PIP, DLA and AA
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PIP claim disallowed.

Eadiesmummy1Eadiesmummy1 Member Posts: 90 Courageous
To say the report was a complete fiction. Assessor states i took off my coat, which i left on through the whole interview..
Anyhow i scored 1 point for medication needs. 

I am fuming right now. What do i do next? 

Replies

  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    Hi,

    MR is the next step if you've had the decision letter. You need to request it in writing, stating what you disagree with and where you think you should have scored those points. Adding 2-3 examples of what happened the last time you did that activity.
    Proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice I have given to members here on the community.
  • Eadiesmummy1Eadiesmummy1 Member Posts: 90 Courageous
    Thanks poppy. Im gutted but hoping the mr might work xx 
  • lizzieloz30lizzieloz30 Member Posts: 57 Courageous
    Hi @Eadiesmummy1 so sorry to hear that. Do what @poppy123456 said take it to MR. 
  • YadnadYadnad Posts: 2,856 Member
    Thanks poppy. Im gutted but hoping the mr might work xx 
    Less than 17% 'win' a MR.
    Be prepared to go to appeal - if you feel that your health could stand the stress.
  • Eadiesmummy1Eadiesmummy1 Member Posts: 90 Courageous
    I will take it all the way. Since my application i've been diagnosed with a new condition plus hospitalised 4 times been upped on my medication 6 times and changed medication twice..I have no blink reflex in left eye or left leg. My neuralgia has worsened to the point i feel suicidal. I will even take to the tribunal stage if necessary. When i rang he said they made a decision on Thursday but didnt recieve NhS report until friday. xxxx 
  • Tilly1Tilly1 Member Posts: 25 Connected
    To say the report was a complete fiction. Assessor states i took off my coat, which i left on through the whole interview..
    Anyhow i scored 1 point for medication needs. 

    I am fuming right now. What do i do next? 
    I can understand why you are angry my assesser wrote on my report  i walked with a stick which i don't!
  • CockneyRebelCockneyRebel Member Posts: 5,257 Disability Gamechanger
    I will take it all the way. Since my application i've been diagnosed with a new condition plus hospitalised 4 times been upped on my medication 6 times and changed medication twice..I have no blink reflex in left eye or left leg. My neuralgia has worsened to the point i feel suicidal. I will even take to the tribunal stage if necessary. When i rang he said they made a decision on Thursday but didnt recieve NhS report until friday. xxxx 
    They cannot take any new condition into account for this claim. Any change in your condition must have been in place for 3 months and likely to continue for a further 9
    Be all you can be, make  every day count. Namaste
  • Eadiesmummy1Eadiesmummy1 Member Posts: 90 Courageous
    it is lifelong illness, although it was only diagnosed in october xx 
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    A diagnosis makes no difference to a PIP claim. It's how those conditions affect your ability to carry out daily activities against the PIP descriptors.
    Proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice I have given to members here on the community.
  • katieskaties Member Posts: 4 Listener
    I can see why you are angry I've just been turned down after review and the report was nothing like the interview a whole pack of lies I'm going to tribunal any ideas on what I need to put in the box marked reason for appeal
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    @katies Have you requested the MR? You can't request the Tribunal without first asking for this because you need to MR decision letter.
    Proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice I have given to members here on the community.
  • Pippa_AlumniPippa_Alumni Scope alumni Posts: 5,851 Disability Gamechanger
    Welcome to the community, @katies! Scope's page on appealing DWP decisions may help you to get started.


  • katieskaties Member Posts: 4 Listener
    Thanks for your replies I have done the MR and have the letter I am now appealing to the Tribunal and I am having difficulty in knowing how 
    much information I should put in the reason for appeal any ideas what I need to include any help would be appreciated thanks
  • CockneyRebelCockneyRebel Member Posts: 5,257 Disability Gamechanger

    Appeals do not have to be scary

    Many people, having gone through the assessment process, then the Mandatory Reconsideration are still let down by the system.
    In order to get justice and the award they deserve, the final stage is to appeal to a tribunal.

