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Pip tribunal

Barlow88
Barlow88 Member Posts: 29 Connected
Got my pip tribunal next week and I'm already feeling nervous about it 

Comments

  • justg72
    justg72 Member Posts: 173 Pioneering
    Hi Barlow88
    Its normal to feel nervous, I am waiting for mine and I know I will be the same just before. In fact I think the whole process f\rom start to finish is really stressful. I would try to stay positive. Have you had any help from an advisor regarding your tribunal? have they said you have a strong case? I hope it goes well for you. Good luck and let us know how it went if you can. Keep your chin up, fingers crossed. Lets hope you get awarded what you have been fighting for.
  • mikehughescq
    mikehughescq Member Posts: 7,548 Disability Gamechanger
    Here’s some stuff I give people verbally.

    1) Concentrate wholly on what you were like on the date of claim.

    2) There are no “trick” questions. Tribunals are usually listed 20 minutes apart so, apart from the appeal papers, they need questions which cut across lots of functions. So the car question is brilliant because it indicates grip; mobility; dexterity; the ability to do something repeatedly; concentration and stamina. Instead of thinking negatively about such stuff think about what they’re getting at and your answers will be much better and more detailed. Similar questions include whether you’ve been on holiday recently. It feeds into mobility (getting across an airport); stamina; the ability to cope alone; the need for aids and appliances.

    3) There are no set rules or order for a hearing beyind the requirement that it must be seen to be fair. 

    4) Watch the judge’s pen. All three members may take notes but only the judge writes a record of proceedings. If you don’t want them to miss anything then remember that they can’t write as fast as you can speak, so watch their pen and slow down. Don’t worry about going too slow. They will tell you if you do.

    5) Never interrupt any tribunal member. It is perfectly okay to challenge them provided it’s not rude or aggressive. However, think about whether what you’re challenging them on is directly related to points. If it’s not then better to focus on points. This is especially important because loads of people second guess the demeanour of tribunal members as determining whether they are pro or against and it’s largely nonsense. An aggressive, challenging member may well just be a poor communicator and wholly on your side right up to the point you challenge them etc.

    6) Get yourself a representative and travel to the venue by whatever means makes you feel comfortable. It’s only ever an issue if you don’t explain what you did in full and if doing so contradicts your other evidence in some way for daily living and /or mobility.

    7) Same goes for clothes. You need to wear whatever makes you feel comfortable and relaxed. If you’re not relaxed then the likelihood of you presenting well are much reduced. Dressing down is not a good idea unless that all you can afford. A person who feels naked without make-up or a suit abd tie will similarly be over stressed if they try to pretend they’re in their comfort zone dressing down. 

    8) Other people’s tribunal experience can be valuable but it’s just that. Their experience. If they lost then it’s the tribunal to blame. If they win they everything they did is why they won and what you must do. The truth is usually very much in between.

    9) Know your case. What points are you going for and why. What’s your evidence? “The HCP was a liar” is neither evidence nor a winning strategy. Also, know the appeal papers. What’s where. 

    10) Do not be tempted to claim you’ve worsened since the date of claim. That’s a recipe for a failed appeal and an invitation to make another claim. Even if you have got worse always concentrate on your date of claim and what you were like then.

    As far as reps. are concerned:

    You can be 

    - a representative - you don’t talk for the appellant because they’re there but you do get to outline what award you’re looking for and what the legal case is as well as pick up on any issues the tribunal or appellant miss or misinterpret.

    - observer - sits away from the tribunal but you are watching only. You do not and cannot take part.

    - witness - you give your own evidence to support the appellants own case. You don’t get to comment on anything else. You watch silently, do your bit and you’re done.

    - appellant - the person making the claim being appealed. The only person allowed to present their evidence and answer questions on it unless they have an appointee. 

    Most family members struggle to be observers as it’s hard to be silent. They struggle to represent as they don’t know enough of the law, case law or guidance and confuse the role with speaking for the appellant and get shot down in flames to the detriment of the case. They often make poor witnesses as they haven’t been prepared by a rep and want to rehear the whole case instead of focusing on what they know. 

    The temptation to talk for any appellant needs to be resisted. You’ll always get people saying “but...

