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Pip decision

barry50barry50 Member Posts: 13 Listener
Hi some of the people ive chatted to on here since losing my pip benefit in december just giving an up date ive suffered depression but thanks for the kind words from members on this site i went to seek help from my doctor and have a nice counsellor who helps me .
Today i recieved word from pip through mandatory decision i was not awarded care componant but was given enhanced motability.
Just let you know what i suffer from non epileptic attack disorder. Drop in blood sugar . impingment in shoulders . depression.
I got 2points for to cook by microwave and 2points for supervision for a bath.
12 points as need someone around me when i go out if anyone knows if i should have had more points please can you let me know

Replies

  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    Hi,

    I'm afraid no one on an internet forum can tell you if you should have scored more points. PIP isnt about a diagnosis, it's how those conditions affect your ability to carry out daily activities based on the PIP descriptors. You'll need to look at the descriptors to see where you can score those extra points. If you can't score those extra points needed for the daily living award then there's no point taking it to Tribunal.

    I'd advise you to get face to face advice from an advice centre near you.
    Proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice I have given to members here on the community.
  • barry50barry50 Member Posts: 13 Listener
    Thank you for your reply 
  • keirakeira Member Posts: 136 Courageous
    @ilovecats As I'm sure you're aware some people with severe depression and anxiety can't engage with specialists and struggle to even see their GP. In addition prescribed medication doesn't make much difference to them or can increase suicidal ideation (despite trying different types) so they no longer take these. Therefore, in view of your previous comments would they not "score" for the relevant activities? 
  • barry50barry50 Member Posts: 13 Listener
    My depression was caused because of pip when the dwp stopped it in december i was suicidal under the gp now see a counsellor every week im on medication also now under the mental health for a while no body should have to be put under the pressure from dwp never mind life goes on still have a great counsellor be seeing him for long time until he thinks im ready to cope on my own .
    Thanks you guys for getting back to me .
  • YadnadYadnad Posts: 2,856 Member
    ilovecats said:
    keira said:
    @ilovecats As I'm sure you're aware some people with severe depression and anxiety can't engage with specialists and struggle to even see their GP. In addition prescribed medication doesn't make much difference to them or can increase suicidal ideation (despite trying different types) so they no longer take these. Therefore, in view of your previous comments would they not "score" for the relevant activities? 
    It is unlikely they would score. Even if they feel lowest of the low, if they are managing without medication and input, even if they feel suicidal then in the absence of psychiatric evidence they most likely won’t score.

    I’m not saying it is right or that they aren’t suffering, I myself have been medicated for mental issues which I didn’t find particularly beneficial in the past so I can sympathise. 

    There has to be a line at which feeling depressed and a ‘bit unmotivated’ turns into overwhelming psychological distress. 
    I am personally aware of two PIP claims and awards for what you are discussing. Both continue to get their repeat prescriptions filled out and dispensed but never take the medication. In one case the level of the monthly medication reaches over 4 pages in length, anti depressants at the maximum dosage allowed, a considerable quantity of opoids and other high grade pain relief medication etc etc. - they are keeping up charade of needing this medication. Additionally both  go through the motions of seeing counsellors, pain clinic etc etc. to 'window dress' their claims. The only reason I know of the scale of that one is that I was asked in a professional capacity if I knew how he could get rid of the 'stuff' as he had bags of unused drugs in the house.

    It's not right and if I know of two cases I really do wonder how many there are in the rest of the UK playing the system.


  • barry50barry50 Member Posts: 13 Listener
    If it wasnt for people on this site giving me advice in december i probably might not be here today the advice gave me strength to fight dwp and gave me faith to go to my gps and get help i needed once again thanks to everyone.
  • keirakeira Member Posts: 136 Courageous
    edited February 2019
    @ilovecats Thank you for your reply. What happens if they are not managing and all types of specialist input and medication has been exhausted? And I'm talking about someone with overwhelming psychological distress.
  • YadnadYadnad Posts: 2,856 Member
    edited February 2019
    ilovecats said:

    :



    The amount of people that have sat in front of me claiming various restrictions, stated they take XYZ high dose opiate pain relief, yet they are functioning just fine is beyond belief. I used to administer these drugs, I know what they can do and how they affect people so its actually insulting when people try to pull the wool over my eyes.