    Usually, a tribunal is a panel made up of a judge, a doctor and a disability specialist. This is an independant panel, given the task of looking at all the evidence from both parties, and come to an unbiased decision. In many cases, the panel will want to clarify with the claimant some of the evidence, or give the claimant the chance to explain.

    If you are able to attend the hearing this is more easily achieved, however to some, the accumulated stress makes this impossible and a hearing can be held based just on the paper evidence with out the need to attend. It is also possible now to request a telephone or skype hearing

    In all cases, the judge will notify you before the hearing if he believes that the current award is unsafe, which means that you may lose points and your current award. If this happens you do have the option to withdraw your appeal and keep the award you have.

    This all sounds so scary that many people don't progress to this stage and settle for a lesser award than they deserve. Having already sent in all your possible evidence, what else can you do to persuade the "court" that you deserve a higher award ?

    The simple answer is nothing. You have done everything you can.

    Or have you ?

    Often, the problem is not your evidence, which proves beyond doubt that your condition is real and affects the way you complete the daily tasks in line with the decriptors.

    The problem is with how your evidence is presented.

    Think about it. If you were a DM or a tribunal panel, would you want to read through the equivalent of War and Peace in medical evidence ? Would you even be able to stay awake to do so ?

    Presentation to an appeal panel is made easy for you. You have already done all the work of collecting and submitting your evidence and GP letters where possible. The DWP has sent you back a copy of everything, "the bundle", all you need to do is present your case in an idiot proof form.

    Make it easy for the panel to understand why you deserve the award.

    We have all had the HCP report that at best can be described as a work of fiction. Attacking the HCP will not score you any points
    The panel don't care ! The job of the panel is to make a judgement on your functionality and your job is to present your reasons in a straight forward manner.
    Complaints about assessors are a separate matter and have no place in appeal submissions.

    My "how to template", a formula put together over a year and eight successful PIP claims, may be of use if you want to give it a try. It is not magic, it is not a guarantee of success. You may think it is a load of ****, feel free to disgard it or make comments.
    If it makes sense to you and helps you to appeal in a less stressful way, feel free to use it.

    Template for appeal submission

    MY best advice is, make it simple and idiot proof.
    You do not need to try and find even more paperwork, you have already sent in all your relevant evidence

    Write a brief history of your claim, condition and how it affects your daily life.

    Example:

    I am 61 years old and have had rheumatoid arthritis, multiple joint osteoarthritis and lupus for most of my life. The condition is permanent and deteriorating despite medication to slow the process. The painkillers I take have an effect after a few hours but before they kick in, I have difficulty washing and dressing and the pain make it very hard to get around.

    You may agree with some of the points awarded, in which case say so and reference these to the bundle so the panel can easily find the information if they want.

    Example;

    Undisputed descriptors

    Managing toilet needs 2 points (page 64 of the bundle)
    Communicating verbally 0 points ( page 66 of the bundle )
    etc.

    Next move on to the descriptors that you are disputing. Again reference each point to the bundle.
    State what you were awarded. What you believe you should have been awarded and why.

    Example:

    Disputed activity
    Preparing and cooking food
    I was awarded 0 points for preparing and cooking food ( page 60 of the bundle )
    I believe that I should have been awarded 4 points for this activity
    I need help to cook food, I can prepare vegetables whilst sitting but I cannot reliably, safely and for the majority of time, lift hot pans due to limited dexterity, poor grip and pain in my wrists and hands ( ref GP1, GP3 of the bundle. GP's letter ) There is a clear danger that I will drop things and scald myself and therefore need my wife to do this when necessary.
    The assessment took place at 09:00 when I was fully rested and with the benefit of full pain medication. The HCP stated that I had a normal power and pinch grip at the time ( pages 59 & 60 of the bundle ). However ,I do not believe that the assessor took into consideration the effect of fatigue and the diminishing effect of my pain relief during a typical day, especially at meal times later in the day.