    - they’re not articulate.

    - they’re nervous.

    and many other arguments. Bottom line - nothing makes the case for the consequences of someone’s ill health better than a poorly appellant. 

    The other side of having representative is that, as you’ll read on here, people get incredibly stressed with the process; what comes when; what letters mean; what is good evidence; what will happen on the day. A good rep explains all and covers all the bases. It’s typical that people think representation is just about what happens on the day and the outcome. That’s about 10% of what gets done. A good rep should also keep you off web forums (seriously). All your questions should be answered by them. If people come on here because they need answers and they have a rep. that is concerning. 

    Now, having said that, tribunals are inquisitorial so it’s perfectly possible to win a case without a rep just as it’s equally possible to lose a case with a rep. However, a badly presented case can win with a decent tribunal but won’t with a poor one People who have won without representation tend to almost always ascribe this to something they did rather than the skill of the tribunal pulling out what was relevant. Having seen tribunals over three decades, including many times as an observer, it’s almost never the case. I’ve never yet heard of anyone unrepresented winning two tribunals for themselves. 

    Finally, don’t confuse an organisation with a good reputation as meaning all their reps will be good. Good organisations have bad reps. Reputationally poor organisation have good reps. How can you tell? Walk away from anyone who wants to tell you their success rate? It’s a fave tactic of organisations that charge but also of inexperienced or renegade/boastful reps. That tells you that they’re either lying or cherry picking only cases which are clear cut winners and probably would be anyway with a decent tribunal and without them. Good reps do not guarantee a win but they will take in winnsble cases rather than likely winners and they’re the more likely to turn a marginal case into a winner. They’ll also know their law, case law and guidance and be able to cite it but in plain English. 

  • judy21
    judy21 Member Posts: 18 Connected
    Do you have to appear at a tribunal that would just freak me out especially after having a bad accessor could you just forward your evidence 
  • poppy123456
    poppy123456 Member Posts: 23,919 Disability Gamechanger
    judy21 said:
    Do you have to appear at a tribunal that would just freak me out especially after having a bad accessor could you just forward your evidence 
    Yes, for the best chance of a decision going in your favour, it's better to appear in person. The Tribunal will to hear from you in your own words how your condition affects you and they won't be able to do this without appearing in person.

  • judy21
    judy21 Member Posts: 18 Connected
    But I’m one of those people that could be dying and I don’t look I’ll never have and feel I get judged for that as the assecor did 😳
  • poppy123456
    poppy123456 Member Posts: 23,919 Disability Gamechanger
    Lots of other people also suffer from invisible conditions but appearing in person will give you the best chance. A Tribunal are a lot more understanding that DWP and any HCP.
  • judy21
    judy21 Member Posts: 18 Connected
    Judy just feel she judged me and then changed lots of stuff I’ve always been a string person and hard to change that even when it all goes wrong I’m half of what I was but to someone that doesn’t know me prob thinks I’m fine 
  • poppy123456
    poppy123456 Member Posts: 23,919 Disability Gamechanger
    Again it's the same for a lot of people. It's your responsibility to prove those descriptors apply to you. Remember PIP is about how your conditions affect your ability to carry out the activities based on the PIP descriptors.

  • CockneyRebel
    CockneyRebel Member Posts: 5,217 Disability Gamechanger
    Many of us find ways to manage and cope with our conditions, but that does not mean that our lives are not impacted on.
    You may well do certain things in a different way to other people. It might take you longer or leave you needing to rest.
    Also remember that you must be able to complete the activity Safely,  repeatedly and for the majority of time  for that descriptor to apply
    Be all you can be, make  every day count. Namaste
  • Yadnad
    Yadnad Posts: 2,856 Member
    judy21 said:
    Do you have to appear at a tribunal that would just freak me out especially after having a bad accessor could you just forward your evidence 
    I have a great deal of sympathy for those that are finding going to a tribunal stressful and over whelming. Sometimes people don't understand this. Some claimants give up at that stage because of what is involved. 
    I am hoping that the roll out of virtual hearings takes place at a faster pace. Much more comfortable to sit at home and have the hearing via your computer/laptop.
     
