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Girlfriend finally received Mandatory Reconsideration result

PIPnewbiePIPnewbie Member Posts: 261 Pioneering
And it looks like they just copy and pasted the original result.  A meagre 8 points for Daily Living, and upholding of her original award of Standard Rate until June 2020.

Severe Crohn’s since birth that caused her 4 operations at 9, early arthritis, endometriosis, fibromyalgia, and other issues, all ruling her life, needing her to live by the toilet all day every day, getting non refreshing sleep, and life constantly in pain... and 8 points...

So what is the next step of this utter disgrace?  How do we go about a tribunal?  

Replies

  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    Hi,

    With only 18% of MR decisions changing this doesn't surprise me.

    Next step, is for her to request the Tribunal and she has 1 month from the date of the decision to do this. She needs to fill out the SSCS1 form and send the MR decision letter with it. Do be aware that waiting times for hearings are huge across most of the country and she could be waiting as long as 1 year for a hearing date. With review due in June this year, this will most likely take her past the decision of the review.


    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • PIPnewbiePIPnewbie Member Posts: 261 Pioneering
    Hi,

    With only 18% of MR decisions changing this doesn't surprise me.

    Next step, is for her to request the Tribunal and she has 1 month from the date of the decision to do this. She needs to fill out the SSCS1 form and send the MR decision letter with it. Do be aware that waiting times for hearings are huge across most of the country and she could be waiting as long as 1 year for a hearing date. With review due in June this year, this will most likely take her past the decision of the review.


    Thank you Poppy.

    The review is June next year isn’t it? 2020?

    Even so, what happens to PIP beneficiaries who are awaiting the tribunal for the original decision in the first place, but who have to go to a review before that?
  • Pipquestions2Pipquestions2 Member Posts: 92 Pioneering
    PIPnewbie said:
    Hi,

    With only 18% of MR decisions changing this doesn't surprise me.

    Next step, is for her to request the Tribunal and she has 1 month from the date of the decision to do this. She needs to fill out the SSCS1 form and send the MR decision letter with it. Do be aware that waiting times for hearings are huge across most of the country and she could be waiting as long as 1 year for a hearing date. With review due in June this year, this will most likely take her past the decision of the review.


    Thank you Poppy.

    The review is June next year isn’t it? 2020?

    Even so, what happens to PIP beneficiaries who are awaiting the tribunal for the original decision in the first place, but who have to go to a review before that?
    They do the reviews a year early apparently so it's 2019
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    They don't do reviews yearly, it depends on the length of the award. Reviews take place 1 year before the award is due to end. If the award ends next year, then review is this year.

    If review decisions come before the Tribunal hearing and the Tribunal goes in your favour then backdated money will only be up until the date of the review decision.
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • PIPnewbiePIPnewbie Member Posts: 261 Pioneering
    They don't do reviews yearly, it depends on the length of the award. Reviews take place 1 year before the award is due to end. If the award ends next year, then review is this year.

    If review decisions come before the Tribunal hearing and the Tribunal goes in your favour then backdated money will only be up until the date of the review decision.
    What does a review entail? Another face to face?

    And the tribunal can’t give their own award length?  Like they can’t give her a 5 year award that overrides the DWP’s decision?
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    Always class a review as a new claim, there's no difference in the process and face to face assessments are almost always needed. It's rare to have a paper based assessment, even for a review.

    Yes, a Tribunal decision length of time can overrule a DWP decision, just like an award can. However, if the review decision comes before the Tribunal decision then the new decision will overrule to Tribunal decision.
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • PIPnewbiePIPnewbie Member Posts: 261 Pioneering
    Always class a review as a new claim, there's no difference in the process and face to face assessments are almost always needed. It's rare to have a paper based assessment, even for a review.

    Yes, a Tribunal decision length of time can overrule a DWP decision, just like an award can. However, if the review decision comes before the Tribunal decision then the new decision will overrule to Tribunal decision.

