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PIP documents for advisor

YadnadYadnad Posts: 2,856 Member
I have a professional welfare advisor working for me with regards to an appeal. The MR decision was early last year but is still within the 13 month deadline.
He has submitted a 'holding' application to the Tribunal and is wanting to submit a more comprehensive submission.
This morning I received a long letter that looks more like a shopping list.
For a start I don't have any of the following documents as I shred most things within a few weeks of deciding that they are no longer of use to me.

He wants 
copies of the 2015 & 2017 review applications that I sent in (PIP2)
copies of the assessors' reports relating to those two claims
copies of the decision notices - awarding 0 points on each claim made
copies of the MR applications and the submissions I made 
copies of all of the evidence I submitted for both claims and both MR
copy of the revised decision - awarding High Care & Mobility for the 2015 claim
copy of the MR decision which stated no change for the 2017 claim.
 
I presume he thinks that I have all of the above so could anybody help and tell me where and how I could get all of this together from and how long it could take?


He has also asked about medical records from various hospitals etc. I am hoping that the GP will hold that lot.


Thanks

Replies

  • wilkowilko Member Posts: 2,294 Disability Gamechanger
    Hello yadnad, I keep telling people to keep your medical records ect you never know when you will need them and copies of items sent to claims offices. You may be able to contact DWP asking what information they have on you regarding PIP from your first claim to date. I got mine reference ESA made some intresinting information about my claim and being accessed ect. It took a while to arrive by courier an inch and a half deep bigger sheets than A4 most printed both sides. Everything noted and revorded down to each phone call to them by myself logged with reference number. With all the legal disclosure of information will make it hard going proving who you are when requesting such information.
  • YadnadYadnad Posts: 2,856 Member
    edited January 2019
    Thanks but if I was to keep all of the records for all of the benefits that I have claimed in the past and currently there will be no room for me to get into my office at home! Personally I don't see any real need to keep documents for claims beyond the current one. However as I had no intention of appealing against the last claim there was no point in keeping that information either as the claim was closed down.
    As for medical records the only ones I had kept until last year were the two reports sent with all three claims. However as the DWP wrote and told me following the MR last year that the reports were out of date (more than two years old) and of no use (dated 2011 & 2012) they too were shredded.
    I do however have an up to date repeat prescription list.
    Apart from those two reports I have never had anything else from anybody including from the many hospital consultants.

    Do you know how to ask the DWP for all of the information requested?
  • wilkowilko Member Posts: 2,294 Disability Gamechanger
    Yadnad, I found it by chance on a government site. Goggle personal information held by The DWP and this should lead you to their page I am sure it can all be done on line. Hope this helps.
  • YadnadYadnad Posts: 2,856 Member
    wilko said:
    Yadnad, I found it by chance on a government site. Goggle personal information held by The DWP and this should lead you to their page I am sure it can all be done on line. Hope this helps.
    Thanks, I have just finished doing it online - quite easy really.
    Will see what they send me in due course.
  • YadnadYadnad Posts: 2,856 Member
    edited January 2019
    Opened the post this morning to find a notification for me to attend another PIP face to face assessment on the 1st February!!!
    What the ******** are they playing at?
    As you all know the last assessment was confirmed at MR stage in April last year at 0 points. I have not applied for a new claim (appeal now pending) and obviously I failed the previous assessment. Not at all happy. Is this normal or just a way of putting enough pressure on me to crack up completely? I have no intention of attending as the worst that they can do is close my claim/award down which doesn't actually exist.

    I have spoken to my rep and he says that it is up to me whether I go as they can't change the original decision this way. He is of the opinion that the DWP still want to keep on re-assessing me every two years or so even though I don't have a current award and haven't had one since the start of 2018. Another thought he had is that the DWP are trying to create a 'closed period' for the Tribunal decision if I win.

    All I want is justice and for the Tribunal to see me and my case in respect of the last decision. I don't want to get back on the PIP merry go round with these ridiculous assessments. It's only been 18 months since the last assessment.

    Any thoughts?

  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    Personally i think your rep is incorrect here. They wouldn't keep on re-assessing you because you don't have an existing award, that would be totally ridiculous.

    All i can think of here, is this maybe to do with the changes that took place for following and planning a journey last year. I know they're reviewing everyone's claim for this, whether they claim for following and planning a journey or not.

