PIP, DLA and AA
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Dla lifetime award

pllfan88pllfan88 Member Posts: 19 Listener
Hello, I'm looking for some advice for my dad.

My dad has secondary progressive MS,  he is currently still on Dla high rate for both. He has been on dla for around 15 years and is 63 will be 64 in June next year. 

He called dla last year to ask if and when he will be asked to claim PIP,  they said he wouldn't be asked as he has a lifetime award.

I was sure that dla was ending and everyone would eventually have to claim PIP. So I'm after some insight please. Should my dad just leave it or ask to claim PIP. 

Would my dad be allowed to claim PIP or would he have to claim attendance allowance once his dla ends? 

Sorry for ramblings I hope I make some sense! 

Thank you

Replies

  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    The advice he was given is incorrect. His lifetime DLA award no longer exists and he will be invited to apply for PIP eventually.

    All those that were 65 and under on 8th April 2013 will be invited to apply but they're way behind where they should be. There's a lot of people still waiting for that letter.

    I wouldn't advise him to rock the boat and apply before he gets the letter. At the moment he's still getting his DLA payments. There's no guarantee that he'll be awarded PIP and if this happens then his payments will stop.

    I wouldn't advise claiming AA because there's no mobility part to this.
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • TardisTardis Member Posts: 214 Pioneering
    Unless a new government changes the rules, he will be asked to claim PIP eventually.  He doesn't need to do anything about it until he receives a letter 'inviting' him to claim.  He shouldn't make an attendance allowance claim as he will lose his mobility award forever. 


  • pllfan88pllfan88 Member Posts: 19 Listener
    Thank you for your responses, 

    My dad's MS is very advanced, he is a catheter user as he can't stand or walk at all, he only has very limited use of both hands too, my mum cares for him full time and I mean has to do everything including feed him. It is very sad to see, hence I wanted the advice as my mum  really hasn't any idea about the PIP or attendance allowance benefits.

    Just to confirm even when he reaches 64, his dla will continue until he is invited to claim PIP?

    Thanks again.


  • TardisTardis Member Posts: 214 Pioneering
    Yes it will continue until they have made a decision on his PIP application.  If he doesn't apply for PIP when invited, the DLA will stop then.
  • YadnadYadnad Posts: 2,856 Member
    Tardis said:
    If he doesn't apply for PIP when invited, the DLA will stop then.
    ……..in which case he can then claim Attendance Allowance.
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    Yadnad said:
    Tardis said:
    If he doesn't apply for PIP when invited, the DLA will stop then.
    ……..in which case he can then claim Attendance Allowance.
    Why do that when there's the mandatory reconsideration then Tribunal for the PIP, if the worst happens.
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • YadnadYadnad Posts: 2,856 Member
    Yadnad said:
    Tardis said:
    If he doesn't apply for PIP when invited, the DLA will stop then.
    ……..in which case he can then claim Attendance Allowance.
    Why do that when there's the mandatory reconsideration then Tribunal for the PIP, if the worst happens.
    Firstly I was just finishing off the statement from Tardis and secondly not everyone is able enough or strong enough to cope with a Tribunal hearing. Some may prefer to call a halt and go the Attendance Allowance route instead.
    It fascinates me to continually read that people are told that they should always appeal and ignore the capabilities of the claimant. Many claimants have no help professional or otherwise and have to go it alone. Many just couldn't face the stress involved or the time it takes to get to a hearing.

  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 5,937 Disability Gamechanger
    In 30 odd years I’ve never met the person who would go the AA route and abandon a DLA or PIP challenge. Literally not one. What an exception I must be in the advice world! Your assertion is speculation based largely on your own experience.

    Fascinating as you may find it, the reality is that the overwhelming majority of people have access to both advice and representation in some form but most claimants are unrepresenred and do just fine. 
  • TardisTardis Member Posts: 214 Pioneering
    @yadnad; you were not finishing off my statement as I had already finished it.  It sounds as though the gentleman in question has a supportive son/daughter who is prepared to assist their father through the process.
  • pllfan88pllfan88 Member Posts: 19 Listener
    Thanks again for all your comments. I will of course fight for my dad if need be, I can only hope it won't come to that. 