    Good god this is a joke

    So next time don’t bother with the MR and just go for tribunal?  Wish somebody had told me.
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    That's not possible because you can't request the Tribunal without first asking for the MR. As previously advised you need the MR decision letter when sending the SSCS1 form. The Tribunal request will be refused without this.
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • PIPnewbiePIPnewbie Member Posts: 261 Pioneering
    That's not possible because you can't request the Tribunal without first asking for the MR. As previously advised you need the MR decision letter when sending the SSCS1 form. The Tribunal request will be refused without this.

    But then is the point in a tribunal even if they say oh she should have enhanced on both for 10 years, but it comes after another PIP decision to stiff her on points and only award it another measly year before the next review?
  • PIPnewbiePIPnewbie Member Posts: 261 Pioneering
    ilovecats said:
    PIPnewbie said:
    And it looks like they just copy and pasted the original result.  A meagre 8 points for Daily Living, and upholding of her original award of Standard Rate until June 2020.

    Severe Crohn’s since birth that caused her 4 operations at 9, early arthritis, endometriosis, fibromyalgia, and other issues, all ruling her life, needing her to live by the toilet all day every day, getting non refreshing sleep, and life constantly in pain... and 8 points...

    So what is the next step of this utter disgrace?  How do we go about a tribunal?  
    I'm going to play devils advocate here . . .

    I note that all of her problems are physical, and I assume she doesn't have a cognitive or sensory impairment, therefore she probably will not be able to score for Eating, Managing medication, Communicating, Reading, Engaging, Budgeting, or Planning a journey. Unless she has a physical condition which restricts her walking then she won't score for mobility either.

    I imagine she has scored 2 points for the following, Cooking, Washing, Dressing and if she is able to manage her Crohn's disease then she cannot score higher than a B for Toileting which is also two points.

    Have you ever stopped to consider that maybe she just doesn't fit the criteria for a higher award? I'm not saying she doesn't don't have a horrendous time with her conditions, but I'm sure you know that PIP isn't about diagnosis. Unless you have medical evidence from someone who agrees that she literally physically cannot do all those things maybe going to a tribunal will be more heartache than it is worth?

    I know it may not seem fair, and I have a bowel condition so I can sympathise. Perhaps just be content that she has a standard award and in the meantime see how see goes and if she worsens then present medical evidence at the review so prove this?
    Well her fibromyalgia is a recent diagnosis (5 days after her face to face), but she suffers with Crohn’s related arthritis, and is often so stiff in her limbs that she can barely walk and her hands and limbs have no strength to open her medication, pull up her jeans or joggers, etc.

    I don’t see how she can only score 2 points for toilet needs, since she is incontinent the majority of the time, and distresses her every time.

    I am going to take this to tribunal.  It would be pointless not to after all this fighting.  Everyone else seems to report huge success there, even after scoring 0 points. The person on the Crohn’s helpline agrees it is a ridiculous decision.

    And I’m annoyed that it seems anyone can just turn up to the doctor’s office, say they’re depressed, and all seem to get enhanced for both.
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    A diagnosis makes no difference to a PIP claim. It's about how those conditions affect your ability to carry out daily activities based on the PIP descriptors.

    Distress caused by incontinence won't score her anymore points for managing toilet needs.  Does she use an aid? If so and she scored 2 points that's correct. Even if assistance is needed, if they think she can reasonably use an aid then they'll score her 2 points.


    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • djbantiquesdjbantiques Member Posts: 43 Connected
    ilovecats said:
    Unless she had a cognitive or sensory impairment that would prevent her from managing her own incontinence then it’s unlikely she will score higher than B-2points.

    Is she under a specialist for her arthritis or take any arthritis medication? Does she have the visual symptoms of severe arthritis? Clawed hands/swollen joints?
    These are things that an assessor or tribunal will look for as evidence that her claim she cannot dress herself is true.