    The reason i know this is because last week i received a letter because they had reviewed my claim. I still have the same award, for the same length of time and i don't claim for following and planning a journey. It's possible they could be reviewing everyone that was assessed between those dates, whether they have an existing award in place or not.

    Whether you attend that assessment or not, is entirely your choice. If it was me, i'd go and see what happens. The decision may change without you taking it to Tribunal. Or just pick the phone and ring the number on the letter and ask exactly what's going on and why you've been called for the assessment because you don't have an existing award. You'll most likely get more answers that way than people guessing on here.
    Proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice I have given to members here on the community.
  • YadnadYadnad Posts: 2,856 Member
    Personally i think your rep is incorrect here. They wouldn't keep on re-assessing you because you don't have an existing award, that would be totally ridiculous.

    All i can think of here, is this maybe to do with the changes that took place for following and planning a journey last year. I know they're reviewing everyone's claim for this, whether they claim for following and planning a journey or not.

    The reason i know this is because last week i received a letter because they had reviewed my claim. I still have the same award, for the same length of time and i don't claim for following and planning a journey. It's possible they could be reviewing everyone that was assessed between those dates, whether they have an existing award in place or not.

    Whether you attend that assessment or not, is entirely your choice. If it was me, i'd go and see what happens. The decision may change without you taking it to Tribunal. Or just pick the phone and ring the number on the letter and ask exactly what's going on and why you've been called for the assessment because you don't have an existing award. You'll most likely get more answers that way than people guessing on here.
    Yes you are right Poppy - I'll get on with it this afternoon and report back.
    The comments from the rep were a bit of 'blue sky thinking'.
    I never claimed for any of the psychiatric problems that are causing an impact as in a previous assessment report (2013/14) they were dismissed as a bit of 'blue sky thinking' on my part - they came up with 14 reasons why I do not and never have had any mental health problems. I never fought that reasoning but instead concentrated on other descriptors that I could prove existed to give me the 12+ points both for care and mobility.
    Personally I don't see the point in going as there is no current award in place and I have not made a new claim. As for it being some way of finding out now what my situation was at the back end of 2017, they already have that information and me repeating now, that is if I can remember that far back, is a waste of time and effort. If it is being used to create a 'stop' to any award that the Tribunal may make I would not be too happy. 
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    The question is, have you requested the Tribunal yet? If you haven't then how would they even know that;s what you're planning on doing?

    Even though you didn't score any points for following an planning a journey they can still review a claim. I'll be interested to hear what they say once you've rang.
    Proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice I have given to members here on the community.
  • streestree Member Posts: 41 Courageous
    Regarding the retention of documents:
    I regard it as an essential part of the process, both for ESA and for PIP.
    I have copies of every document raised for both since 2012, both in original hard copy and in PDF format. Every page has my DOB full name and NHS number at the top.
    Many of the originals were batches of 6 or so pages, I retain the 1 or perhaps 2 that have the essence of the communication, the rest are binned.
    PDF copies are the full correspondence.
    The same goes for medical records and appointments.
    Apart from anything else these act a a diary of when events happened or began, what they were concerned with and any results given.
    If you do not even have room for 2 or 3 A4 flap folders then keeping PDFs at least is a must.
    Destroying files does, or can, leave you somewhat defenceless just when you need all the resources you can muster.
  • YadnadYadnad Posts: 2,856 Member
    The question is, have you requested the Tribunal yet? If you haven't then how would they even know that;s what you're planning on doing?

    Even though you didn't score any points for following an planning a journey they can still review a claim. I'll be interested to hear what they say once you've rang.
    Yes the rep has already put in an application on the basis that further information /full submission will be sent shortly. I am waiting for the DWP to send me a copy of my PIP file as I have no record of what I had sent them in the past or even the three previous face to face reports/decision letters. I received a letter from the DWP early this week saying that they are sending the info within the next month. Nothing more can be done until that lot turns up.

    I don't understand that and neither does my rep.
    The original claim is dead in the water, it has been since last April.
    But then if they are doing what you suggest surely it should be based on what was claimed at the time - why would it matter what the impact is on my life now?

    I have telephoned ATOS? who sent me this letter and to be honest I didn't get any further than them telling me that I should telephone the DWP. Seems to be a case of 'don't blame me I'm just following orders'.
    I will ring the DWP in the morning. to see what they have to say for themselves.

