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Obscuring parts of evidence letters. Allowable?

PIPnewbiePIPnewbie Member Posts: 268 Pioneering
About to send off a load of letters for mandatory reconsideration for my girlfriend, but was wondering if it’s possible to obscure parts of medical letters that might compromise the claim as it is once instance of something not done regularly and may look bad to the person reviewing? 

Replies

  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    Hi,

    I'm not even sure why you would even want to even consider doing this. I would highly not recommend you do this.
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • PIPnewbiePIPnewbie Member Posts: 268 Pioneering
    Hi,

    I'm not even sure why you would even want to even consider doing this. I would highly not recommend you do this.

    Well there are old letters we are sending as well as new but one thing mentions she walks her dog but what she means is she takes her dog out with her mother, not much walking involved, even though it does state what we want that she’s scared to leave home because of an accident due to her Crohn’s.
  • Peasmold_01Peasmold_01 Member Posts: 144 Pioneering
    I agree with the previous answer, redacting anything on Official Letters, GP, Hospital etc, would look very suspicious. I would advice against it. 
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    You need to go through all the evidence you're sending and if there's any contradictions then i'd advise you not to send it. This is one of those very reasons why sometimes less is definitely more!
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • MisscleoMisscleo Member Posts: 646 Pioneering
  • PIPnewbiePIPnewbie Member Posts: 268 Pioneering
    Okay, thanks once again @poppy123456

    One more thing, with the "less is more", is this true of the actual mandatory reconsideration cover letter?  Is too much going to have them throw it in the bin and stick by their original decision?
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    As i've advised many times, you need to be straight to the point, avoid any lies that may have been told in the report. Stick to the descriptors you think apply, give examples of real life struggles and things that have happened in the past based on the descriptors.

    I thought your GF was ringing a disability advice centre for help with the MR and Tribunal, if it gets that far and most do.
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • PIPnewbiePIPnewbie Member Posts: 268 Pioneering
    As i've advised many times, you need to be straight to the point, avoid any lies that may have been told in the report. Stick to the descriptors you think apply, give examples of real life struggles and things that have happened in the past based on the descriptors.

    I thought your GF was ringing a disability advice centre for help with the MR and Tribunal, if it gets that far and most do.
    She rang Crohn's and Colitis helpline, who were good, but not excellent.  Ultimately it's fallen to her to write the letter, but she has asked if I can do it, as the guy on the phone said I can write a letter to say she fell asleep in the waiting room, I unscrewed the bottle for her, etc.

    Can I write the letter on her behalf, without being an official appointee?
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    Anyone can write a letter of support, if they know the claimant well.  It doesn't have to be an appointee. If the MR decision remains the same and the letter isn't used then they may use it at Tribunal. I'm not sure what use stating she fell asleep in the waiting room will do.

    I did previously advise you that if you're going to write a letter of support as evidence then you need to look at all the PIP descriptors, decide which ones you both think apply to her and her reasons why they apply. Write the letter of support based on each of those descriptors.

    I still think you're completely missing the point and you don't completely understand the descriptors and their meaning.
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • PIPnewbiePIPnewbie Member Posts: 268 Pioneering
    edited October 2018
    Anyone can write a letter of support, if they know the claimant well.  It doesn't have to be an appointee. If the MR decision remains the same and the letter isn't used then they may use it at Tribunal. I'm not sure what use stating she fell asleep in the waiting room will do.

    I did previously advise you that if you're going to write a letter of support as evidence then you need to look at all the PIP descriptors, decide which ones you both think apply to her and her reasons why they apply. Write the letter of support based on each of those descriptors.

    I still think you're completely missing the point and you don't completely understand the descriptors and their meaning.
    The assessor said she was wide awake and fully alert.  I've seen quite a few people on a Facebook group for PIP say they won MR by pointing out where the report is wrong and correcting it, in the least antagonistic manner possible.

    So basically I cannot even mention that I do not agree that her lifting 250 grams of fluid after unscrewing the lid for her should be used to disregard absolutely every descriptor she applied for and gave good reason for, even though it is the most asinine reasoning ever?  That the ludicrousness that the report is littered with cannot even be countered even in the most polite manner?

    Obviously we're going to argue the descriptors we feel she meets and why.  But it doesn't seem to have any point if they can just refer back to what the assessor said.
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    I can only advise you what i know is correct and i wouldn't advise you any other way. DWP or the Tribunal will not be interested in any lies that may have been told in the report. If you think differently then do what you think is right, although i'm not sure why you're asking if that's the case.I posted a link last week for you that explains the descriptors and their meaning, did you look at the link? Here it is again.

    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • PIPnewbiePIPnewbie Member Posts: 268 Pioneering
    I can only advise you what i know is correct and i wouldn't advise you any other way. DWP or the Tribunal will not be interested in any lies that may have been told in the report. If you think differently then do what you think is right, although i'm not sure why you're asking if that's the case.I posted a link last week for you that explains the descriptors and their meaning, did you look at the link? Here it is again.

    Thanks for the reply again Poppy.

