

Sorry Poppy, I must have missed it.  I'll scroll up now.

atlas46

PIPnewbie said:

atlas46 said:

Hi

Its the oral morphine, my friend.

She's generally tired from Crohn's, constantly being up and down for the toilet, not eating much, and fibromyalgia, but yes, as soon as she takes the oral morphine, she is out all day.

This is the person the DWP have deemed needs only standard daily living and only after being awarded square-on 8 points to just get it.  Disgraceful.

Can medication that causes tiredness count towards the descriptors? 

@p@poppy123456

Sorry Poppy, I must have missed it.  I'll scroll up now.

Hi

Yes of course oral morphine, must be taken into account, when assessing a PIP claimant. This is only prescribed for servere pain and has a number of side effects.

But your girlfriends assessor, failed, through blind ignornace to acknowledge this!

PIPnewbie

atlas46 said:

PIPnewbie said:

atlas46 said:

Hi

Its the oral morphine, my friend.

She's generally tired from Crohn's, constantly being up and down for the toilet, not eating much, and fibromyalgia, but yes, as soon as she takes the oral morphine, she is out all day.

This is the person the DWP have deemed needs only standard daily living and only after being awarded square-on 8 points to just get it.  Disgraceful.

Can medication that causes tiredness count towards the descriptors? 

@p@poppy123456

Sorry Poppy, I must have missed it.  I'll scroll up now.

Hi

Yes of course oral morphine, must be taken into account, when assessing a PIP claimant. This is only prescribed for servere pain and has a number of side effects.

But your girlfriends assessor, failed, through blind ignornace to acknowledge this!

Thanks again Atlas.

This is why I can't understand why mentioning she fell asleep does no good.  It's like the DWP does not care about the assessor's poor judgement and/or blatant exaggeration/lies.

poppy123456

Which is why getting help going forward is the best thing to do. People on a forum can't advise you on case law, or anything like that because we're not experts. Only 17% of MR decisions change and it may well be that she will have to take it to Tribunal, where appearing in person will give her the best chance of a decision in her favour. Please find out what advice centre is in her area that can help. I wish her good luck.

Yadnad

atlas46 said:

Hi

Yes of course oral morphine, must be taken into account, when assessing a PIP claimant. This is only prescribed for servere pain and has a number of side effects.

But your girlfriends assessor, failed, through blind ignornace to acknowledge this!

Let me burst your bubble gently.

Amongst the carrier bag of medication that I am on every month, it includes Oramorph (liquid morphine) and Morphine MST (12 hour lasting morphine tablets)
All in all, on an average day I take 90mg of MST twice a day and as much Oramorph as I need. (there is no restriction).

In all of my three assessments, all three assessors indicated that that level of pain relief was low and that the strength was low to moderate.
So in a way Paracetamol would have the same effect as the Morphine.

They disregarded the side effects that I claimed on the PIP2 as not severe enough to be an issue.

Having said all of that I have to admit that I am someone that always tries to look on the bright side of life and appear to the general population to have no medical or mental health problems.

Maybe claimants should drop their façade when dealing with the DWP and let them see how they are behind closed doors. In other words be the suicidal case that you fight against every day but no one knows about.

PIPnewbie

Yadnad said:

atlas46 said:

Hi

Yes of course oral morphine, must be taken into account, when assessing a PIP claimant. This is only prescribed for servere pain and has a number of side effects.

But your girlfriends assessor, failed, through blind ignornace to acknowledge this!

Let me burst your bubble gently.

Amongst the carrier bag of medication that I am on every month, it includes Oramorph (liquid morphine) and Morphine MST (12 hour lasting morphine tablets)
All in all, on an average day I take 90mg of MST twice a day and as much Oramorph as I need. (there is no restriction).

In all of my three assessments, all three assessors indicated that that level of pain relief was low and that the strength was low to moderate.
So in a way Paracetamol would have the same effect as the Morphine.

They disregarded the side effects that I claimed on the PIP2 as not severe enough to be an issue.

Having said all of that I have to admit that I am someone that always tries to look on the bright side of life and appear to the general population to have no medical or mental health problems.

Maybe claimants should drop their façade when dealing with the DWP and let them see how they are behind closed doors. In other words be the suicidal case that you fight against every day but no one knows about.

Unbelievable.  What was their justification for this?!

Also, turns out we've been wrong about the 9 month award.  That was an assumption based on the assessor's recommendation in the report.  The actual award letter says it was until June 2020.