Just to ask if anyone can help with PCN ticket? - Page 2 — Scope | Disability forum
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Just to ask if anyone can help with PCN ticket?

2

Comments

  • tobehappy
    tobehappy Community member Posts: 21 Listener
    Thanks Markmywords & Poppy but it’s a case that  need answers for & maybe have to accept the PCN or seek legal advice. I certainly do not want a accept the ticket & have asked the Northampton Council & Highways for answers to no avail. Legal answers needed on 
    1) Is it an actually a legal offence when someone forgets to display badge clock even though BB regulations state you must? ( The council acknowledged my B.B. but stated I neglected to display the correct time in their response. Really harsh I wrote back to them as being absented minded & forgot. )
    2) Is it a legal requirement for 24hours 7days a week enforcement to have signs to display this?
    3) Is it a legal requirement to allow able bodied free parking after 6.00pm with no restrictions on one side of the road but enforce the 24hours 7days a week 3hour time limit for disabled parking. 

  • poppy123456
    poppy123456 Community member Posts: 53,330 Disability Gamechanger
    Have you looked for expert advice? Surely time is ticking for this parking fine to be paid otherwise it's going to escalate further.
    I would appreciate it if members wouldn't tag me please. I have all notifcations turned off and wouldn't want a member thinking i'm being rude by not replying.
    If i see a question that i know the answer to i will try my best to help.
  • Markmywords
    Markmywords Community member Posts: 419 Pioneering
    Time restrictions are absolutely fixed. If one is using the badge privileges a different set of rules apply. It is very very petty though to enforce them when the non-disabled rules have turned off.
    However there is no connection to a badge clock in any event. The clock setting does not cause an overstay. Physically being there too long does.Clock mistakes are simply not punishable in law.
    The wording on the ticket is everything.
  • tobehappy
    tobehappy Community member Posts: 21 Listener
    Only have until Tuesday to pay as they didn’t respond to my appeal until earlier this week. That’s why I was asking for help. Other than that will be served Notice to Owner. 
    The clock setting did cause the problem though as that’s what they used in photo evidence when issuing ticket. Time showed 15.30 on Badge. (As I forgot to change the time from previous use)
    Actual wording on ticket 
    Contravention: Code 300
    Parked for longer than permitted ( blue badge holder)
    Observed from 21.18 to 21.25
    Therefore it does go by what’s on your badge clock time. 
  • Markmywords
    Markmywords Community member Posts: 419 Pioneering
    They have no evidence and are quoting the clock?
    They don't have a leg to stand on. Are you prepared to fight though?
    I've been there and done that. I won.
  • tobehappy
    tobehappy Community member Posts: 21 Listener
    I am now Markmywords. I’ve also looked at that Code 300 there’s no such code. It should be code 30. Not only that I’ve also looked up that they are supposed to wait 10mins to issue an instant PCN ....they only waited 7mins if you check their times of  observing the car at 21.18 & they it issued at 21.25. There’s 2 mistakes they have also made. As I said we are only human & can make errors. Will they be penilised for their mistake!
  • tobehappy
    tobehappy Community member Posts: 21 Listener
    What happened in your case Markmywords. It’s all good to know if it helps others. 
  • Markmywords
    Markmywords Community member Posts: 419 Pioneering
    edited October 2018
    I parked in a time-limited bay on a public road. I completely forgot to set the clock and it was at something random.
    A ticket was left that said "failed to display a valid blue badge in disabled bay."
    I appealed online saying that I certainly did have and display a current badge and that I had checked and the wrongly set clock did not by law invalidate a ticket. The warden was trying it on.
    The council wrote back with an acceptance of the error and included a photo of the badge in the car taken by the warden which completely disproved their own position.
    They couldn't let it lie though and included the threat "if at some point in the future you do fail to display a valid badge we will use the full weight of he law." Petty little bureaucrats.
    The law does say you must set the clock but there is no punishment if you don't. Just as parking on a verge is illegal but on it's own carries no penalty.
    So as the clock is set by the driver, who can make a mistake, it is not sufficient to be used as evidence.
  • tobehappy
    tobehappy Community member Posts: 21 Listener
    I have to laugh markmywords as yet again they make another mistake. You did exactly the same thing as me by forgetting to set your clock despite like me having your badge on display. They never gave you a ticket on forgetting the clock issue but gave you it on the badge. I am glad you appealed it as they did not even issue the correct PCN code.
    Thats 1)incorrect code they gave me on the ticket although definitely a mistake 2) Failing to wait the10minute observation time before issuing an instant ticket (they waited 7 for mine) & 3) issuing you a ticket for failing to display badge & not issuing it for clock setting. Just terrible isn’t it. 
    Funny you mentioned insufficient evidence on the clock issue as that is exactly what they are using with myself. As I said before penilised for forgetting or in their words I neglected to set the correct time. 
  • Markmywords
    Markmywords Community member Posts: 419 Pioneering
    I was relieved that the council didn't fight to the bitter end in spite of the facts. We've all seen lots of evidence on here of the public sector disobeying their own rules and even statues too.
  • tobehappy
    tobehappy Community member Posts: 21 Listener
    They are certainly not accepting my reasons Markmywords. Disgraceful I think especially when it was evidenced for my being there & my apology for admitting my mistake. Mmm decisions decisions lol. 
  • tobehappy
    tobehappy Community member Posts: 21 Listener
    Just an update on my PCN ticket. As my informal challenge failed I decided to appeal formally & had to wait on my Notice to Owner to come through to do this. NTO has also been rejected by the council again with the same reason as before. Got it yesterday. ( Nice Xmas present !) They did not mention anything on what I had written except after considering my appeal it was rejected. They clearly wrote againThe BB handbook clearly states that in England & Wales, where you park on yellow lines or another place where there is a time restriction you need to display the blue badge parking disc to show your time of arrival of arrival As a 3hour time limit applies 
    As the driver had failed to comply with the guidelines regarding their use of the BB & neglected to set their clock correctly, I am unable to withdraw the PCN. I am sorry that I am unable to offer you a more favourable outcome on this occasion. This is the exact same wording as before. It appears that they have not even read my reasons for appealing. I am certainly going to appeal this further to TPT & hope for the best & in my favour. 
  • poppy123456
    poppy123456 Community member Posts: 53,330 Disability Gamechanger
    You were parked on double yellow lines in on street parking. The 3 hour time limit applies, what ever time of day/night you park. I'm still really confused why you think they're wrong. Forgetting to set the time on your BB isn't going to help you here, it's your responsibility to make sure it's set. I really do wish you good luck in appealing this further.
    I would appreciate it if members wouldn't tag me please. I have all notifcations turned off and wouldn't want a member thinking i'm being rude by not replying.
    If i see a question that i know the answer to i will try my best to help.
  • Markmywords
    Markmywords Community member Posts: 419 Pioneering
    "Need to display the blue badge parking disc." The BB handbook is not the law. As with the Highway Code, "should" means one thing but "must" is a reference to the law.