  • YadnadYadnad Posts: 2,856 Member
    edited January 2019
    stree said:
    Regarding the retention of documents:
    I regard it as an essential part of the process, both for ESA and for PIP.
    I have copies of every document raised for both since 2012, both in original hard copy and in PDF format. Every page has my DOB full name and NHS number at the top.
    Many of the originals were batches of 6 or so pages, I retain the 1 or perhaps 2 that have the essence of the communication, the rest are binned.
    PDF copies are the full correspondence.
    The same goes for medical records and appointments.
    Apart from anything else these act a a diary of when events happened or began, what they were concerned with and any results given.
    If you do not even have room for 2 or 3 A4 flap folders then keeping PDFs at least is a must.
    Destroying files does, or can, leave you somewhat defenceless just when you need all the resources you can muster.
    I hear what you say but given the amount of paperwork I receive and deal with on a monthly basis never mind 5 years worth would have people thinking that I am a hoarder. You have to remember that not only am I to oversee all of the financial recording and budgets for the school as well as council business and the three committees that I sit on I am also the chair of directors of a local large charity.
    Yes in hindsight I could have scanned them, but to be honest when the DWP tell you that documents and reports are no longer appropriate as the contents of them are too old what is the point in keeping them. As for previous claims over the years, when one award ceases and another starts the old stuff is not needed.

  • YadnadYadnad Posts: 2,856 Member
    UPDATE.

    Eventually I managed (after four previous telephone requests) to speak with what he described himself as a case manager.
     

    My question to him was why am I being told to have another re-assessment on Friday for PIP when not only do I not have a current award but that I have not made a new claim either.
    After a few umms and aahhs he told me that it was requested following information submitted by my rep in respect of an appeal. After what had been put forward by him it gave the DWP reasons to doubt the quality of the original assessors report.
     This new assessment will replace the one …. then he stopped....carried out in October 2017??? Surely that can't be right.
    Then he asked if the date was correct - yes it is. 

    Then I asked if he was being serious - how can a new assessment to be carried out on the 1st February 2019 be at all relevant as to how I was in October 2017? He could not offer any explanation other than to try to blame me for the long delay in that an appeal should have been lodged nearly 12 months ago when a revised assessment would have had more relevant. I asked if that was what would have happened? He couldn't comment. 

    So to push this further I told him that it was ludicrous and having now been told what the DWP think of the original assessment upon which the original decision had been made what do the DWP intend to do next if I refuse to attend this coming assessment - the DWP can't very well stop an award for failing to comply as there is no award in place. At best my belief is that the DWP could well attempt to use it as a means to restrict what a Tribunal may award. He would make no further comment other than to say that the new assessment stands no matter how ridiculous it is and it is up to me to go or not to go only and after then will the DWP decide their next move.

    So that's it, not happy  at all after hearing that the DWP now realise that the original assessment is flawed and that I am expected to pretend on Friday that I was back in October 2017 and having to remember what I was like at that time and what descriptors were relevant to me. It's an impossible task to ask of me.
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    edited January 2019
    If that's the case then you'll have exactly the same problem when attending the Tribunal hearing. In fact the Tribunal hearing could be even worse because the backlogs are so long you could well be waiting in excess of a year from now, that's 2020 before you have your hearing date. So you'll have even more problems remembering what you were like back then.

    Seems like you're never happy, sorry but you've been given the chance to have another assessment on Friday, yet you're still not happy. I know what i'd be doing...
    Proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice I have given to members here on the community.
  • streestree Member Posts: 41 Courageous
    Deal with the hand you are dealt with,you have an opportunity and it is up to you to make the best of it.
    As for demanding a perfect system before you feel you can comply? Well that is up to you, you alone know which itch you need to scratch most.
    I would take the reassessment as I feel would most folk.
  • YadnadYadnad Posts: 2,856 Member
    If that's the case then you'll have exactly the same problem when attending the Tribunal hearing. In fact the Tribunal hearing could be even worse because the backlogs are so long you could well be waiting in excess of a year from now, that's 2020 before you have your hearing date. So you'll have even more problems remembering what you were like back then.