    If my dad was to be denied pip then there is a serious flaw with the system, he really can't do anything for himself, he needs assistance for everything. 

    But as I have seen on here, people in need still have to fight, so we will be fully prepared.
  • TonymooreTonymoore Member Posts: 2 Listener
    You should not have to claim PIP - as your dad was/is over 60 at the point that he would be asked to. In those cases - for those getting DLA at that age - indefinitely - then the payments continue - as DLA indefinitely.

  • ricky1040ricky1040 Member Posts: 99 Pioneering
    From the discriptuon you provide of your dads condition they may not even need to meet him. 

    In my oppinion you should seek a subject access request now for your dads full medical records and send them in with your application and a detailed gp analysis. Its rare but given his situation they may well frant the award on this basis alone. I have a relative that had this happen. It is rare but possible. 

    But the above is correct unless hes over 65 he will regardless have to make the application to pip at some point in the bear future. 

  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    edited December 2018
    Tonymoore said:
    You should not have to claim PIP - as your dad was/is over 60 at the point that he would be asked to. In those cases - for those getting DLA at that age - indefinitely - then the payments continue - as DLA indefinitely.

    Sorry but this is not correct. When PIP was first introduced in April 2013, if you weren't 65 on 8th April 2013 then you will eventually be asked to apply. Indefinaite awards no longer exist for people in this age group.


    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • ricky1040ricky1040 Member Posts: 99 Pioneering
    Yea poppy is correct here but am sure they meant no malice and just tryign to help as we are too
  • YadnadYadnad Posts: 2,856 Member
    In 30 odd years I’ve never met the person who would go the AA route and abandon a DLA or PIP challenge. Literally not one. What an exception I must be in the advice world! Your assertion is speculation based largely on your own experience.

    Fascinating as you may find it, the reality is that the overwhelming majority of people have access to both advice and representation in some form but most claimants are unrepresenred and do just fine. 
    I can fully understand why you have had no client go the AA route - simply because they approached you and you offered to help fight the poor DLA/PIP decision. I too would be very surprised if any would go down that route after having had advice from a welfare rights organisation. If that client had not have obtained the advice you offered I do wonder what they would have done.

    I won't argue the old chestnut of not having a decent and professional advice. Yes there are many around, but are they fit to advise?

    I gave up my PIP after a long history with the DWP, but realised that I don't quite fit the criteria for AA either. 

    Yes I have sought advice from many organisations in the past but to be truthful none have given me the confidence of finding someone that knows their job or has the time to sit down with me and explain or guide me.. As you are aware one of them here in Kent, CROP, actually blew any chance of AA that my wife had with how they completed the claim form!. 

  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 5,937 Disability Gamechanger
    I don’t supppse it’s occurred that many of us come across people who have acted and only then sought advice? Happens all the time. People who don’t get advice or get it from their mates mate in the pub or whatever. Have seen all manger if disasters and UC will trigger more than ever. Have never seen anyone do as you describe. Don’t know of anyone else in advice across the UK who has either. 

    Find it odd you genuinely think I work in advice and yet my answers would be simplistic or somehow miss some obvious point that only you have spotted.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 172 Pioneering
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  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 5,937 Disability Gamechanger
    The conversion doesn’t complete until next April and having already slid across the original deadline it will no doubt go past that too. We’re told that everyone has converted from IB to ESA but that’s certainly not true.

    Position re: lifetime awards will vary depending on the level of DLA award. There are many with lower rate awards who would be better moving to PIP sooner rather than later. 

    Not going to engage with @Yadnad as regards whether people are fit to advise or whether he fits the PIP or AA criteria. Bottom line is that he repeatedly confesses he finds it all too complex. That being the case then he’s not in a position to judge on what is or isn’t good/competent advice. From what he’s posted at length on his own health his AA entitlement would be pretty clear cut but there’s no telling some people when it comes to finding complexity where there really isn’t any.
  • YadnadYadnad Posts: 2,856 Member
    I don’t supppse it’s occurred that many of us come across people who have acted and only then sought advice? Happens all the time. People who don’t get advice or get it from their mates mate in the pub or whatever. Have seen all manger if disasters and UC will trigger more than ever. Have never seen anyone do as you describe. Don’t know of anyone else in advice across the UK who has either. 