    If you feel you have a case then go for it but be prepared for a long drawn out fight. 

    Also, it’s actually quite hard to score for depression, even standard awards. Someone has to have a severe mental health condition to score and even then it’s hard to so without specialist medical input as proof.
    This is where the whole process falls down. Assessors not being informed on specialist conditions.
    Arthritis medication is not needed in ALL types of arthritis and the visual signs are often not present.
  • PIPnewbiePIPnewbie Member Posts: 261 Pioneering
    I’m sick to death of seeing that diagnoses have little bearing on PIP decisions, but then I explain exactly how she lives, how she’s affected, but then am told I need proof and diagnoses.

    She doesn’t have a cognitive or sensory impairment, but she physically cannot lower herself onto a toilet a lot of the time, nor is she able to dress herself, cook without assistance, etc. as her joints, limbs, wrists, knuckles, and legs are so stiff and aching, she cannot use them.  

    She can’t open her child-proof medication because she just doesn’t have the strength. So she should have had a point for that.

    And she definitely needs prompting to take nutrition.  Any eating causes her little remaining digestive system pain every single time, so she won’t eat of her own accord.  But let me guess, only counts for depressed people who can’t be bothered to cook, not somebody who has legitimately painful symptoms trying to eat.

    Also, we provided evidence of the arthritis with the sacroiliitis history in her notes.

    It’s not even the lack of points that’s most insulting, but the 1 year until review... as if she’s going to be doing so much better a year from the last face to face, with her lifelong, incurable diseases.
  • djbantiquesdjbantiques Member Posts: 43 Connected
    ilovecats said:
    ilovecats said:
    Unless she had a cognitive or sensory impairment that would prevent her from managing her own incontinence then it’s unlikely she will score higher than B-2points.

    Is she under a specialist for her arthritis or take any arthritis medication? Does she have the visual symptoms of severe arthritis? Clawed hands/swollen joints?
    These are things that an assessor or tribunal will look for as evidence that her claim she cannot dress herself is true.

    If you feel you have a case then go for it but be prepared for a long drawn out fight. 

    Also, it’s actually quite hard to score for depression, even standard awards. Someone has to have a severe mental health condition to score and even then it’s hard to so without specialist medical input as proof.
    This is where the whole process falls down. Assessors not being informed on specialist conditions.
    Arthritis medication is not needed in ALL types of arthritis and the visual signs are often not present.
    I am aware that not all types require medication. What I mean is that if it is severe there will some evidence of it, other than just their word that it hurts. Increased painkillers, specialist referral and input, OT or physio input, failed attempts at advanced medication, GP medical history showing repeat visits requesting help. All of these would indicate the severity is worse.

    Most assessors have a pretty good general knowledge of the common conditions and I personally used do some research if someone was coming in with something I hadn’t heard of. 
    That wasn't a dig at you . Re-reading it does come across that way but wasn't meant to.
    Sorry if you thought that way.
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    edited February 2019
    You don't need a diagnosis or proof of it to claim PIP. Activity 2, taking nutrition... The defined term ‘taking nutrition’ refers solely to the act of eating and drinking and so the quality of what is being consumed is irrelevant for the purposes of daily living activity 2. Therefore, if for any reason a claimant elects to have a bad or restricted diet, makes dietary choices or chooses to avoid certain foods as part of dietary requirements, they are nevertheless ‘taking nutrition’ to an acceptable standard and therefore will not score under activity 2.

    Where did she score those points? You really should look at all the descriptors and what they mean before going any further because it will be a lot work, time and effort if you go to Tribunal and she can't score anymore points for a higher award. How many points did she score for daily living?