    We will not mention that the assessor lied, just give our version of what happened, in addition to explaining descriptors we feel she meets.  

    The guy at Crohn's and Colitis said an MR is for correcting where you feel they are incorrect and what they have not considered.
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    I still don't understand why you insist on giving your version of what happened during the assessment.
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • PIPnewbiePIPnewbie Member Posts: 268 Pioneering
    edited October 2018
    I still don't understand why you insist on giving your version of what happened during the assessment.
    Because the assessor used one little action... the lifting of around 250ml of fluid to disregard everything in his report.  Everything.  It's his reasoning for why she can cope cooking with just an aid or appliance, just wash and bathe with an aid or appliance, etc.  Does not consider standing, the repetitive nature of these tasks, how much more strength is required, etc.

    If we write back explaining all the difficulties all over again like we already have, they're just going to point out that the assessor said she can lift a bottle.
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    If they think the activity can be completed using an aid, they will give points for using an aid. If assistance is needed then you have to tell them why assistance is needed, why they can't safely use an aid and what happened the last time they did that activity without assistance.
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • PIPnewbiePIPnewbie Member Posts: 268 Pioneering
    If they think the activity can be completed using an aid, they will give points for using an aid. If assistance is needed then you have to tell them why assistance is needed, why they can't safely use an aid and what happened the last time they did that activity without assistance.
    That is what we are doing.  But there does not seem to be much point if they can simply refer back to the stupid "plastic bottle" remark by the assessor, so it needs to be countered in addition to further explanation.
  • YadnadYadnad Posts: 2,856 Member
    edited October 2018
    PIPnewbie said:
    If they think the activity can be completed using an aid, they will give points for using an aid. If assistance is needed then you have to tell them why assistance is needed, why they can't safely use an aid and what happened the last time they did that activity without assistance.
     the stupid "plastic bottle" remark by the assessor
    Stupid it may seem, but if you do some lateral thinking, the fact of reaching, lifting removing a screw cap, consuming the contents and then putting the cap back on could be seen to cover a number of descriptors that you had no difficulty in performing.
     
    Similarly I have heard it said that holding some papers, maybe a copy of the PIP 2 form can be used against you for a similar reason. Reading notes that you had brought with you or even writing down notes of the assessment are also likely to draw conclusions. 
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 5,937 Disability Gamechanger
    I can only echo everything said by @poppy123456 so far. However, I have to add that if there is one single piece of advice I could give anyone it would be to not get any advice whatsoever from Facebook. It’s the Wild West of advice age there are numerous claimant experts, benefit lawyers and assorted people with negligible actual knowledge and whose advice is often either illegal; dangerous and potentially financially costly. 
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    Thanks @mikehughescq i was actually going to advise exactly the same thing about facebook but thought i'd better not. :D so yes, i completely agree with everything you said about FB.
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • PIPnewbiePIPnewbie Member Posts: 268 Pioneering
    Yadnad said:
    PIPnewbie said:
    If they think the activity can be completed using an aid, they will give points for using an aid. If assistance is needed then you have to tell them why assistance is needed, why they can't safely use an aid and what happened the last time they did that activity without assistance.
     the stupid "plastic bottle" remark by the assessor
    Stupid it may seem, but if you do some lateral thinking, the fact of reaching, lifting removing a screw cap, consuming the contents and then putting the cap back on could be seen to cover a number of descriptors that you had no difficulty in performing.
     
    Similarly I have heard it said that holding some papers, maybe a copy of the PIP 2 form can be used against you for a similar reason. Reading notes that you had brought with you or even writing down notes of the assessment are also likely to draw conclusions. 
    I just don't see how lifting a 250 gram bottle of liquid after I had unscrewed it for her btw (assessor lied) can be seen as her being able to open sealed jars, cut with knives repetitively, lift herself into the shower, and so on.
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 5,937 Disability Gamechanger
    I think the main points are being missed here.

    17% of MRs change the original decision.

    Putting in old letters is pointless unless they make a specific point which can’t be made any other way. They potentially weaken your case.

    Find 2 or 3 patently wrong but verifiable things wrong with the HCP report to make the point about inaccuracy. Make the point then move on and focus on the points to be scored and the actual supporting evidence for that.

    The concentration on the 1 statement about lifting the bottle is not the wrong but verifiable fact you’re looking for. It’s going nowhere fast. It also suggests as @poppy123456 has stated that you have misunderstood the descriptors and indeed the fact that your decision letter is a standard computer generated letter. To read it as she said x and so therefore a, b, c and d don’t apply is far too literal. It’s highly unlikely that 1 assertion will have informed most of the decision regardless of what the decision letter says.




  • YadnadYadnad Posts: 2,856 Member
    PIPnewbie said:



     
    I just don't see how lifting a 250 gram bottle of liquid after I had unscrewed it for her btw (assessor lied) can be seen as her being able to open sealed jars, cut with knives repetitively, lift herself into the shower, and so on.
    There doesn't have to be a direct connection - a conclusion drawn from the observation would generally be enough for the assessor.
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