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Finding out the dates that someone stopped caring for someone

jo42 Member Posts: 5 Listener
Sorry for the confusing title. Its my first post here.
It has come to my attention that my disabled friend has had his eesa benefit stopped as he has not returned the esa50 form that was sent to him. He is unable to speak clearly and has limited understanding so can not help me with information. 

I was under the impression he had an official carer (claiming carers allowance) but it seems they have withdrawn their care. 

I phoned Carers Allowance to try and find out for definate if there was someone who claimed carers allowance for him but they cannot discuss the 'third person's benefit' with me or him. So I am not sure if anyone was 'responsible' for his care. 

I phoned dwp for advice and explained that this disabled has had his benefits stopped and I am trying to find out if he has a carer as I think they have withdrawn their care. Again they could not confirm that but she did say 'the benefit claim suggests that no-one is caring for him' I then explained that due to having no carers he has been unable to send his esa50 form back. To cut a long story short that phonecall became a mandatory reconcideration on why the form was not returned with out my full knowledge and he later recieved an MR notice saying that his MR failed. It is now going to tribunal.  

I would like to know the date the Carer withdrew their care (if they have) I don't need a name just confirmation that he has no carer. 

I have stated to the best of my ability in the appeal that if his Carer has stepped down then my friend has not got the physical skills to open, fill inand return letters and they have no clear speech to explain to me or anyone else their situation.

In the appeal I wanted to include an official date or statement from Carers that this gentlemans carer has withdrawn their care as evidence to back up my reason for the esa50 form not being returned. It is too late now as I have had to send it off. 

I have been working out their esa benefit from a recent bank statement They were in receipt of 254.30 a fortnight which is 127.15 a week made up of 110.75 esa and 16.40 enhanced disability premium. There is no Severe disability premium of 64.30 which I think should be there if he DID NOT have a carer. 

If he has still got a carer and they(dwp) know then I'm going to look like I've lied
Any suggestions on how to obtain the date or confirmation that his carer has stopped.
Thanks for any advice/guidance


  • poppy123456
    poppy123456 Member Posts: 28,435 Disability Gamechanger
    edited October 2018
    Does he claim DLA mid/high rate care or daily living PIP? Without any of these being awarded no one claim carers allowance for looking after him and he couldn't claim the SDP in with the ESA payments.

    You can have a carer without someone claiming carers allowance for looking after you.

    Does he have a social worker?
  • jo42
    jo42 Member Posts: 5 Listener
    Hi he has pip at the highest rate for both components. No social worker .
    I'm  trying to get his benefits reinstated on his behalf as his direct debits have been unpaid etc. .
  • poppy123456
    poppy123456 Member Posts: 28,435 Disability Gamechanger
    Then if no one has been claiming carers allowance for him and he lives alone or is classed as living alone then he should have been claiming SDP. As his ESA has stopped he won't be able to claim that until he payments re-start and because the MR decision remained the same then he will have to continue with the Tribunal. If the Tribunal accept the reasons for not returning the form then the ESA will re-start and he won't be able to claim assessment rate for ESA while waiting for Tribunal because he was found fit for work for failing to return the form.

    As he was the one that received the ESA50 form then this means he doesn't have an appointee so it's his responsibility to make sure forms are returned on time.

    I'd advice getting some help with the Tribunal process. Good luck.
  • jo42
    jo42 Member Posts: 5 Listener
    I have already sent a form to appeal. I asked for a paper decision as he cannot possibly get to a tribunal. I know it's his responsibility to send the form back but he hasn't got the physical skills or mental ability to do such a task and seeing as his carer has stepped away without putting anything in place to ensure a continuity of his care I feel it was way beyond his capability to return the  form. Does this sound like a good enough reason. If not what does he claim as he cannot search for work etc he can't even look after himself.
    Thank you for the reply  
  • poppy123456
    poppy123456 Member Posts: 28,435 Disability Gamechanger
    If he's unable to speak properly then how do you know for sure he had someone to look after him? He will need to send evidence to the Tribunal for his reasons for not returning the form. No one can tell you if the reasons you're stating will win him the Tribunal that will totally depend on the evidence he sends.