    Find it odd you genuinely think I work in advice and yet my answers would be simplistic or somehow miss some obvious point that only you have spotted.
    Not quite sure what you are saying in your last paragraph, but are you suggesting that I am the only one that has not taken the DWP to a Tribunal where a decision appears to be wrong?

    I've read of three on this forum recently that they don't want to take it that far and have given up.

    I have always attempted to seek advice before I act, but with time constraints put there by the DWP such advice was not available in time - so it was a case of going it alone. Any advice, if it was offered, would then be irrelevant.


  • ricky1040ricky1040 Member Posts: 99 Pioneering
    really sad you guys r having this argument. We should be supporting one another. 
  • TardisTardis Member Posts: 214 Pioneering
    That is true ricky, but unfortunately not all posters got the memo.  Mikehughescq gives excellent advice and is very helpful.
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 5,937 Disability Gamechanger
    Yadnad said:
    I don’t supppse it’s occurred that many of us come across people who have acted and only then sought advice? Happens all the time. People who don’t get advice or get it from their mates mate in the pub or whatever. Have seen all manger if disasters and UC will trigger more than ever. Have never seen anyone do as you describe. Don’t know of anyone else in advice across the UK who has either. 

    Find it odd you genuinely think I work in advice and yet my answers would be simplistic or somehow miss some obvious point that only you have spotted.
    Not quite sure what you are saying in your last paragraph, but are you suggesting that I am the only one that has not taken the DWP to a Tribunal where a decision appears to be wrong?

    I've read of three on this forum recently that they don't want to take it that far and have given up.

    I have always attempted to seek advice before I act, but with time constraints put there by the DWP such advice was not available in time - so it was a case of going it alone. Any advice, if it was offered, would then be irrelevant.


    I’m saying that your idea that I wouldn’t have had any clients elect to go for AA instead is based on wholly incorrect assumptions about who and what advisers see. Your latest assertion about three on this forum is nothing to the point. Yes, people give up all the time. Do they give up and then claim AA? No. That’s a ludicrous assertion. 
  • YadnadYadnad Posts: 2,856 Member
    edited December 2018



    I’m saying that your idea that I wouldn’t have had any clients elect to go for AA instead is based on wholly incorrect assumptions about who and what advisers see. Your latest assertion about three on this forum is nothing to the point. Yes, people give up all the time. Do they give up and then claim AA? No. That’s a ludicrous assertion. 
     Well and to the point, I have given up with PIP and no. I am not claiming AA.
    However having said that I have heard it many times that PIP is considered more difficult to get than AA is.
    I don't have the figures that could prove or disprove that statement.
    But what I can say that if that is the case surely people may well go for the easier option than the PIP option. My experience of AA (my wife) is that the second claim made was without any difficulty - a lifetime award for the day and night elements was made.

    As for PIP, and I only go by my own case, what right minded individual would want to undergo face to face assessments every 2 years for the rest of their natural and with the decisions always being negative, having to fight to get the right award each time? For some maybe the AA option is much preferable. 
  • TardisTardis Member Posts: 214 Pioneering
    That would make some sense, unless a mobility award was in payment.   
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 5,937 Disability Gamechanger
    edited December 2018
    Yadnad said:



    I’m saying that your idea that I wouldn’t have had any clients elect to go for AA instead is based on wholly incorrect assumptions about who and what advisers see. Your latest assertion about three on this forum is nothing to the point. Yes, people give up all the time. Do they give up and then claim AA? No. That’s a ludicrous assertion. 
    As for PIP, and I only go by my own case, what right minded individual would want to undergo face to face assessments every 2 years for the rest of their natural and with the decisions always being negative, having to fight to get the right award each time? For some maybe the AA option is much preferable. 
    Probably someone who failed to get advice and realise that you could ask for an ongoing or 10 year award.
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  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 5,937 Disability Gamechanger
    It’s really not that hard at all. Most people put so much effort into misguided medical evidence rather than functional anecdotes they completely forget to discuss the length of award they’re asking for and why. 

