Obscuring parts of evidence letters. Allowable?

PIPnewbie

About to send off a load of letters for mandatory reconsideration for my girlfriend, but was wondering if it’s possible to obscure parts of medical letters that might compromise the claim as it is once instance of something not done regularly and may look bad to the person reviewing? 

poppy123456

Hi,

I'm not even sure why you would even want to even consider doing this. I would highly not recommend you do this.

PIPnewbie

poppy123456 said:

Hi,

I'm not even sure why you would even want to even consider doing this. I would highly not recommend you do this.

Well there are old letters we are sending as well as new but one thing mentions she walks her dog but what she means is she takes her dog out with her mother, not much walking involved, even though it does state what we want that she’s scared to leave home because of an accident due to her Crohn’s.

Peasmold_01

I agree with the previous answer, redacting anything on Official Letters, GP, Hospital etc, would look very suspicious. I would advice against it. 

poppy123456

You need to go through all the evidence you're sending and if there's any contradictions then i'd advise you not to send it. This is one of those very reasons why sometimes less is definitely more!

Misscleo

Sound advice

PIPnewbie

Okay, thanks once again @poppy123456

One more thing, with the "less is more", is this true of the actual mandatory reconsideration cover letter?  Is too much going to have them throw it in the bin and stick by their original decision?

poppy123456

As i've advised many times, you need to be straight to the point, avoid any lies that may have been told in the report. Stick to the descriptors you think apply, give examples of real life struggles and things that have happened in the past based on the descriptors.

I thought your GF was ringing a disability advice centre for help with the MR and Tribunal, if it gets that far and most do.

PIPnewbie

poppy123456 said:

As i've advised many times, you need to be straight to the point, avoid any lies that may have been told in the report. Stick to the descriptors you think apply, give examples of real life struggles and things that have happened in the past based on the descriptors.

I thought your GF was ringing a disability advice centre for help with the MR and Tribunal, if it gets that far and most do.

She rang Crohn's and Colitis helpline, who were good, but not excellent.  Ultimately it's fallen to her to write the letter, but she has asked if I can do it, as the guy on the phone said I can write a letter to say she fell asleep in the waiting room, I unscrewed the bottle for her, etc.

Can I write the letter on her behalf, without being an official appointee?

poppy123456

Anyone can write a letter of support, if they know the claimant well.  It doesn't have to be an appointee. If the MR decision remains the same and the letter isn't used then they may use it at Tribunal. I'm not sure what use stating she fell asleep in the waiting room will do.

I did previously advise you that if you're going to write a letter of support as evidence then you need to look at all the PIP descriptors, decide which ones you both think apply to her and her reasons why they apply. Write the letter of support based on each of those descriptors.

I still think you're completely missing the point and you don't completely understand the descriptors and their meaning.

PIPnewbie

poppy123456 said:

Anyone can write a letter of support, if they know the claimant well.  It doesn't have to be an appointee. If the MR decision remains the same and the letter isn't used then they may use it at Tribunal. I'm not sure what use stating she fell asleep in the waiting room will do.

I did previously advise you that if you're going to write a letter of support as evidence then you need to look at all the PIP descriptors, decide which ones you both think apply to her and her reasons why they apply. Write the letter of support based on each of those descriptors.

I still think you're completely missing the point and you don't completely understand the descriptors and their meaning.

The assessor said she was wide awake and fully alert.  I've seen quite a few people on a Facebook group for PIP say they won MR by pointing out where the report is wrong and correcting it, in the least antagonistic manner possible.

So basically I cannot even mention that I do not agree that her lifting 250 grams of fluid after unscrewing the lid for her should be used to disregard absolutely every descriptor she applied for and gave good reason for, even though it is the most asinine reasoning ever?  That the ludicrousness that the report is littered with cannot even be countered even in the most polite manner?