    Do this for each descriptor that you dispute.

    Finally write a brief summary of the above.


    In conclusion, due to the snapshot nature of the assessment, I believe that the assessor did not take into consideration how my conditions affect me during a typical day or how the effects of fatigue and diminishing pain relief impact on my capability to carry out the activities as the day wears on.
    I believe that I should have been awarded XX points for the care component and as agreed 12 points for moving around.
    My conditions are permanent and deteriorating yearly ( GP 1 ) with no chance of remmission. As my condition varies from day to day, I request that the hearing takes place on the paper evidence as I am unable to ensure my attendance.

    Your faithfully.

    These are true examples from a submission used which resulted in a higher award being given.

    I hope this helps some of you tro realise that tribunals don't have to be scary or hard to do.

    CR
    Be all you can be, make  every day count. Namaste
  • Pippa_AlumniPippa_Alumni Scope alumni Posts: 5,851 Disability Gamechanger
    Hi @katies, there's also some good information about completing the tribunal form and what to include in this on the Citizens Advice website:

    The most important part of the form is Section 5: Grounds for appeal. In this box you need to give the specific reasons why you disagree with the decision.

    Use your decision letter, statement of reasons and medical assessment report to note each of the statements you disagree with and why. Give facts, examples and medical evidence (if you have any) to support what you’re saying.

    You might have done this already for your mandatory reconsideration letter - if so, you can use the same examples and pieces of evidence again.

    You should also look at the points system the DWP uses (called descriptors) to assess PIP claims to see where you might get more points. It's important to use the right evidence. You can look at our guide to how the DWP makes a decision to help you.

    You can include all this information on a separate sheet if you’d prefer, just write ‘See enclosed information’ in the box and attach any papers securely to the form.

    Tribunals can look at your whole award again. So you should consider whether you risk losing your current award - for example, if you've got evidence to support a daily living component but might lose your mobility award because you can now move better. If you're not sure, you should get advice from your nearest Citizens Advice.
  • katieskaties Member Posts: 4 Listener
    CockneyRebel and Pippa thank you so much for all your help I really appreciate what you've done for me 
  • Eadiesmummy1Eadiesmummy1 Member Posts: 90 Courageous
    Its MS so affects me a lot compared to how i was at the assessment. I'm writing MR tomorrow, getting as much medical information as i can mon. xx 
  • SpibesSpibes Member Posts: 58 Courageous
    I'm sorry this happened, I appreciate the way you helped me prep for my pip assessment still awaiting the result of mine. I hope the MR goes in your favour. 
  • Eadiesmummy1Eadiesmummy1 Member Posts: 90 Courageous
    @Spibes how are you stranger? me too. im fighting it all the way! hope your decision is a good one xxx 
  • SpibesSpibes Member Posts: 58 Courageous
    I'm doing okay few panic attacks this past week and haven't been able to go online for a while, my assessment was yesterday. 

    I went to the assessment centre in Wigan, my mum came with me and her boyfriend gave us a lift I mads sure the nurse knew that I was taken there by car not my public transport and my mum takes me everywhere. 

    I explained when I asked I needed prompting to take medication, to eat and to wash on bad days and can only cook through a microwave meal. 

    I also explained my mum and gran manage most of my bills and budgeting and my housing officer manages my housing benefit and council tax side. 

    I did make a slight blunder she was reading my form and asked me about not understanding signs and said I wrote it there I didn't understand at first but clarified it was about road signs. 

    It lasted about a hour, she asked a lot of questions, she wasn't nice but wasn't nasty more so just cold and robotic. 

