PIP, DLA and AA
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The Yes No questions

CockneyRebelCockneyRebel Member Posts: 5,257 Disability Gamechanger
Forums are full of tales of injustice, of HCP's that lie, that make stupid assumptions. HCP's are taught how to ask question, much like sales people, to gain a specific answer. No it isn't right and often a false result is recorded.

Assessors use closed questions and what they ask is not what they mean
For example, an assessor might ask " Can you walk 50 metres ? "

The full question is " Can you walk 50 meters Safely, Repeatedly, To an acceptable standard and in a reasonable time ? "

The answer to the first might be "yes, but I need to rest after 20 meters "
The answer to the second might be " No, but if I rest 2 or 3 times I might be able to "

We are all conditioned to reply in the positive. " how are you "  "I am fine thanks " .

When asked can "you do x" we will reply automatically "yes but " that is to late the assessor has closed the window at yes

Try and reply "no but  " the assessor then has to explore further

Try it in every day life.
Be all you can be, make  every day count. Namaste

Replies

  • wilkowilko Member Posts: 2,284 Disability Gamechanger
    How right you are, we are to quick to answer, think before you answer, or ask what do you mean, pardon can you repeat that, iam not sure what you mean, I wish I could do that, be aware of what the descriptors questions are about when you filled in your application form.
  • YadnadYadnad Posts: 2,856 Member
    Absolutely - my 3 assessments were all like that.

    As you say I was asked how far can I walk, I replied maybe a mile max, but...…..
    I was not allowed or given the time to explain that it would take me hours, leave me in agony for days to come and only in 20 metres bites.

    Yes I filled the PIP2 form correctly (well to the best of my ability) but the assessment report ridiculed everything that I had written.

    It was only when I forced the DWP to look at the spinal unit report again as well as the GP report that they agreed that I was entitled to enhanced mobility.
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    Yadnad said:

    As you say I was asked how far can I walk, I replied maybe a mile max, but...…..

    Then you wonder why you were refused....my mind boggles....
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 5,924 Disability Gamechanger
    Yadnad said:

    As you say I was asked how far can I walk, I replied maybe a mile max, but...…..

    Then you wonder why you were refused....my mind boggles....
    Make that two boggling minds. 

    I respectfully disagree with @[email protected] on this one. Better to leave yes and no out of it completely. Instead go with “I can’t reliably do that, because...”.
  • YadnadYadnad Posts: 2,856 Member
    Yadnad said:

    As you say I was asked how far can I walk, I replied maybe a mile max, but...…..

    Then you wonder why you were refused....my mind boggles....
    The truth is that I could walk for upwards of a mile. However it would be piece meal at 20 or so metre stints. For me to say no more than 20 metres would be a lie. 
    The question put to me was 'how far do you think that you could walk?'

    I would be very surprised that someone saying 20 metres and not again for 24 hours is normal. If that was the case there would be no need for the reliability factor.
    What I wanted to explain was yes I could walk that distance but extremely slowly with multiple stops every 15/20 metres Take a few minutes to get my breath back and for the pain to subside then off I would go again. If you have to get from a to b in that manner most people that I know would push through the pain barrier to eventually complete the activity otherwise you would never get anywhere.

    So should I have lied and said that the max was 15/20 metres or should I have been absolutely truthful?

    The whole argument here is that the assessors were not willingly to listen to any explanation.
  • YadnadYadnad Posts: 2,856 Member
    Yadnad said:

    As you say I was asked how far can I walk, I replied maybe a mile max, but...…..

    Then you wonder why you were refused....my mind boggles....
    Make that two boggling minds. 

    I respectfully disagree with @[email protected] on this one. Better to leave yes and no out of it completely. Instead go with “I can’t reliably do that, because...”.
    But if you are asked to give a reply to a closed question as most of us are, the natural answer is either yes or no. Your answer is ignoring the direct question and is offering an answer to a question that has not been asked.
    How far can you walk and how many minutes would it take you?

    I can't reliably do that because...….. ???????
  • atlas46atlas46 Member Posts: 827 Pioneering
    Hi

    Can I be classed, as another "mind boggled" on this one. He can walk a mile and wants to claim PIP! Clearly, he has no concept of disabilities and the impact we face each day.
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 5,924 Disability Gamechanger
    Made that complaint to my manager yet @atlas46? Making empty threats on a public forum! Tsk. 