    I’ve had one PIP award in 4 years fall short of ongoing/10 years when you ask for it and explain up front why.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 172 Pioneering
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  • YadnadYadnad Posts: 2,856 Member
    Yadnad said:



    I’m saying that your idea that I wouldn’t have had any clients elect to go for AA instead is based on wholly incorrect assumptions about who and what advisers see. Your latest assertion about three on this forum is nothing to the point. Yes, people give up all the time. Do they give up and then claim AA? No. That’s a ludicrous assertion. 
    As for PIP, and I only go by my own case, what right minded individual would want to undergo face to face assessments every 2 years for the rest of their natural and with the decisions always being negative, having to fight to get the right award each time? For some maybe the AA option is much preferable. 
    Probably someone who failed to get advice and realise that you could ask for an ongoing or 10 year award.
    Until after the last MR I had no idea that it was possible to even suggest a period for an award. I have always believed that it was entirely down to the case manager.
    So knowing that now is no good as knowing it before would have helped.
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 5,937 Disability Gamechanger
    Nothing can help you @Yadnad. Everybody else is wrong. Everything positive is too late. Oh well.
  • TardisTardis Member Posts: 214 Pioneering
    @mikehughescq; it isn't too late for the rest of us.  I will be asking for a longer award at my daughter's review next year.  Thank you for making me aware of that possibility.
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 5,937 Disability Gamechanger
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    My daughter's in the process of her review. I've already asked for an ongoing award, gave my reasons why i think it should be given. I also asked if an ongoing award can't be given to identify the evidence they used to justify a shorter award. As advised by @mikehughescq
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • YadnadYadnad Posts: 2,856 Member
    Nothing can help you @Yadnad. Everybody else is wrong. Everything positive is too late. Oh well.
    Sorry Mike but something could help - a Welfare Rights organisation that is willing to offer help and advice that I can trust is genuine and correct. Not too much to ask for?
    No, everybody is not wrong, both Poppy and Tardis didn't know about the request for the length of an award - luckily they now do and are able to act of that information with current and future reviews.
    It is too late for me as my review took place months ago so there is little that I can do about it at this late stage.
    I would imagine that there are 1,000's that didn't know also before their reviews this year.

  • YadnadYadnad Posts: 2,856 Member
    edited December 2018
    My daughter's in the process of her review. I've already asked for an ongoing award, gave my reasons why i think it should be given. I also asked if an ongoing award can't be given to identify the evidence they used to justify a shorter award. As advised by @mikehughescq
    Luckily[[y you have been able to make use of the information that Mike gave as regards the length of an award. Not everybody has that good fortune.
  • YadnadYadnad Posts: 2,856 Member
    Tardis said:
    @mikehughescq; it isn't too late for the rest of us.  I will be asking for a longer award at my daughter's review next year.  Thank you for making me aware of that possibility.
    Quite fortunate then?

  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 5,937 Disability Gamechanger
    I’ve never come across a WR organisation unwilling to offer help and advice unless they think the person is violent or had no entitlement. W gag you mean by genuine and correct I have no idea.
  • YadnadYadnad Posts: 2,856 Member
    I’ve never come across a WR organisation unwilling to offer help and advice unless they think the person is violent or had no entitlement. W gag you mean by genuine and correct I have no idea.
    Put simply Mike not giving out duff information or making suggestions that they are proficient in something only to find out later that they are not.
    I will be totally honest I have personally only ever had the pleasure of having one WRO who said what they would do and actually did it. He was an absolute saint but unfortunately he went by the wayside when Social Services dispensed with the WRO's in a cost cutting exercise. Now Social Workers offer advice but only to ongoing clients - the general public have no access to it.
     Likewise the help I had from the Law Clinic at the uni was fantastic . Without them I could not have managed at the Tribunal in the Council Tax appeal.
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