    Fingers crossed for you x
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 6,573 Disability Gamechanger
    Latest MR stat is that we’re up to a 19% success rate.
  • SpibesSpibes Member Posts: 58 Courageous
    That's a improvement, hopefully the pressure on the Government due to having no majority sees real change in the system. The video recording of assessments being trialled is positive too but hopefully it rolls out nationally. 
  • YadnadYadnad Posts: 2,856 Member
    Spibes said:
    That's a improvement, hopefully the pressure on the Government due to having no majority sees real change in the system. The video recording of assessments being trialled is positive too but hopefully it rolls out nationally. 
    Yes give people the option for such a recording - remember that not everyone would be happy being filmed. If I was still in the 'system' I would opt out of it being recorded - people including myself would not be at ease.

  • SpibesSpibes Member Posts: 58 Courageous
    That makes logical sense yes I could get behind that. 
  • MariLondon50MariLondon50 Member Posts: 14 Listener
    Hello there
    I also had my pip assessment on 25th of September on 1th of October a letter arrived 6 points for daily living 4 for mobility I logged a mandatory reconsideration on 8th of October and waiting until now for answers I called several times in the mean time but the answer is they are looking at my case good luck to everyone 
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 6,573 Disability Gamechanger
    Recordings really hide broader issues.

    1 - not everyone will want or cope with a recording.
    2 - the extra cost of recording will need to be clawed back so it will trigger a tightening of the PIP criteria.
    3 - the recording is meaningless until transcribed. No DM is going to watch your 45 minute appointment in full. That’s expensive and slow so there will be further delays in decision making in order to accommodate transcription. 
    4 - okay so recording improves the standard of recording. A lot of people are going to move from “but I didn’t say that” to “okay I did say that but what I meant was”. Not helpful albeit that it will definitely silence some of the “liars” narrative. 
    5 - okay so you now have a HCP report where what you said is accurately reported. The HCP nevertheless continues to form their own view and disagrees with your self assessment. Back to MRs but this time without the focus on “the HCP lied” as the default argument.

    Nowhere near the solution people think it will be.
  • cristobalcristobal Member Posts: 968 Disability Gamechanger
    Mike.....I don't disagree with you in relation to the length of time it takes to transcribe etc. However I'm certain that a recording helped my claim.

    What I found surprising is that the assessor still lied even when I recorded it! 
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 6,573 Disability Gamechanger
    Depends on what you mean by lie. Do you mean lie or do you mean drew an inference you believe to be unreasonable?
  • cristobalcristobal Member Posts: 968 Disability Gamechanger
    I mean lies, something that is untrue and i can prove it as such....there are lots of 'unreasonable assumptions as well though"

    Examples from the recording:-

    "Can you walk to the shop and back" A "no" recorded as "yes"
    "You said that you get tired and have to nap. How often is that?" A "Most days" recorded as 2-3 days per week
    "pays for his petrol at the kiosk" - never said
    "reads books on the internet" - never said
    "do you have a downstairs toilet?" A"No" recorded as "Yes"
    "How often does your wife help you with medication?" A" I can't remember but quite a lot" recorded as "One day a month"

    There a several more, without getting into the 'misunderstandings.And the leading questions. And assumptions. And the refusal to discuss additional information that I gave to the assessor. And poor interview technique.

    The really sad thing is that I went into the assessment open-minded and I'm still struggling to believe what happened. (you'll see from my previous post that they're not busting a gut to put it right either!!)
  • cristobalcristobal Member Posts: 968 Disability Gamechanger
    I'm not sure whether this is a lie, or just mad but when i went to the toilet the assessor timed me and concluded that I can walk at 60metres/sec!!
  • CockneyRebelCockneyRebel Member Posts: 5,257 Disability Gamechanger
    Wow. That puts Usain Bolt out of business
    Be all you can be, make  every day count. Namaste
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 6,573 Disability Gamechanger
    Have just read your other post. Clearly the recording did help. You are presumably aware it was illegal though? Had you had to proceed to appeal it would not necessarily have been admitted as evidence. One of the many interesting aspects of video recording as planned is that fixing such issues is likely to take far longer because of the transcription issue.
  • cristobalcristobal Member Posts: 968 Disability Gamechanger
    Mike...thanks for alerting me to this. Will it be illegal? It wasn't done covertly, I notified them beforehand, and then checked with the assessor prior to the start of the assessment.The assessor's consent is actually on the recording. That's what I find amazing - that the assessment went the way it did even when they knew that I was recording it.It seems to me that they're extremely confident that they can stitch people up without suffering any consequences. And they're right.