    Seems like you're never happy, sorry but you've been given the chance to have another assessment on Friday, yet you're still not happy. I know what i'd be doing...
    I agree, but by that time I will have received copies of all  of my PIP file to refer to. Going on Friday I have nothing, not even a copy of the 2017 claim form and what I put on it.

    So you would go? Could you answer questions and explain yourself exactly what you were like 16 months ago and have nothing to remind you or for you to refer to before hand?

    I would be walking in totally blind. I know I wasn't driving at the time so that's a start I suppose.

    But as you say what harm can it do if I did go? I just think that it is a ridiculous situation to be put in and on balance they can't recommend anything worse than what they wrote previously in the report - 0 points
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    Sorry, but to me it seems like you place barriers in every direction you turn. I wish you good luck but i'm out of this thread.
    Proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice I have given to members here on the community.
  • YadnadYadnad Posts: 2,856 Member
    edited January 2019
    stree said:
    Deal with the hand you are dealt with,you have an opportunity and it is up to you to make the best of it.
    As for demanding a perfect system before you feel you can comply? Well that is up to you, you alone know which itch you need to scratch most.
    I would take the reassessment as I feel would most folk.
    Yes as you say I will go.
    All the assessor can do is assess me as I am today - how on earth they can relate that to 16 months ago I just don't know. I can imagine that there will be fun and games tomorrow.

    Does anybody know what would happen when I am still awarded 0 points? The appeal will continue obviously but would the DWP then use this assessment against me?



  • YadnadYadnad Posts: 2,856 Member
    Sorry, but to me it seems like you place barriers in every direction you turn. I wish you good luck but i'm out of this thread.
    Not at all. The barriers are already in place put there by the DWP who are presumably intending to carry out an assessment which is based on what I was like 16 months ago.
    In a way I hope that this assessor makes all the same mistakes, errors and wrong assumptions again. It would demonstrate the problems within the system.
  • YadnadYadnad Posts: 2,856 Member
    UPDATE

    Well arrived back home after the assessment this morning. I asked before we started if she was intending to assess me as I am now or how I was in late 2017 as this is not for a new claim but an additional assessment for the previous claim.
    She was quite curt and said as I am now!

    So I gave her the ins and outs of what impact my health conditions currently cause and qualified each answer with 'but, it may or may not have been the case 16 months ago as I cannot remember'.

    It was just the usual 'would you agree?' type of questions.

    No idea how it went as the atmosphere between us was rather frosty - not from me, but her tone and demeanour said it all.

    Will just have to wait now and see what stories and assumptions she comes up with this time.

  • leefrenleefren Member Posts: 21 Listener
    The DWP, 
    Department wicked people
  • YadnadYadnad Posts: 2,856 Member
    FINAL UPDATE.

    I have had a letter (not a decision notice??) to say that following the face to face assessment that I had on the 1st Feb 2019 the Case Manger will not be changing the decision of 2017 (0 points). He continues to say that in view of this assessment report and the one carried out in 2017 the DWP will be asking for my appeal to be dismissed on the grounds that it clearly has no merit.

    I still can't understand what they wanted to achieve in trying to do a face to face assessment 17 months after the last one. I don't even know if they had the authority to carry this one out given that my PIP ceased and was closed in early 2018 and no further claims have been made other than an appeal was recently lodged against the 2017 decision.

    Anyhow it looks very much like that the DWP are intending to strongly oppose the appeal and will probably cite this new assessment report as further evidence that I was not entitled to PIP in 2017.

    That's it I really give up. There is no way that I am going to be able to cope with the long wait for a hearing and with the DWP throwing the results of these two assessments at me - not entitled in 2017 and still not entitled in 2019. I am fearful of being made to look a complete idiot and benefit scrounger.

    This is to be my last posting on this site as I have already asked to mods to close my account based on the complaint issued against me. My posting privileges have already been removed as any future postings are subject to the discretion of the mods and subsequently will have my account closed by them in any event - jump before I get pushed.
     
    Just to say I have learned a lot from this site and have corresponded with some brilliant people. Best of luck for the future to you all.



  • haveacigarhaveacigar Member Posts: 16 Courageous
    @Yadnad
    Well I must say that I, for one, will miss your verbal jousting with other posters. You sometimes made me mad, you sometimes made me smile but you always seemed to be informative and dedicated to your principles, which I admire. Any forum needs opposing views.
    Good luck to you.
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