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I appealed under error of law and won - now complaining about ATOS and the DWP

jenn2008jenn2008 Member Posts: 35 Courageous
edited December 2018 in PIP, DLA and AA
Hi, i was awarded enhanced PIP and standard Mobility in 2013 in which the Atos report had advised the Dwp that my condition was not curable. In 2016 the Dwp told me I had to attend a review assessesment in which an Atos nurse lied, made false statements and contricted my previous assessment my PIP was refused. I appealed to a tribunal which was adjourned to request information from my My GP. their statement of reasons said  my previous assement was not relavent to my condition now despite my condition not being curable. In their statement of reasons they did not mention the medical files they apparently requested. ( my GP said she was not aware of this request) my appeal was refused. I appealed under error of law and in 2018 I have only just won my appeal (almost 3 years) I was awarded enhance PiP and standard mobility for an ongoing period. I have ongoing complaints against Atos and the Dwp for maladministration. My local MP has been great helping me and is currently raising the issue in the House of Commons with regards to a broken system and time scales on vulnerable people. 

Replies

  • thespicemanthespiceman Member Posts: 6,408 Disability Gamechanger
    Hello @jenn2008 Pleased to meet you welcome. Thank you for joining and sharing.

    Congratulations on winning your appeal. I know there are many members who can identify what you are going through, my self included.

    Understand and have seen many members contact their local MP's . In the similar situation to yourself.

    I do know you are not alone. You come to the right place for information, advice and support.

    We are a friendly, supportive community. Care and share.

    Please ask if we can advise on anything. Some one will know.

    Please keep in touch and wish you all the success in your complaints with Atos and DWP. Please let the community know how you are progressing with that.

    I would be interested.

    Please take care

    @thespiceman
    Community Champion
    SCOPE Volunteer Award Engaging Communities 2019
    Mental Health advice, guidance and information to all members
    Nutrition, Diet, Wellbeing, Addiction.
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  • jenn2008jenn2008 Member Posts: 35 Courageous
    Hi @thespiceman
    thank you for the welcome and thank you for congratulating me on my appeal it has been a very long process. sorry to hear you are also going through similar as I’m sure so many are unfortunately, I joined so that I could share my experiences so that it may hopefully help other members i will keep updated with requards to my ongoing complaints too. Thank you 
  • thespicemanthespiceman Member Posts: 6,408 Disability Gamechanger
    Hello @jenn2008 Thank you for reply.  I am sure that you will get much support from the community.

    One of the problems I have is the continuous , repetitive assessments in over twenty years plus of benefits. Including appeals, tribunals and everything else.

     Something is seriously wrong in the system. I am a number like I have stated over every two years get reassessed then told fit then unfit , to qualify for benefits.

    I can not say how in 18 months one physical, mental wellbeing changes. In my mine a lot of your experiences.

    I do stress what helped and aided me was the foresight of a very good support worker. Whose intervention say having this was doing me no good mentally.

    Having to apply myself to go to the dole and all it entails sometimes for a year. Then after another reassessment be back claiming benefits on long term sick.

    Continuous stopping of benefits to qualify sometimes for new one. Waiting for a month for new benefit money, effecting council tax and housing benefit .

    First name terms on there . Strange every time went into say have to sign and inform Council of changes. . He the same guy would say be changing again in 18 months and he was right.

    So this year lost my car on the Motability scheme, used the financial incentive. They offered. Add to that the report was a load of errors even assessed me outside behind a door before even entered the room.

    Understand and do know many MP's are becoming attune to what the hell is going on. Especially people like myself.

    Thank you for reading this and the time.

    Take care

    @thespiceman
    Community Champion
    SCOPE Volunteer Award Engaging Communities 2019
    Mental Health advice, guidance and information to all members
    Nutrition, Diet, Wellbeing, Addiction.
    Recipes
  • jenn2008jenn2008 Member Posts: 35 Courageous
    Hi @thespiceman
    im sorry to hear about the troubles you have accrued unfortunately it is a broken system and by all means does not help vulnerable people physically and especially those with mental health. Continuous and repetitive  assessments are unfair, degrading and I don’t think they realise the impact this has on people especially when in most cases they are not even qualified, they lie and can be very misleading.  in my case it was suggested that I had made a full recovery of a condition that is not curable obviously did not do their research.
    Your right there is definitely something wrong with the system. I’m so glad you have a good support worker that will hopefully help you, I had originally gone to welfare rights who had advised me to give up as said I would not win and that if I still wanted to continue then I was on my own, I won my appeal. 
    I have heard of so many who have lost their homes due to money being stopped and like you said you have to constantly keep informing the council which can’t be helping your mental health. I’m sorry to hear you have lost your car under the mobility scheme it is just so unfair they really do nothing to help anyone just make peoples lives he’ll. They are always making mistakes errors ect I don’t think they know what there doing to be honest. I hope things do get better for you though 