    @yadnad if you’re daft enough to think that not answering a closed question with yes/no is somehow disrespectful or illogical then any claim you make will be doomed. Your ability to focus in on exactly the wrong part of an issue is uncanny and has clearly not served you well.
  • TardisTardis Member Posts: 214 Pioneering
    @yadnad; how long does it take you to walk the 500m odd to the school for governors' meetings or the 1km or so for Town council meetings?  You don't seem to miss any of them?  Do you get a lift or use a mobility scooter?  That's the kind of explanation you'd need to be giving.  It is obvious that you do these things regularly.  You need to describe how you manage to do them if you plan to make a claim.  You have said that you got angry with the assessor when they mentioned they had read your linkedin page and questioned you on how you managed to do so much given your difficulties.  You should have had an explanation ready.  Your former occupation (as you have described recently on here) should have prepared you for some degree of questioning.
  • YadnadYadnad Posts: 2,856 Member
    Tardis said:
    @yadnad; how long does it take you to walk the 500m odd to the school for governors' meetings or the 1km or so for Town council meetings?  You don't seem to miss any of them?  Do you get a lift or use a mobility scooter?  That's the kind of explanation you'd need to be giving.  It is obvious that you do these things regularly.  You need to describe how you manage to do them if you plan to make a claim.  You have said that you got angry with the assessor when they mentioned they had read your linkedin page and questioned you on how you managed to do so much given your difficulties.  You should have had an explanation ready.  Your former occupation (as you have described recently on here) should have prepared you for some degree of questioning.
    Actually I am with you all the way on what you have said.

    Unfortunately the assessors that I have had would not allow such explanations to be given - they wanted a yes/no answer to a closed question that they posed me.
    Of course I attempted to give a full explanation as to why I said what did, but when the assessor is already asking a new question about a totally unrelated descriptor it is hard trying to give the explanation AND offer an answer to another closed question.
    In my experience they did not want a 'because, why or how' adding to the answers I gave.

    Yes as I have mentioned before, I am collected by other councillors or friends and taken back home. As for the school, one of my daughters' is a teacher at the school and takes/collects me for meetings.

    I do have a good circle of family, friends and neighbours that help us both out when needed.
      
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 5,924 Disability Gamechanger
    All of the detail should be in the claim pack.
  • YadnadYadnad Posts: 2,856 Member
    It was and more besides.
    Unfortunately my answers at the assessment seemed to count for more than what I had already explained in writing.
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    I'm not even sure why you constantly keep going on about this. If you're within the 13 months to request the Tribunal then do it. If that's not what you want because as you say you have no one to represent you then move on. It seems like to me that you failed to fully understand the descriptors and what they mean at the time. Telling the HCP " you can walk a mile" is shooting yourself in the foot before you even start. I'm sorry but you seem to make it so hard for yourself. Your negative posts don't help anyone here.
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • YadnadYadnad Posts: 2,856 Member
    edited December 2018
    I'm not even sure why you constantly keep going on about this. If you're within the 13 months to request the Tribunal then do it. If that's not what you want because as you say you have no one to represent you then move on. It seems like to me that you failed to fully understand the descriptors and what they mean at the time. Telling the HCP " you can walk a mile" is shooting yourself in the foot before you even start. I'm sorry but you seem to make it so hard for yourself. Your negative posts don't help anyone here.
    Yes the limit expires next April.
    Yes I would love someone to take on the appeal for me if such an organisation actually exists.
    Physically and mentally I cannot cope with an appeal on my own.

    Telling a HCP that you can only walk 19 metres and not an inch more is probably not true in most cases. As an example if there was a fire and the exit was 30 metres away I am pretty sure that they would find the resolve to walk the extra 11 metres!
    Walking a mile is possible for most - it's how you would do it - taking stops every 20 metres, walking through pain etc. Everything is possible if you put your mind to it. That is what I meant with my statement but not being given the opportunity to explain why I said it and given the reliability factors how it would fit in with the descriptors.

    Ask yourself if you had to walk 200 metres could you do it? It doesn't matter how you would do it - that discussion/argument comes later in line with the descriptors and the reliability factor..
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 5,924 Disability Gamechanger
    I feel harsh in saying so but I can only second that. 
  • TardisTardis Member Posts: 214 Pioneering
    Yadnad said:
    Everything is possible if you put your mind to it. 
    Best laugh I've had all day.
  • Pippa_AlumniPippa_Alumni Scope alumni Posts: 5,851 Disability Gamechanger
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