    Have a look at this link. I'm sure i posted this for you in the past, did you ever take a proper look? It does explain the descriptors quite well. https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/personal-independence-payment-assessment-guide-for-assessment-providers/pip-assessment-guide-part-2-the-assessment-criteria#daily-living-activities

    I thought i'd also mention that my daughter has a learning disability and ASD. I applied for PIP for her for the first time in 2017. She was awarded Enhanced for both for 1 year. Of course there's a cure for both of these and she's miraculously going to be able to do everything for herself without any help and support..... not.



    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • PIPnewbiePIPnewbie Member Posts: 261 Pioneering
    Poppy, what about needs prompting to be able to take nutrition?

    And I love cats, are you a former PIP assessor?

    poppy, I’m actually going to bed in a minute.  I’m going to read through that link fully.  Even if I already have.
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    edited February 2019
    Prompting is part of that descriptor but not for your girlfriends condition because she chooses not to eat because of her condition. See my reasons in my previous comment.


    However, if a claimant needs prompting to eat because they have a physical or mental condition that affects their ability to make active choices about the food they consume (for example claimants with a learning disability or an eating disorder who because of that disorder need prompting to undertake the physical act of eating), they will qualify under descriptor D.

    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • PIPnewbiePIPnewbie Member Posts: 261 Pioneering
    Prompting is part of that descriptor but not for your girlfriends condition because she chooses not to eat because of her condition. See my reasons in my previous comment.


    However, if a claimant needs prompting to eat because they have a physical or mental condition that affects their ability to make active choices about the food they consume (for example claimants with a learning disability or an eating disorder who because of that disorder need prompting to undertake the physical act of eating), they will qualify under descriptor D.

    I just don't see the difference between that.  After all, one's reluctance to not eat because of the pain it causes and dreading each meal is nothing but mental condition.  Sad that they'll only consider people with generic issues like eating disorders, etc. and not special cases which legitimately fit those descriptors.
  • PIPnewbiePIPnewbie Member Posts: 261 Pioneering
    ilovecats said:
    PIPnewbie said:
    Poppy, what about needs prompting to be able to take nutrition?

    And I love cats, are you a former PIP assessor?

    poppy, I’m actually going to bed in a minute.  I’m going to read through that link fully.  Even if I already have.
    I am indeed. 
    Were you ever told to lie or to make a mountain out of a molehill, like when my girlfriend could pick up a bottle with 400ml of drink I already opened for her, and then put that she unscrewed it herself and lifting the bottle now means she can bathe herself and cook for herself just fine and dandy?
  • YadnadYadnad Member - under moderation Posts: 2,862 Disability Gamechanger
    ilovecats said:
    PIPnewbie said:
    ilovecats said:
    PIPnewbie said:
    Poppy, what about needs prompting to be able to take nutrition?

    And I love cats, are you a former PIP assessor?

    poppy, I’m actually going to bed in a minute.  I’m going to read through that link fully.  Even if I already have.
    I am indeed. 
    Were you ever told to lie or to make a mountain out of a molehill, like when my girlfriend could pick up a bottle with 400ml of drink I already opened for her, and then put that she unscrewed it herself and lifting the bottle now means she can bathe herself and cook for herself just fine and dandy?
    No, not at all. But we are trained to notice things like that. I once had a lady who ‘couldnt’ spinal flex forward to touch her knees during the physical exam. I also watched her drop her phone on the floor and bend down and pick it up which is evidence that she can indeed bend down. I know it seems devious but often people say they can’t do things due to perceived pain (some even outright lie) but then we witness a complete contradictory movement.

    Young girl tells me she can’t grip knives to cook - then tells me she enjoys doing make up and did her own make up today (wearing finely applied eyeliner which requires good grip and dexterity)

    Woman says she cannot wash her own hair as she can’t lift her shoulders up - then proceedes to put her hair in a ponytail in front of me because she was too hot.

    People do things absentmindedly that disproves their claimed restriction and Im not saying there isn’t a chance your particular assessor may have embellished but often people don’t remember doing simple second nature movements.