    As I said apart from the lies there are lots of other 'errors' that I think are probably lies but could, if you were being generous, be considered honest mistakes.

    A tactic seems to be to take answers out of context which I think you might be alluding to when you talk about 'drawing an unreasonable inference'. The report said that I practice (a particular sport) but failed to mention that I went on to say that it was so long ago that I couldn't remember when I last went.It recorded that I did the washing up (true) but didn't mention that I cannot load the washing machine (which was the next thing I was asked) 

    I was trying to add a note of humour when I mentioned the 60m/sec walking but this too is essentially a lie. The assessor wasn't timing me when I got up, and cannot actually see the distance that it is claimed I walked. At best it's a very bad estimate, and very bad proofreading as it so obviously wrong

    I would estimate that there are about a dozen lies and about 20-30 'inaccuracies'

    Curiously as far as I can see there isn't a single occasion when one of these mistakes/errors etc would add weight to my claim.
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 6,573 Disability Gamechanger
    Two simultaneous copies of the recording?
  • cristobalcristobal Member Posts: 968 Disability Gamechanger
  • cristobalcristobal Member Posts: 968 Disability Gamechanger
    Mike ..when I listened to the recording I was actually very surprised at how I came across. I was nervous obviously but at practically every question I was hesitant, lots of "err" & "I can't remember", thinking for an absolute age & constantly going back to topics that had already been covered.

    Credit where credit's due - when the recording was reviewed by a "senior clinical assessor" they picked up on all of this which is why they suggested changing the descriptors in relation to "cognitive" type behaviours.
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 6,573 Disability Gamechanger
    Good for you. 

    Totally off topic but I do think a significant minority of claimants will discover that recording goes against them either because they present very badly; without credibility or didn’t say what they thought they said. 

    Comes down to a point I make repeatedly on here. By and large challenging a HCP report is pretty easy with or without a recording but in most cases it won’t get you PIP. That will depend on the credibility of your own evidence.
  • sarmitchsarmitch Member Posts: 5 Listener
    I just received my decision and I have been awarded 0 points the report and reasons why dont match my assessment or even my illness I have sle,aps ,tn,on, degenerative disc diease I have no hearing in left ear from tumor and i have toxicity from lupus drugs so I am loosing my eye sight I take a cocktail of pain killers daily but in the report they state I didn't look like I was in pain and I walk at a normal pace and I don't have any pain medication any medical I receive is for monitoring purpose only is it possible they have mixed up assessments there was so many inconsistency for not awarding any points has any body experienced this ? 
  • cristobalcristobal Member Posts: 968 Disability Gamechanger
    Mike - you're totally correct.