  • thespicemanthespiceman Member Posts: 6,408 Disability Gamechanger
    Hello @jenn2008 Thank you first for reading my post. I am much appreciated and as a new member. You now know we are here to support you.

    Thank you for kind words and yes I have to admit effected me mentally.

    Plus one final point that whole benefits system makes you think your not alone.  With your issues and problems.

    One good reason being here. 

    Pleasure to meet you, take care.

    @thespiceman
    Community Champion
    SCOPE Volunteer Award Engaging Communities 2019
    Mental Health advice, guidance and information to all members
    Nutrition, Diet, Wellbeing, Addiction.
    Recipes
  • jenn2008jenn2008 Member Posts: 35 Courageous
    Hi @thespiceman
    thank you for your kinds words also, much appreciated. Keep me updated with how you get on also thank you take care 
  • ally88ally88 Member Posts: 6 Listener
    Don't quote me on this, but, I believe it is illegal for the acessors to use cctv footage as evidence of visual capabilities, before you have entered the acessment room.
    Do check, as you can use their visual evidence against them. ;-)
  • ally88ally88 Member Posts: 6 Listener
    Also, Facebook page, pip/ESA/uc/help are a very good social support group page. People who research and sharing research on rights etc, people affected by rejected benefits.
    I found some really useful secondary research from these members to use in support of my appeal.
    Have a look.
  • jenn2008jenn2008 Member Posts: 35 Courageous
    @alley88
    im not sure about cctv outside of the interview room but it’s worth checking. I know  their  not allowed to use cctv in interview rooms without your permission just as we are not allowed to record them 
  • ally88ally88 Member Posts: 6 Listener
    It's just not fair? We are not allowed to record and make audio evidence of their lies, yet they are secretly using cctv footage to determine a claimants capabilities?
  • jenn2008jenn2008 Member Posts: 35 Courageous
    @ally88
    your right it is not fair that we can’t record their lies especially when there are so many stories of them lying and yet its their word against ours all the time. As for them using footage Atos tend to rent properties to carry out their interviews and cctv cameras are for security of the building in which they rent which most business properties have warning signs saying cctv that’s how they get away with it but I agree they still should not be allowed to use this footage against us for evidence for PIP or Esa claims
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    Who said you can't record your assessment? It's not correct. You can record it but you need permission to do so and you need to use the correct recording devices, produce 2 identical copies using CD/tape recorders and hand one in at the end of the assessment.
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • thespicemanthespiceman Member Posts: 6,408 Disability Gamechanger
    Hello @ally88 Thank you for the comments  It was about me walking into a room.  From outside. As I stressed have problems walking which I do.

    Also there were many other false claims in the report he can swing his coat over a chair. So can have and do not problems using hands and arms.  Have not even said a word yet.

    Understand have and do have many instances of incidents similar. I have said before been doing these assessments long , long time.

    In those early days of benefits .I am talking here from early eighties to present day.

    In between working and when off claiming sickness benefits.

    Those early days horrific and the Doctors were allowed to touch you. The  most embarrassing, destressing moments in my life. No one should have that but they happened.

    I have them ingrained on my memory. Those early days those who did assessments were retired Doctors. Elderly men who had old fashioned demeanours and attitudes.

    Bought out of retirement to do these benefit assessments. Incapacity  Benefit and Income support.

    Making insensitive comments and other suggestions that had nothing to do with the process.

    Also may I add these assessments have become deep scars effecting me mentally long term.

    Simple words that hurt and harm.  He can open a door with his hands he is fit to work.  Throwing coins on to a table pick that up. Bellowing, shouting at you. Have and got hearing loss. Sitting behind a computer asking questions not moving.  Asking to repeat words and questions him the Doctor saying you can hear and making assumptions.