    Crohns sucks. Absolutely I agree with that and she certainly should score at least for Activity 5, but in the absence of a diagnosed mental health condition, high level meds and specialist input it will be very difficult to prove the requirement for prompting.
    There was a quote made about PIP by the government. 'PIP is for the really disabled amongst us'
  • haveacigarhaveacigar Member Posts: 16 Courageous
    ilovecats said:
    Yadnad said:
    There was a quote made about PIP by the government. 'PIP is for the really disabled amongst us'
    If only people realised that. 
    @ilovecats
    @Yadnad

    I was quite astonished to read up on some statistics from my own country, Northern Ireland, where back in 2016, there were almost 210,000 people on DLA out of a population of 1.86m...1 in 9 people on DLA, That is a ridiculous amount. Is it any wonder that PIP was introduced to properly award those claimants in most need to get the benefit they deserve and weed out those who see it as some sort of benefit claiming lifestyle choice. I fully agree with that Government statement.
  • GeraldGerald Member Posts: 214 Pioneering
    edited February 2019
    Hi PIPnewbie I have given up on them PIP assessors are always right with my assessment  and I have a stoma so have a colostomy bag for you know what nice word feces to come out of the body which I have for life the PIP assessors put in is report that did not need a aid or appliances for toilet needs or incontinence unaided and I got ( 0) points and I have to go to the tribunal and that is from FEB 2018 so my plan is go to the tribunal and ask is it okay for me to get rid of my colostomy bag and as I have know control of my stoma just hope that it starts to work overtime and if they ask how come you do not have a bag on my answer will be my PIP assessors put in is report that did not need a aid or appliances for toilet needs or incontinence unaided and he knows more than my Doctor or Consultant  
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    ilovecats said:
    Gerald said:
    Hi PIPnewbie I have given up on them PIP assessors are always right with my assessment  and I have a stoma so have a colostomy bag for you know what nice word feces to come out of the body which I have for life the PIP assessors put in is report that did not need a aid or appliances for toilet needs or incontinence unaided and I got ( 0) points and I have to go to the tribunal and that is from FEB 2018 so my plan is go to the tribunal and ask is it okay for me to get rid of my colostomy bag and as I have know control of my stoma just hope that it starts to work overtime and if they ask how come you do not have a bag on my answer will be my PIP assessors put in is report that did not need a aid or appliances for toilet needs or incontinence unaided and he knows more than my Doctor or Consultant  
    I have already told you that you should’ve received 2 points for activity 5 for your colostomy bag. Why bother posting this again? 
    I also advised them on a completely different part of the forum that they should have received those 2 points.
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • PIPnewbiePIPnewbie Member Posts: 261 Pioneering
    ilovecats said:

    No, not at all. But we are trained to notice things like that. I once had a lady who ‘couldnt’ spinal flex forward to touch her knees during the physical exam. I also watched her drop her phone on the floor and bend down and pick it up which is evidence that she can indeed bend down. I know it seems devious but often people say they can’t do things due to perceived pain (some even outright lie) but then we witness a complete contradictory movement.

    Young girl tells me she can’t grip knives to cook - then tells me she enjoys doing make up and did her own make up today (wearing finely applied eyeliner which requires good grip and dexterity)

    Woman says she cannot wash her own hair as she can’t lift her shoulders up - then proceedes to put her hair in a ponytail in front of me because she was too hot.

    People do things absentmindedly that disproves their claimed restriction and Im not saying there isn’t a chance your particular assessor may have embellished but often people don’t remember doing simple second nature movements.

    Crohns sucks. Absolutely I agree with that and she certainly should score at least for Activity 5, but in the absence of a diagnosed mental health condition, high level meds and specialist input it will be very difficult to prove the requirement for prompting.
    I agree with all of that.  If people are lying then they deserve nothing.  

    However, the PIP assessor was the one to outright lie in this instance.

    He said she did not look tired even though she was utterly exhausted and had slept like 30 minutes all night before the appointment, including falling asleep in the waiting room, where I had to wake her up.