    "Failed to comply with the guidelines"
    Wow, it's like they are self-destructing right in front of you. Guidelines aren't statutory offences. Duh !

    All the above and claiming the clock setting proves an overstay!

    If you have exhausted the Council's process then yes you might be at the stage for the Traffic Penalty Tribunal

    The word "jobsworth" was invented for local councils. They mustn't get away with trying to re-write the law to suit themselves.

    Best of luck
  • tobehappy
    tobehappy Community member Posts: 21 Listener
    I agree Guidelines are not statutory & not set in stone. The other reason is there was no yellow lines just a small sign over 7 metres away from where I was parked & it was fairly dark at the time when I arrived around 7ish for the theatre. An appeal for parking mistakes is there to be used & to be called neglectful is insulting. Everyone can forget at times not withstanding already having other mental issue to contend with.  I have nothing to lose now Poppy & Markmywords so TPT here I come. 
  • tobehappy
    tobehappy Community member Posts: 21 Listener
    Poppy I didn’t say they were wrong, I was appealing for a simple parking error of forgetting to set clock badge time & given the time of night I was parked,no yellow lines & supplying the evidence for being there I think it’s worth an appeal. To be perfectly honest the theatre is parked right opposite where I was parked in Guildhall Road Northampton. 
  • Yadnad
    Yadnad Posts: 2,856 Disability Gamechanger
    edited December 2018
    Isn't this an absolute offence? One of the conditions for allowing you to park where you did is that you place your clock showing the time of arrival with your badge on the dashboard.
    It doesn't matter if you forgot or a mouse ran over it and tipped it over or that a tornado bounced the car so that it fell on the floor the clock was not showing the time of parking up.
    Many times I have had to go back to the car if I can't remember putting the Blue Badge up or even locking the car.
    Being forgetful is not acceptable. The next time I go into Currys and walk out with a 55" TV and if stopped expecting my excuse to be accepted - oh I forgot to pay?
    Or maybe forgetting to lock the front door of the home and finding in the morning that you had been burgled. I doubt that the insurance company would pay out if they were told that you just forget to lock up when I went to bed.

    Surely the stress of all of this argument and attending hearings isn't worth the  £120 fine?
  • tobehappy
    tobehappy Community member Posts: 21 Listener
    Hiya everyone just to let you that I won my PCN appeal. No offence..no case. Just been heard today with TPT. Thank you for input & thank goodness it’s over. 
  • clp
    clp Community member Posts: 39 Connected
    @tobehappy
    Well done and also thanks for the warning - I live in Northampton.  The parking for blue badge holders is often confusing and they do seem to have a tendency to "lose" yellow lines.
  • Markmywords
    Markmywords Community member Posts: 419 Pioneering
    Well done @tobehappy . Justice has prevailed plus you might have helped other disabled people in the future if it makes the local authority think twice.
    You've been strong, victorious and vindicated. :)

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