  • judy21
    judy21 Member Posts: 18 Connected
    Yeah I dread the thought was bad enough having the lady here saying I looked wel and not even tired which is strange as I hardly sleep and feel knackered all the time 
  • mikehughescq
    mikehughescq Member Posts: 7,548 Disability Gamechanger
    Bottom line here is that if you don’t want to be judged in any way at all then probably don’t go for PIP. If you claim disability benefits then you’re always going to be judged one way or another and most rather than some people have invisible impairments. How you are judged is entirely within your control in terms of the evidence you present on and with your claim pack and how well prepared you are for any subsequent assessment. You can over interpret every look or comment, and some peoples health will mean they have little control over that, but it still doesn’t stop you ensuring that all your other ducks are in a line so to speak.
  • Yadnad
    Yadnad Posts: 2,856 Member
    edited December 2018
    I think the point Mike is that there is being judged and being judged!
    I would be a lovely experience if in the first instance, the application forms were made simpler and that the inexperienced benefit claimants could understand exactly how to fill them in. As you have said before, claimants should ignore the DWP notes and instructions. What then should they look at if not the instructions provided that they are clear and accurate.

    Then comes the face to face assessment. Again it should be an experience much the same as going to see your GP or consultant. The claimant should be confident that the assessor would make the right call first time I'm not saying that they should agree with everything that a claimant says, but where there are differences the alternative view put forward should be fully justified evidentially so that the claimant can understand the report.

    Then comes the decision maker making the decision. Again this should be based on all of the evidence. The decision should be fully justified so that the claimant can see how the decision was made.

    All in all get these points right then the appeal rate would take a nose dive and claimants would be happier as they could understand more. 

     
  • judy21
    judy21 Member Posts: 18 Connected
    My fave to face was awful I had a witness with me who was shocked at the report that came back important bits were missed bits were added that were untrue very disappointing and they should be able to judge some by your medical reports and details as the medical team can’t lie then maybe they wouldn’t have a huge back logo get some cases they may have to go out but when there are medical reports 
  • April2018mom
    April2018mom Posts: 2,869 Member
    I had a face to face assessment a couple of years ago. My partner came with me and he also read the report that came in the mail afterwards. We were definitely not impressed by the inaccuracies in the report.
    So I ended up having a tribunal meeting to contest the decision. If there are any inaccuracies in the report do ask for a mandatory reconsideration immediately. 
    These people and assessments will be the death of me. I dream of the day we can conduct each assessment over Skype. 
  • judy21
    judy21 Member Posts: 18 Connected
    That’s what stage mine is at at the moment the mandatory reconsideration I have provided doctors letters photos surgeon report you anme it  someone I know had theirs done over the phone my lady might just aswell sat on my garden and wrote what ever she wanted eithozut even seeing me and it turns out although she told me she wasn’t medically trained she was a paramedic so she knows all I have gone through which kind of makes it worse
  • Yadnad
    Yadnad Posts: 2,856 Member
    edited December 2018
  • Yadnad
    Yadnad Posts: 2,856 Member
    edited December 2018
    Yadnad said:
    judy21 said:
    she was a paramedic so she knows all I have gone through which kind of makes it worse
    I wouldn't be too forgiving towards a paramedic or indeed any 'medically trained' assessor. I'm not saying that they don't do a good job in their own environment but putting them in something totally different is always going to be cause for issues.

    For the life of me I don't really understand why they have this system.

    I have had assessments for another disability based benefit, the latest being in 2011. It was carried out by a doctor appointed by the DWP, and there was no computer in sight. It was a written report based entirely on what I said and the evidence submitted. The reason for that claim was entirely down to Mental Health issues for which I have a lifetime award representing the loss of 40% of brain function

    There had been no issues with this and every report received was factually correct - the doctor had added their own opinion to it!  All three PIP assessors reported that I did not have any mental health issues. And to top it off, the DWP decision maker agreed!


    The DWP can't even agree amongst themselves. 

  • judy21
    judy21 Member Posts: 18 Connected
    I’ve not long had breast cancer so it’s not something I can make up I have surgeons report oncologist and since chemo having so many on going problems again all medical
    reporys to show this 

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