    He said she looked well kempt, dressed smartly, etc.  She had her hair as she always does, in a pony, no makeup (she has never worn it in her life a single time), and wore joggers, t-shirt, and hoody, as loose loungewear is mostly what she wears as it's easier on everything; her a stomach ache, her stiff joints, the allodynia from fibromyalgia, and so on.

    She also doesn't just have Crohn's issues, and as above she's since been diagnosed with fibromyalgia by her pain specialist doctor (5 days after the PIP assessment, go figure),  she has diagnosed endometriosis which is more agonising pain in the stomach area, diagnosed Temporomandibular joint disorder and Bruxism (this is where her jaw pops out of place when eating and talking several times throughout the day, and makes clicking sound that makes me shudder).

    She has been to the doctor about depression over the years (since her conditions obviously have ruined her life), but she never medicated as she just cannot stomach more medication on top of weekly Humira injections, daily mercaptopurine, and several other medications.  

    Oh that reminds me, she legitimately is so exhausted and in pain all the time, she genuinely cannot always remember to take the vast amounts of medication, so even though she needs phone reminders and a dosette box, apparently her brain is fine so she doesn't need to use an aid to remember to take medication.
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    You seem to be concentrating on a diagnosis, PIP isn't about a diagnosis. It's how those conditions affect your ability to carry out daily activity based on the PIP descriptors. The diagnosis she had of fibromyalgia after the assessment would have made no difference at all.

    Using an aid or needing assistance/supervision or prompting to take medication could possibly score 1 point.

    Please get some face to face advice for an advice centre near your girlfriend.


    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • PIPnewbiePIPnewbie Member Posts: 261 Pioneering
    You seem to be concentrating on a diagnosis, PIP isn't about a diagnosis. It's how those conditions affect your ability to carry out daily activity based on the PIP descriptors. The diagnosis she had of fibromyalgia after the assessment would have made no difference at all.

    Using an aid or needing assistance/supervision or prompting to take medication could possibly score 1 point.

    Please get some face to face advice for an advice centre near your girlfriend.



    Hi Poppy,

    We are about to fill in the form as I am on a visit.  We have until Thursday for it to arrive, but we should be fine.

    Anyway, can the length of PIP award be something appealed against as well as the points?

    We are going to continue this fight no matter what, and in future will heed the advice to seek face to face expertise.
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    edited February 2019
    Yes the length of award can be appealed too. You will need to give reasons why you think she should have been given a longer award and back it up with evidence. Please be aware that any new decision made at her review will overrule the Tribunal decision, if that comes after the review and with the waiting times for Tribunals i'm guessing it will.
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • PIPnewbiePIPnewbie Member Posts: 261 Pioneering
    Yes the length of award can be appealed too. You will need to give reasons why you think she should have been given a longer award and back it up with evidence. Please be aware that any new decision made at her review will overrule the Tribunal decision, if that comes after the review and with the waiting times for Tribunals i'm guessing it will.
    So does that mean all the potentially missing money from the first year of PIP will be gone forever, or will the Tribunal decision affect everything before the review? 

    This kinda makes Tribunals seem pointless.
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    If the Tribunal goes in her favour then she'll be back dated the money to the start of her PIP award up until the date of the new decision.
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • PIPnewbiePIPnewbie Member Posts: 261 Pioneering
    If the Tribunal goes in her favour then she'll be back dated the money to the start of her PIP award up until the date of the new decision.
    Ohhh I guessed so, as it seemed rather pointless otherwise.

    I wanted to ask, what happens at the review? If hypothetically they take PIP from her, will that decision take place from when her PIP ends in June 2020, or will it be effective immediately from the date of the review?
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    If the worst happens at her review her PIP will stop 4 weeks after the decision is made. If it goes in her favour then she'll have a new award date.
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • PIPnewbiePIPnewbie Member Posts: 261 Pioneering
    If the worst happens at her review her PIP will stop 4 weeks after the decision is made. If it goes in her favour then she'll have a new award date.
    Hmm how can it be a 2 year award then? If it has the potential to stop well before then?