    I thought long and hard before I recorded my assessment, mainly because I didn't want to come across as a 'barrack room lawyer' who had made their mind up that they didn't trust the assessor before they've even met them. 
  • Eadiesmummy1Eadiesmummy1 Member Posts: 90 Courageous
    sarmitch said:
    I just received my decision and I have been awarded 0 points the report and reasons why dont match my assessment or even my illness I have sle,aps ,tn,on, degenerative disc diease I have no hearing in left ear from tumor and i have toxicity from lupus drugs so I am loosing my eye sight I take a cocktail of pain killers daily but in the report they state I didn't look like I was in pain and I walk at a normal pace and I don't have any pain medication any medical I receive is for monitoring purpose only is it possible they have mixed up assessments there was so many inconsistency for not awarding any points has any body experienced this ? 
    i have tn too. are you nit on any anticonvulsants? my report is an absolute joke x sorry i havent replied guys. rough few days x
  • sarmitchsarmitch Member Posts: 5 Listener
    I'm on 700mg carbamazepine for tn
    100mg amitriptyline for o,n and a load others for my lupus I'm going to ask for m,r the report can't be mine I haven't walked at a normal pace for over 8 years as I have musle degenerative and swollen joints 
  • Eadiesmummy1Eadiesmummy1 Member Posts: 90 Courageous
    definitely ask for MR. ive asked for one. i take 300mg carbamazipene and 300mg pregabalin, they arent clued up on medications at all xx 
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 6,573 Disability Gamechanger
    By and large they are as clued up as the level of detail you gave them in the claim pack. If you just detailed your meds, levels and why but didn’t explain side effects; problems taking them etc. then, no, they won’t be clued up.
  • sarmitchsarmitch Member Posts: 5 Listener
    I don't think they know what taking the amount of meds we do effects our lives it's dreadful ,the pain from TN is undescribable never mind all the other things going I will def be calling tomorrow to find out what the report has said because to say I'm not on any pain medication is just 1 thing that isn't the case hope you sort things out I'll keep you posted xx
  • Eadiesmummy1Eadiesmummy1 Member Posts: 90 Courageous
    By and large they are as clued up as the level of detail you gave them in the claim pack. If you just detailed your meds, levels and why but didn’t explain side effects; problems taking them etc. then, no, they won’t be clued up.
    I hand wote an extra sheet of paper giving exact details of each medication, frequency, dosage, what it is for, what side affects i have etc. They should be experts! xx
  • Eadiesmummy1Eadiesmummy1 Member Posts: 90 Courageous
    sarmitch said:
    I don't think they know what taking the amount of meds we do effects our lives it's dreadful ,the pain from TN is undescribable never mind all the other things going I will def be calling tomorrow to find out what the report has said because to say I'm not on any pain medication is just 1 thing that isn't the case hope you sort things out I'll keep you posted xx
    i have sent you a private message xx
  • mattw84mattw84 Member Posts: 17 Connected
    edited December 2018
    I had my tribunal today. I have had agoraphobia and sciatica for the last 3 years my claim was made last December and although I had the symptoms I didn’t have the diagnosis till August this year after a mri scab showed two herniated discs in my lower spine which has pinched the nerves. 

    I scored 2 points and lost my mandatory reconsideration 

    had tbe tribunal today took my hospital diagnosis and they took one look and the doctor whispered to the judge asked me a few questions about the symptoms at the time of my assessment and in less than 5 mins overturned the Dwp and awarded me enhanced for both backdated from last December 
    the panel were amazing and the doctor on the panel was fantastic 

    I think the Dwp should use doctors to do the assessments rather than whoever they can find in the healthcare industry.

    it might be a long wait but I recommend you take it to the end and don’t let the long wait and fight put you off.

    good luck
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 6,573 Disability Gamechanger
    They used doctors between the 1970s and 2013. It was one the main things people wanted changing. Be careful what you wish for.
  • WaylayWaylay Member Posts: 949 Pioneering
    Why did people want it changed, @mikehughescq ? Just out of interest.
  • mattw84mattw84 Member Posts: 17 Connected
    Probably because doctors can see through some people trying to get benefits with no real issues. I have a genuine illness as do millions of others and I have no issues sitting in front of a doctor who understands health conditions and medications 

    the people that are scared of that obviously have something to hide!
  • YadnadYadnad Posts: 2,856 Member
    mattw84 said:
    Probably because doctors can see through some people trying to get benefits with no real issues. I have a genuine illness as do millions of others and I have no issues sitting in front of a doctor who understands health conditions and medications 

    the people that are scared of that obviously have something to hide!
    Quite possibly true.

    However even with doctors not all have experience and knowledge of the impact on a claimant's life for every illness and disability known to man.

