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befuddled Member Posts: 14 Listener
New forum member here.

I had my tribunal for an ESA claim on wednesday. The judge and doctor present were very sympathetic and listened to all I had to say.
The DWP didn't send their rep to sit in and listen.
Due to a legal complication and in the words of the judge 'this being a very unusual case' he has adjourned the case and wants the DWP to give evidence pertaining to a couple of points that were bought up.

I was placed in the work related activity group but I didnt appeal against that for over 12 months (obviously the appeal was still accepted) DWP is being asked to explain what work related activity I was given since being placed in WRAG and if I wasnt required to do any, why I wasnt expected to undertake any activity.
The DWP must clarify which activity I would not have been expected to undertake.
I attended a single interview for JSA and the respondant must show details of all activity undertaken and asked of me in respect of the JSA claim. The JSA claim was turned down on the same day as the interview if i remember rightly as it was income based and partner works for 21 hours a week.
Does this sound good from my point of view? The DWP has 21 days to respond!

Thanks in advance.


  • tru88le
    tru88le Posts: 215 Member
    Im glad your question was less comllex than the lead up...
    Personally i would say yes it sounds good.
    But theres some info missing for me to be more certain, like
    Tbe comolication, why so unusual.

    Seems a bit weird the judge doing that.
  • befuddled
    befuddled Member Posts: 14 Listener

    The complication being that DWP had absolutley no reason to accept my late appeal because it was 13 months late, and they could have shut it down there and then by saying sorry you have exceeded the appeal time limit.

    Yet went ahead and processed it anyway. The judge said that it made no sense to him.

  • mikehughescq
    mikehughescq Member Posts: 7,530 Disability Gamechanger
    Okay, so what’s being said is this. 

    In order to admit a late appeal all that has to be shown nowadays is that the case has merit; that it’s in the interests of justice to proceed and that DWP don’t object to that.

    What the tribunal may be saying is that if DWP have raised no objections to lateness then by implication they think the case has merit. If they think the case has merit then why continue to argue it. Not least because they’ve put in no evidence one way or the other of your being able to cope with WRA in the WRAG.

    I don’t think you can read anything into an adjournment one way or another. There was arguably no need to adjourn. DWP in admitting the appeal are not cincedung the merit issue. Just that they don’t object to lateness. They’ve had the opportunity to put in a submission and then didn’t bother to turn up on the day. It’s arguable there wasn’t a need to give them a second bite.

    The stupidity of this is that unless they’ve reserved the case to the sane panel then your next hearing will be a completely different one and it’s open to them to take a wholly different approach. 

  • befuddled
    befuddled Member Posts: 14 Listener
    thanks for your reply @mikehughescq.

    Makes sense what you say about the lateness of my initial appeal, but DWP could have turned it down, this I find hard to understand. If i took a coat back late expecting a refund the shop has no need to refund me if I am outside of the period.

    The questions that are being asked of the DWP all relate to activities that I was asked to take part in while i was in the WRAG, (none, because I was never called in for a WRAG 'interview') and details of all activities that I was asked to take part in during my claim for JSA (again none because I wasn't liable for JSA as it is income based).

    Reading between the lines of it, seems to be that the Judge is asking if I was placed in WRAG why wasn't I given activities. And if I wasn't expected to do any activities why wasn't I left in the Support Group.

    Will I not have the same judge present in the second hearing?

    Will that mean going over all the evidence again?
  • mikehughescq
    mikehughescq Member Posts: 7,530 Disability Gamechanger
    DWP almost always decline to object to late appears nowadays.

    If your tribunal started and heard evidence then you can only have the same 3 or a different 3. It’s hard to get the same 3 together so most likely a different 3.
  • befuddled
    befuddled Member Posts: 14 Listener
    Dwp didn't send a rep, so it's only the judge and the doctor.

    Maybe they might be available.