    She tried to rush to the toilet last night when getting out of bed, but because of the fibromyalgia her legs just weren't awake enough, and she stumbled and kicked a set of drawers, breaking her toe.  Wondering if we can use this latest medical appointment (minor injuries visit) as evidence.
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    Reviews take place 1 year before the award is due to end. Any decision on the review will overrule the current award. If the review is successful then she will have a new award date.

    No, the Tribunal can only take into consideration what her condition was like at the time the decision was made. As that accident happened after the decision then she won't be able to use it.
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • PIPnewbiePIPnewbie Member Posts: 261 Pioneering
    Reviews take place 1 year before the award is due to end. Any decision on the review will overrule the current award. If the review is successful then she will have a new award date.

    No, the Tribunal can only take into consideration what her condition was like at the time the decision was made. As that accident happened after the decision then she won't be able to use it.
    No, what I mean is can it be evidence to prove how her conditions affect her which she outlined at the time of applying for PIP?
  • Kas854Kas854 Member Posts: 13 Connected
    edited February 2019
    I've cancer, Chrons disease (Severe), spinal damage, arthritis, fibromyalgia, blackout syndrome. I still work, that's more for my own mental state even if it is from home. I get enhanced on both for PIP.

    Adding the broken toe into your girlfriend's form won't even be taken into consideration. They'll see that as a poly. No offence.

    However if she is prone to accidental falls that lead to injury you can add it. You need to report it to your GP first for it to even hold any sway in a claim. Should you decide to add it. Typical "Evidence" hunting they require.

    PIP is based on how illnesses effect your daily life, not on the diagnosis itself. 

    As Poppy has already said seek guidance from your local CAB as they can help you with the form and they also will accompany you to a tribunal in some cases. 
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    PIPnewbie said:
    Reviews take place 1 year before the award is due to end. Any decision on the review will overrule the current award. If the review is successful then she will have a new award date.

    No, the Tribunal can only take into consideration what her condition was like at the time the decision was made. As that accident happened after the decision then she won't be able to use it.
    No, what I mean is can it be evidence to prove how her conditions affect her which she outlined at the time of applying for PIP?
    No because the accident happened after the decision was made.
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    CAB very rarely represent at a Tribunal now because of lack of funding. Welfare rights or a law centre is the best place to start. Advice was given many weeks ago to get expert face to face advice, which is really important especially if you don't understand the descriptors.
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • PIPnewbiePIPnewbie Member Posts: 261 Pioneering
    Kas854 said:
    I've cancer, Chrons disease (Severe), spinal damage, arthritis, fibromyalgia, blackout syndrome. I still work, that's more for my own mental state even if it is from home. I get enhanced on both for PIP.

    Adding the broken toe into your girlfriend's form won't even be taken into consideration. They'll see that as a poly. No offence.

    However if she is prone to accidental falls that lead to injury you can add it. You need to report it to your GP first for it to even hold any sway in a claim. Should you decide to add it. Typical "Evidence" hunting they require.

    PIP is based on how illnesses effect your daily life, not on the diagnosis itself. 

    As Poppy has already said seek guidance from your local CAB as they can help you with the form and they also will accompany you to a tribunal in some cases. 
    Hi Kas,

    I'm very sorry to hear that.  I wish you well in your fight.

    What sort of work do you do from home?

    My girlfriend would love to do something, but she knows doing conventional work is impossible.  She gets so bored, upset, and depressed, especially at her birthdays when another year has gone by and she hasn't "done anything with her life".
  • Kas854Kas854 Member Posts: 13 Connected
    edited February 2019
    PIPnewbie said:
    Hi Kas,

    I'm very sorry to hear that.  I wish you well in your fight.