    The whole purpose of PIP, unlike DLA that had doctors, is that you are being measured against fixed criteria for the impact of whatever you say is wrong with you. With PIP no one is really that interested in how ill you are and what medication you are on.
  • mattw84mattw84 Member Posts: 17 Connected
    See I agree and disagree 

    i get everyones point and every illness effects everyone differently I only have respect for doctors as if it was not for the doctor on my panel I may not have won so easily 

    the health care professional said to the Dwp I don’t suffer with BI-polar so making budgeting decisions should be no problem 

    the doctor  on the panel was disgusted with this statement and said there is a massive amount of illness that would affect budgeting (such as if someone has anxiety they may find making phone calls or visiting a bank hard etc) and yet the Dwp In there report to the tribunal said I have no reason to argue and that as I don’t have bi polar I have no grounds to disagree 

    if I didn’t have a doctor on the panel that understood mental illness and the way illness affects a person on a daily basis I would of possibly lost my case on the word of a district nurse who would only have basis medical qualifications. 

    Thats my reasons but everyone will will have their own view and that’s fine. 
  • TardisTardis Member Posts: 214 Pioneering
    Actually, I would have thought people like paramedics, OTs, mental heath nurses and the like would have a better insight in to how disability might affect people in their ability to carry out daily activities.  Doctors are more about diagnosis and treatment.  And the same diagnosed condition will affect people differently.  Even if they are on the same medication regime.
  • YadnadYadnad Posts: 2,856 Member
    Tardis said:
    Actually, I would have thought people like paramedics, OTs, mental heath nurses and the like would have a better insight in to how disability might affect people in their ability to carry out daily activities.  Doctors are more about diagnosis and treatment.  And the same diagnosed condition will affect people differently.  Even if they are on the same medication regime.
    'might' affect. No one can say for certain that it does or would  other than the claimant.
  • WaylayWaylay Member Posts: 949 Pioneering
    @Tardis See, my problems involve complex mental health problems and chronic pain after failed back surgery. It was quite obvious that the paramedic who assessed me had no understanding of either. He didn't have a clue what borderline PD is, didn't believe that someone could get so depressed that they wouldn't bother to eat, and said that since I didn't appear sad I wasn't depressed. Severe depression often goes beyond sadness to a bleak void of emotions, but he expected me to be crying. He also said that I didn't display any signs of pain. This is ridiculous, as I couldn't help it, but he expected me to be reacting like someone with acute pain. When it's chronic, you quickly learn not to bother with most of the usual pain behaviours. They don't help and they use up valuable energy. My assessment by a physio (who knew a lot about mental health!) was much more accurate. She knew what to look for in someone with chronic pain.
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    They don't need to have specific knowledge in any condition. All conditions affect people in many different ways and it's the claimants responsibility to explain how your conditions affect your ability to carry out the PIP descriptors.
    Proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice I have given to members here on the community.
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 6,573 Disability Gamechanger
    Yadnad said:
    Tardis said:
    Actually, I would have thought people like paramedics, OTs, mental heath nurses and the like would have a better insight in to how disability might affect people in their ability to carry out daily activities.  Doctors are more about diagnosis and treatment.  And the same diagnosed condition will affect people differently.  Even if they are on the same medication regime.
    'might' affect. No one can say for certain that it does or would  other than the claimant.
    Make your mind up. Elsewhere on here you repeatedly argue you can’t understand why a claimants evidence would be accepted. Waylay said:
    Why did people want it changed, @mikehughescq ? Just out of interest.
    The impetus for PIP was largely driven by a naive desire to save 20% of the welfare budget to move that money to UC. A number of other inconsistencies were identified as justification but all have been discredited despite continuing to be repeated by ministers. Doctors reports for DLA/AA did not contain such blatant inaccuracies as private companies do for PIP but nor were they any more accurate on walking distances or care needs and their focus was often on assumptions rather than knowledge. Their assumptions on functional capability were generally dreadful and absolutely reinforce my repeated assertion that medical evidence from a GP or consultant is of little use for PIP other than in MH/LD cases where people lack insight. 
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