    So sick of all the hassle and those early days even recently have and find nothing has really changed . In stead got health professional the title they give themselves. One lady who assessed me a not a scooby about addiction. Quipped so I drink every night am I a alcoholic.  Words I can not explain the answer for fear of using it against me.

    Grabbing hold of your legs and arms pushing and pulling. Some much so. Caused pain.  Others placing their hands on your person in intimate places with out permission and making me feel uncomfortable to a extent pushing the Doctor away. He then shouting at me.

    Made a complaint on many of these early assessments.

    Last few and others making me feel small with sly undercurrents of intimation and words that were curt and blunt. Even insulting with remarks to my support.worker. Who attended that day. This young girl who was my support worker. Red faced , embarrassed told her before what was going to happen.

    Been shouted at for refusing to do simple exercises and the floorshow. Which is necessary.in their eyes the assessors not mine.

    Reason why I am very supportive offer my time and words of comfort to ease the situation.. Plus sympathy to those of the community. Who have similar experiences in anything like the times I just explained.

    Even now writing this is difficult but I have to say . Always get the anxiety sweats every time have to do these assessments.

    I apologise the long post I just wanted to add what has been happening to me.

    One final point in the early days of assessments and the friends who were like me. I used to go and be their support for the day. Ended up being a target for the Doctor, turned on me.  Instead of focusing on my friend. Then sometimes the two of us were being bullied about the Doctor as they were then and even now.

    I have stopped doing this and asked my friend to attend he is often a harden person. Even him gets emotional.

    So there we go.

    Pleasure to meet you.

    Take care

    @thespiceman





    Community Champion
    SCOPE Volunteer Award Engaging Communities 2019
    Mental Health advice, guidance and information to all members
    Nutrition, Diet, Wellbeing, Addiction.
    Recipes
  • jenn2008jenn2008 Member Posts: 35 Courageous
    @thespiceman
    absolutley disgusting how they can treat another a human being in this way. 
  • jenn2008jenn2008 Member Posts: 35 Courageous
    Hi @poppy123456
    i had heard about this recording thing but wasn’t sure if it was true or not. I wonder how many people have actually done this tho. I find unlikely that most people would have the money to buy this sort of equipment as most people can’t even get what their even entitled to these days 

  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    If you record an assessment without permission, you risk having your assessment stopped and your file being returned to DWP. Possibly a refusal of that benefit.

    Some do record their assessments but personally you're better of concentrating on filling the form is correctly, with as much information as possible about how your conditions affect you. Sending in evidence that supports how your conditions affect you.

    Lots of people claim PIP successfully first time, without any problems at all. What you mustn't forget is on an internet forum you'll mostly only ever hear that bad stories. Very few people post good news because if they've had a decision they're happen with they have no questions to ask, so we don't hear their story.
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • jenn2008jenn2008 Member Posts: 35 Courageous
    @poppy123456
    I agree Some people do claim PIP successfully first time I did, it was when it came to a review assessment (before my original award had ran out) the review assessment had stated nothing wrong with me on every descriptor which contricted my previous assessment which had said my condition was not curable and therefore unlikely for any change with my restrictions/ daily activity. My GP also backed this up however my PIP was still refused and had to appeal which took almost 3 years in which I won. Even my local MP said it is a broken system and it doesn’t work in helping the most vulnerable in our society. The government need to put this right reguardles of how many claim PIP successfully. 
  • horishoris Member - under moderation Posts: 23 Connected
    The blatant staff employed by these firms are employed with a hardness to emotionalless feeling , And need naming and shaming on t the internet social media platforms period ! Name and shame let these people feel the other side of the coin !
  • twonkertwonker Member - under moderation Posts: 617 Pioneering
    edited March 2019
    jenn2008 said:
    @alley88
    im not sure about cctv outside of the interview room but it’s worth checking. I know  their  not allowed to use cctv in interview rooms without your permission just as we are not allowed to record them 
    An interesting observation. CCTV can be used anywhere except in places that might cause offence such as toilets and changing rooms.
     I can tell you that all rooms used by government departments that are used as interview rooms do have CCTV. It is there to record and protect the interviewers from assault etc. You might as well say that the video recording in police interview rooms should not be used.

    The recordings are not viewed as a matter of course, but the footage is available to view afterwards. 
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