    What sort of work do you do from home?

    My girlfriend would love to do something, but she knows doing conventional work is impossible.  She gets so bored, upset, and depressed, especially at her birthdays when another year has gone by and she hasn't "done anything with her life".
    I used to be medical engineer in which I designed artificial limbs for people who had lost theirs through accidents etc. I would still do design work but unfortunately I haven't the physical strength to build the finished product anymore.

    I'm very fortunate my boyfriend is supportive but definitely not easy being in the position where your partner has to help out. I'm sure your girlfriend feels the same way.

    Hard not to worry but no worry in this world is worth getting in a state about. Many wee work at home jobs. Sounds silly but what about something she is interested in? Animals? Crafting? Teaching? She could turn her passion into a business.

    Thank you for your kind thoughts. I'm still talking so I'm good in my book :)
  • PIPnewbiePIPnewbie Member Posts: 261 Pioneering
    Do you mind if I ask on what basis they gave you enhanced for both?  How much did Crohn's, arthritis, and fibromyalgia (what my girlfriend has) play a part?

    And she loves animals. She wanted to be a dog groomer and do it at home, but she mostly doesn't have the energy to brush her own dog. I've lived 33 years and I've never seen a more "tired" person who sleeps so much. When we eventually live together I could help her out more. Right now she lives with her grandparents as she has for years, but they're too old to do more than her care.

    But definitely keep fighting!! Like I say to my girlfriend, I read a lot about upcoming technological and medical breakthroughs. In the next 10-20 years, we'll advance more than we did in the past 1,000 years!
  • Kas854Kas854 Member Posts: 13 Connected
    edited February 2019
    Not based on the actual diagnosis. Someone could be on their death bed and as long as they are up and about and seeing to be not struggling. PIP won't be awarded. Yet that person is probably struggling more than most that claim for the benefit.

    Depends how it affects your girlfriend. For example: Can she walk no more than a few feet without being in pain? Is getting upstairs a problem? Is cooking for herself a problem? Example: Can't stand long enough to cook a basic meal. Things of that nature that warrant the criteria for PIP.

    As said you could be on deaths door, diagnosis isn't important it's how you as a person struggle to function with the illnesses you have.
  • Sam_ScopeSam_Scope Member Posts: 7,732 Disability Gamechanger
    Hi @PIPnewbie
    Have you been in touch with Crohns and Colitis UK? They have a lot of information and support maybe you dont need them for the PIP issue but it might help your partner to speak to others in a similar situation?
    I have ulcerative colitis and a permanent ostomy bag so I certainly sympathise with what she is going through, and it seems like you are a wonderful support for her.  
    I volunteer with my local Crohns and Colitis UK group so it might be worth you looking to see if you have one that covers your area? We run coffee mornings and events where people who have the conditions and their partners and families can attend to chat and support one another.
    Scope
    Senior online community officer
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    You can't compare 2 people when it comes to PIP because it's not awarded based on a diagnosis. It's how those conditions affect your ability to carry out daily activity based on the PIP descriptors.

    I really do advise you to get further advice and support with the Tribunal process. I know she's requesting the Tribunal but the wait could be as long as a year and it's never too late to get help, advice and support.
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • PIPnewbiePIPnewbie Member Posts: 261 Pioneering
    I think by this point I get that it's not the diagnoses, but like I said, her interviewer noticed her lifting the lid of a squash bottle I unscrewed for her, and rested on the tip of the bottle, and it had like a cup full of squash in it, and he used that to claim that she was capable of everything.
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    I realise all of that is very frustrating but you need to concentrate on the reasons why the descriptors apply to her because that's what the Tribunal will be interested in, rather than what was said in the report.
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • PIPnewbiePIPnewbie Member Posts: 261 Pioneering
    Yeah I know and we've written that in the form and sent it to Tribunal.  Now we wait...
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