    And that is why people are sent to face to face assessment. That is also why the assessors use informal observations above the functional history because they carry for evidential weight. 

    Similarly, I have seen people play down their illnesses due to embarrassment or stoicism and actually I could see they were really struggling and were too prideful to admit it. Those are the cases I liked doing because I felt I was making sure people who needed  PIP really got it and for a good length of time. 

    Not all assessors are heartless cretins :-)
    Thanks for those comments and I am pleased, as a taxpayer, to read that during your time as an assessor that you had the public purse in the forefront of your thoughts when dealing with those types of people. 
    For some, however, their mannerisms and abilities will let them down. 
    Of the large quantity of different drugs that I personally take, the following four are supposed to give rise to some pretty obvious side effects. Oramorph 600ml a month as and when needed, Sertraline 200mg a day , 90mg MST twice a day and 125mg Pregabalin twice a day. 

    However I am still able to reasonably have a normal life without those side effects. I do admit to having a strong constitution and an enormous amount of will power which means that I fight my issues daily not wanting to give in to them  and any medication does not appear to be a problem.

    So whilst claimants like myself would appear to be normal in many respects certainly when talking to people , what is not apparent are the times when in privacy I can drop the persona and just feel like today has been another battle won and tomorrow is another day.

    The level of medication and diagnosis is not in doubt at all - there is plenty of evidence to support the issues. The problem is therefore that the person you would see does not match what you would expect to see given the medication and the conditions/side effects/symptoms.


     
  • djbantiquesdjbantiques Member Posts: 43 Connected
    A nurse assessor who does not know the difference between Osteo and Rheumatoid arthritis and which medication is used for which is to my mind incompetent.
  • YadnadYadnad Posts: 2,856 Member
    A nurse assessor who does not know the difference between Osteo and Rheumatoid arthritis and which medication is used for which is to my mind incompetent.
    Is that particularly important when assessing whether the claimant has some difficulties with pain and moving around?
    I have no idea which type my wife has - it's just arthritis to me but given that I know that it causes her difficulties for which she has the day and night award of Attendance Allowance it doesn't matter.
  • djbantiquesdjbantiques Member Posts: 43 Connected
    Yadnad said:
    A nurse assessor who does not know the difference between Osteo and Rheumatoid arthritis and which medication is used for which is to my mind incompetent.
    Is that particularly important when assessing whether the claimant has some difficulties with pain and moving around?
    I have no idea which type my wife has - it's just arthritis to me but given that I know that it causes her difficulties for which she has the day and night award of Attendance Allowance it doesn't matter.
    It shows a lack of knowledge and incompetence for a medical professional which brings into disrepute all their other findings.

  • YadnadYadnad Posts: 2,856 Member
    edited February 2019



    It shows a lack of knowledge and incompetence for a medical professional which brings into disrepute all their other findings.

    I don't see how? Would I expect a competent medical professional (assessor) to understand the workings of the mind and associated psychiatric conditions? Would I expect them even  to have a good insight into Chronic Pancreatitis, it's symptoms, collaterals, peusdocyst, thrombotic splenic vein etc when they have never come across a case before? No is that answer. 

    Besides which PIP is not awarded because of a name put to a disease or condition.
  • djbantiquesdjbantiques Member Posts: 43 Connected
    Yadnad said:



    It shows a lack of knowledge and incompetence for a medical professional which brings into disrepute all their other findings.

    I don't see how? Would I expect a competent medical professional (assessor) to understand the workings of the mind and associated psychiatric conditions? Would I expect them even  to have a good insight into Chronic Pancreatitis, it's symptoms, collaterals, peusdocyst, thrombotic splenic vein etc when they have never come across a case before? No is that answer. 