    As for his care then i think someone should take him to see his GP to see what help and support can be put into place.
  • jo42
    jo42 Member Posts: 5 Listener
    My partner looked after him unofficially for years as he was his best friend since childhood.  My partner passed away so I became his carer and was claiming carers allowance for him. I took care of his benefits and financial affairs for him but as a friend not as an official apointee. I was then told by a third party that a family member of his was going to be his carer and could they have a list of his direct debits etc as they were going to get a bank account open for him. His benefits had always been paid into mine and my partners joint bank account as he could not open his own as he did not have a valid driving licence, marriage certificate ,or passport etc. A few months before my partner passed away they both got their passports so I gave the third party the passport and list of direct debits etc and phoned carers to let them know I am no longer caring for him. That was about 4 years ago. I know he had a bank account set up for him as I got his bank statements here. My son has always popped in too see him and noticed a build up of mail so I opened them for him and thats when I noticed his bank was overdrawn due to unpaid direct debits and his benefits had stopped for failing to return the esa50. He has also fell behind on payment for his Meals on wheels and the emergencey phone pull cord monitoring saftey system as well as utilities  council tax and rent etc.  I'm thinking that he needs to evidence the fact that his carer has withdrawn their services but no one can confirm that thats the case for me. I am not in contact with his family and I don't want to be seen as interfering. I totally misunderstood that the phone call I made for advice on who cares for him became a MR and explained in the appeal letter that I would have gone into more detail about his disabilities had I known that it was my last chance to give an explanation. I do hope I've given enough evidence I have requested that they phone his doctor for a more accurate description of his difficulties will they do this or was I supposed to get a letter off his doctor to include in the appeal letter. Sorry for all the questions my head can't keep up with what I need to do.
  • poppy123456
    poppy123456 Member Posts: 28,435 Disability Gamechanger
    I'm finding it very difficult to read this without paragraphs, i'm really sorry.

    This is extremely complex and you both really do need to get some expert advice here to know the best way forward to help him.

    I'd start with either CAB, welfare rights or law centre which ever is near to him. He will have to go with you because you're not his appointee.

    Then i would contact his GP for help because he clearly needs Social Services help here too. Good luck.
  • jo42
    jo42 Member Posts: 5 Listener
    Thank you for trying I hope the appeal letter I wrote is easier to understand lol.
    This process is so needless. If he had sent the esa50 form back on time he would have been awarded esa with no problems. I understand why his benefit was stopped but can't see a reason how they can uphold the decision that he has not got a limited capability for work. 
    I have written an appeal on his behalf and after describing in detail how his illness affected his ability to open letters and fill out forms. e.g. low muscle tone, poor fine motor skills, poor grip, lack of dexterity, involuntary movements and muscle spasms
    I finished with
    **I hope you understand that it was far beyond my capabilities to return a completed form by myself and I have demonstrated good cause for the failure to return form esa50 by outlining my difficulties.
    I believe I have got limited capability for work due to having advanced Huntington's Disease which has left me unable to care for myself. I have been awarded esa for many years due to Huntington's Disease slowly robbing me of my functionality. It is a degenerative condition of which symptoms worsen over time. My condition will not improve or be cured and to conclude that I am fit for work now would be absurd. I hope I have provided enough information for you to reinstate my esa benefit.**

    I really hope they se sense 

    Even though he would have scored enough points I'm also looking at the reg 29 and 35 and think it may apply to him as he takes medication for psychosis. That is evidenced on his prescription which I included in the appeal letter. So that may help.
    I read the below article
    Safeguards for Claimants 
    25. The guidance reminds HCPs that if at any point they consider that the claimant is a 
    significant suicide risk, they must advise the GP if the claimant’s clinical team are not 
    already aware. It also makes clear that there are claimants who meet the criteria for 
    the Support Group on the basis of regulation 35(2), such as (but not limited to) 
    claimants in the following circumstances: 
      current crisis  or home treatment team intervention 
      currently sectioned or recently discharged from a section of the Mental Health Act  
      psychotic illness considered vulnerable to relapse 
      a history of violent behaviour as a result of a mental health condition that resulted 
    in recent injury to a third party  

    Thank you Poppy for taking the time to reply. I will make an appointment to see CAB and hopefully they can help.
  • poppy123456
    poppy123456 Member Posts: 28,435 Disability Gamechanger
    This Tribunal is because he was found fit for work for failing to return the ESA50 form and this is what you need to concentrate on here. If the Tribunal accept the reasons for not returning the form his ESA will be re-instated but he'll still need to be assessed after that by the health assessment providers.


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