  • mikehughescq
    mikehughescq Member Posts: 7,530 Disability Gamechanger
    Sorry, was travelling and typing. Yes, ESA tribunals are 2. There’s a possibility it might be the same 2 but given what they’ve done so far no real reason to desperately want it to be.
  • befuddled
    befuddled Member Posts: 14 Listener
    @mikehughescq again thanks for your reply.

    I suppose I am looking for the slightest glimmer of hope that this is going to go my way.

    Just that the Judge and Doctor last week were sympathetic and I felt that they were listening and taking on board what I was presenting.
  • PTSDdisabled
    PTSDdisabled Posts: 41 Member
    DWP almost always decline to object to late appears nowadays.

    If your tribunal started and heard evidence then you can only have the same 3 or a different 3. It’s hard to get the same 3 together so most likely a different 3.
    Didn't you say in another thread, that once 13 months had gone past you could not appeal?
  • befuddled
    befuddled Member Posts: 14 Listener

    I was led to believe that you have to ask for the mandatory reconsideration within 28 days. I put mine in 13 months late and the DWP still accepted it. The Judge didnt understand why they hadnt just said that it was too late and that would have been that.
  • mikehughescq
    mikehughescq Member Posts: 7,530 Disability Gamechanger
    With appeals there’s an absolute time limit of 13 months. However, that can be gotten round by getting a fresh MR decision. 

    MR doesn’t exist in law. There’s no reference to it in the legislation at all. What that leaves is what’s always been there. Any grounds reviews (the MR to be done inside a month) and the any grounds review which can be done at any time provided there are grounds for review like ignorance of a material fact etc. but has this weird 13 month upper limit. The latter applies where you try to do an any grounds review late but don’t have grounds. If you have grounds then it’s just an any grounds review with no time limit. 

    So, if you have followed all that - and anyone could be forgiven for not doing so - it’s easy enough to see that a late MR with decent grounds will almost always trigger a fresh decision which in turn attracts a new right of appeal.

    Easy peasy innit :)
  • PTSDdisabled
    PTSDdisabled Posts: 41 Member

    I am hoping to get some advice, and amazingly enough assistance with my case from The Mary Ward Centre, Central London.

    There are drop drop in sessions from 2 to 4pm, On Tuesdays. I was informed that people start arriving from 12. My difficulty with waiting to be seen is because I suffer from the following:

    Mental Health

    Complex PTSD;

    Significant Post Traumatic Stress

    symptomatology; flashbacks, hypervigelence (being constantly on alert), increased irritability, memory and concentration problems accompanied by some depressive symptoms; anhedonia, social withdrawal, low mood and anxiety.

    - Borderline Personality Disorder;
    - Depressive Disorder;
    - General Anxiety Disorder;
    - Emotionally Unstable Personality Disorder;
    - Adjustment Disorder. With mixed anxiety and depressed mood;


    - I have a crumbling C6 vertebrae, which causes neuropathic pain, and makes arm almost useless.
    - Ruptured Right Achilles Tendon
    - Pain in Right Knee;
    - Pain in Right Hip;
    - Pain in left hip
    - Numbness in toes and sometimes legs
    - Numbness or tingling in right arm, hand and fingers;
    - Sacroiliac pain in left buttock occasionally in right buttock. 
    - Severe lower back pain
    - Pain in between shoulders
    - Restricted movement in neck, and pain
    - IBS.

    I have significant problems with sleeping, getting to sleep and remaining asleep, leading to sleep deprivation and exhaustion.

    I have up to date medical and psychological reports and have supplied these to the assessor along with photographs of the injury to my back.

    Do you think I could ask for a specific appointment time, owing to the above, as a “Request for Reasonable Adjustments”? 

    The Mary Ward Centre does offer appointments, but you have to attend the “gateway “, session on Tuesdays, to be able to get an appointment.

  • mikehughescq
    mikehughescq Member Posts: 7,530 Disability Gamechanger
    Good question. There’s no reason at all to not make the request. The practicalities may prevent it but I can’t really comment further.


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