    Besides which PIP is not awarded because of a name put to a disease or condition.
    So if your wife was in hospital, God forbid, for another complaint and the nurse was issuing her with the wrong medication for her arthritis because she didn't know the difference between the various types of arthritis you wouldn't call that incompetence ?
  • YadnadYadnad Posts: 2,856 Member
    Yadnad said:



    It shows a lack of knowledge and incompetence for a medical professional which brings into disrepute all their other findings.

    I don't see how? Would I expect a competent medical professional (assessor) to understand the workings of the mind and associated psychiatric conditions? Would I expect them even  to have a good insight into Chronic Pancreatitis, it's symptoms, collaterals, peusdocyst, thrombotic splenic vein etc when they have never come across a case before? No is that answer. 

    Besides which PIP is not awarded because of a name put to a disease or condition.
    So if your wife was in hospital, God forbid, for another complaint and the nurse was issuing her with the wrong medication for her arthritis because she didn't know the difference between the various types of arthritis you wouldn't call that incompetence ?
    It would not be a nurse that would be expected to diagnose her would it? The nurse would be following instructions from someone who had carried out the diagnosis and had determined the treatment , probably a consultant.
  • djbantiquesdjbantiques Member Posts: 43 Connected

    It would not be a nurse that would be expected to diagnose her would it? The nurse would be following instructions from someone who had carried out the diagnosis and had determined the treatment , probably a consultant.
    Agree. But a nurse assessors brief observations is taken to be more relevant than a consultant / specialists report by the DWP .
  • YadnadYadnad Posts: 2,856 Member

    It would not be a nurse that would be expected to diagnose her would it? The nurse would be following instructions from someone who had carried out the diagnosis and had determined the treatment , probably a consultant.
    Agree. But a nurse assessors brief observations is taken to be more relevant than a consultant / specialists report by the DWP .
    You do like to go round and round in circles.
    Yes they are more relevant.
    None of my consultants have the faintest of a clue as to how I live my life - it has nothing to do with them - in fact it is of no concern to my GP either. So how can they give an opinion?
    An assessor is more qualified to assess function.

  • djbantiquesdjbantiques Member Posts: 43 Connected
    Yadnad said:

    It would not be a nurse that would be expected to diagnose her would it? The nurse would be following instructions from someone who had carried out the diagnosis and had determined the treatment , probably a consultant.
    Agree. But a nurse assessors brief observations is taken to be more relevant than a consultant / specialists report by the DWP .
    You do like to go round and round in circles.
    Yes they are more relevant.
    None of my consultants have the faintest of a clue as to how I live my life - it has nothing to do with them - in fact it is of no concern to my GP either. So how can they give an opinion?
    An assessor is more qualified to assess function.

    Dan day alias Yadnad talking rubbish again.
    Just remember, all is not as it seems.
  • djbantiquesdjbantiques Member Posts: 43 Connected
  • YadnadYadnad Posts: 2,856 Member
    edited February 2019
    Yadnad said:

    It would not be a nurse that would be expected to diagnose her would it? The nurse would be following instructions from someone who had carried out the diagnosis and had determined the treatment , probably a consultant.
    Agree. But a nurse assessors brief observations is taken to be more relevant than a consultant / specialists report by the DWP .
    You do like to go round and round in circles.
    Yes they are more relevant.
    None of my consultants have the faintest of a clue as to how I live my life - it has nothing to do with them - in fact it is of no concern to my GP either. So how can they give an opinion?
    An assessor is more qualified to assess function.

    Dan day alias Yadnad talking rubbish again.
    Just remember, all is not as it seems.
    Are you suggesting that what I have said is rubbish? If so would you like to enlighten all of us as to which part is rubbish?
    As for your final comment I have no idea to what you refer - the last time I saw something similar was a guy walking around the city with a sandwich board proclaiming that the end is nigh - prepare to meet your maker.
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  • keirakeira Member Posts: 136 Courageous
    keira said:
    @ilovecats Thank you for your reply. What happens if they are not managing and all types of specialist input and medication has been exhausted? And I'm talking about someone with overwhelming psychological distress.

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