Obviously we're going to argue the descriptors we feel she meets and why.  But it doesn't seem to have any point if they can just refer back to what the assessor said.

poppy123456

I can only advise you what i know is correct and i wouldn't advise you any other way. DWP or the Tribunal will not be interested in any lies that may have been told in the report. If you think differently then do what you think is right, although i'm not sure why you're asking if that's the case.I posted a link last week for you that explains the descriptors and their meaning, did you look at the link? Here it is again.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/personal-independence-payment-assessment-guide-for-assessment-providers/pip-assessment-guide-part-2-the-assessment-criteria

PIPnewbie

poppy123456 said:

I can only advise you what i know is correct and i wouldn't advise you any other way. DWP or the Tribunal will not be interested in any lies that may have been told in the report. If you think differently then do what you think is right, although i'm not sure why you're asking if that's the case.I posted a link last week for you that explains the descriptors and their meaning, did you look at the link? Here it is again.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/personal-independence-payment-assessment-guide-for-assessment-providers/pip-assessment-guide-part-2-the-assessment-criteria

Thanks for the reply again Poppy.

We will not mention that the assessor lied, just give our version of what happened, in addition to explaining descriptors we feel she meets.  

The guy at Crohn's and Colitis said an MR is for correcting where you feel they are incorrect and what they have not considered.

poppy123456

I still don't understand why you insist on giving your version of what happened during the assessment.

PIPnewbie

poppy123456 said:

I still don't understand why you insist on giving your version of what happened during the assessment.

Because the assessor used one little action... the lifting of around 250ml of fluid to disregard everything in his report.  Everything.  It's his reasoning for why she can cope cooking with just an aid or appliance, just wash and bathe with an aid or appliance, etc.  Does not consider standing, the repetitive nature of these tasks, how much more strength is required, etc.

If we write back explaining all the difficulties all over again like we already have, they're just going to point out that the assessor said she can lift a bottle.

poppy123456

If they think the activity can be completed using an aid, they will give points for using an aid. If assistance is needed then you have to tell them why assistance is needed, why they can't safely use an aid and what happened the last time they did that activity without assistance.

PIPnewbie

poppy123456 said:

If they think the activity can be completed using an aid, they will give points for using an aid. If assistance is needed then you have to tell them why assistance is needed, why they can't safely use an aid and what happened the last time they did that activity without assistance.

That is what we are doing.  But there does not seem to be much point if they can simply refer back to the stupid "plastic bottle" remark by the assessor, so it needs to be countered in addition to further explanation.

Yadnad

PIPnewbie said:

poppy123456 said:

If they think the activity can be completed using an aid, they will give points for using an aid. If assistance is needed then you have to tell them why assistance is needed, why they can't safely use an aid and what happened the last time they did that activity without assistance.

 the stupid "plastic bottle" remark by the assessor

Stupid it may seem, but if you do some lateral thinking, the fact of reaching, lifting removing a screw cap, consuming the contents and then putting the cap back on could be seen to cover a number of descriptors that you had no difficulty in performing.
 
Similarly I have heard it said that holding some papers, maybe a copy of the PIP 2 form can be used against you for a similar reason. Reading notes that you had brought with you or even writing down notes of the assessment are also likely to draw conclusions. 

poppy123456

Thanks @Username_removed i was actually going to advise exactly the same thing about facebook but thought i'd better not. so yes, i completely agree with everything you said about FB.

PIPnewbie

Yadnad said:

PIPnewbie said:

poppy123456 said:

If they think the activity can be completed using an aid, they will give points for using an aid. If assistance is needed then you have to tell them why assistance is needed, why they can't safely use an aid and what happened the last time they did that activity without assistance.

 the stupid "plastic bottle" remark by the assessor

Stupid it may seem, but if you do some lateral thinking, the fact of reaching, lifting removing a screw cap, consuming the contents and then putting the cap back on could be seen to cover a number of descriptors that you had no difficulty in performing.
 
Similarly I have heard it said that holding some papers, maybe a copy of the PIP 2 form can be used against you for a similar reason. Reading notes that you had brought with you or even writing down notes of the assessment are also likely to draw conclusions. 

I just don't see how lifting a 250 gram bottle of liquid after I had unscrewed it for her btw (assessor lied) can be seen as her being able to open sealed jars, cut with knives repetitively, lift herself into the shower, and so on.

Yadnad

PIPnewbie said:

 

I just don't see how lifting a 250 gram bottle of liquid after I had unscrewed it for her btw (assessor lied) can be seen as her being able to open sealed jars, cut with knives repetitively, lift herself into the shower, and so on.

There doesn't have to be a direct connection - a conclusion drawn from the observation would generally be enough for the assessor.