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Pip asseror false report

tinac
tinac Member Posts: 4 Listener
edited March 2019 in PIP, DLA, and AA
If an assessor has lied on your form, you can report them to relevant body , nurses is NMC Doctors is GMC My assessor said nothing wrong with me , I have multiple medical problems which she had consultants letters for . She diagnosed me as nothing wrong I have now lost pip totally after being on full pip . So I informed the NMC my nurse was dangerous as an assessor and had committed fraud on my assessment. Start reporting them, it’s another way to stop all this lies on our health being better than it is

Comments

  • tinac
    tinac Member Posts: 4 Listener
    edited March 2019
    i have just reported the nurse who did my pip assessor to NMC and asked her to be struck off, as her assessment was full of lies . 
    We need to start reporting these assessors to the relevant bodies , for doctors it’s GMC  , let them know how it feels to lose the profession they studied for for years ,all for the sake of lies they put on our disability assessments , 
    they will be investigated if you make a complaint, 
    tinac
  • Antonia_Alumni
    Antonia_Alumni Scope alumni Posts: 1,781 Pioneering
    edited March 2019
    Hi @tinac welcome to the community and thank you for sharing this with us. I am sorry to hear about this, please keep us updated.
  • wildlife
    wildlife Member Posts: 1,308 Pioneering
    @tinac I agree with reporting them but I reported my assessor who was a Paramedic (so she said) to her governing body HCPC and they wouldn't investigate apart from saying she was on their register and had the necessary qualifications. Their reason for rejecting my complaint about her as a Paramedic was because there is a complaint's  procedure for assessors. However they should take on these investigations because provided they are working in a medically related capacity which they are they still should not break their code of conduct. You can also contact the Information Commissioner's Office (ICO). They regulate the Data Protection Act which is contravened every time an assessor writes incorrect data (facts) about you. If enough people contact ICE they will eventually investigate the company involved whichever they get the most complaints about. 
  • wildlife
    wildlife Member Posts: 1,308 Pioneering
    @ilovecats, I get what you say completely but I had a very long email communication with HCPC yes they tried to deny any responsibility for my assessor's conduct but I kept replying and when they realized I wasn't going to stop till I had answers they confirmed in writing that a job history I sent them from Linkedin making no mention of her being a paramedic did belong to my assessor. My MP contacted ATOS on my behalf and they ignored his communication. I know this wasn't about her conduct but nevertheless worth doing. Apart from the outcome of letting anyone know how you feel it eases the anger to be actively doing something. I would say though that anyone making a complaint should not include "he/she said, I said" at all. They should focus on the medical claims that can be proved wrong with official medical evidence. E.g. The client does not have Parkinson's when specialist medical evidence proves they do. For ICO claimants can also include any other personal data that can be proved wrong. If you read the Data Protection Act it clearly says Data collected and used should be accurate.     I don't know how you can say quote: "The bodies are there to protect the public from unsafe working practices that endanger lives and to ensure the registered title is not brought into legal or moral disrepute" making out that dishonest assessors don't cause this. Their code of practice applies to any work of a medical nature not just their profession before they became an assessor. The Informal Observations alone bring a person into disrepute, my son was described as "Unkempt", fortunately he will never see that comment. I'm sure others could come up with degrading personal comments that they had on their reports and describe how they felt about it. No where else in life would these be tolerated or unable to be challenged. As an x assessor you will be seen as protecting all assessor's by discouraging people from reporting them to other bodies outside the complaints procedure that clearly does not work. The anger that is felt that cannot be directed where the blame truly lies is aimed at you which isn't fair but it is understandable. Until the benefit assessments are done in a fair and proper manner reporting the obvious errors. incorrect statements, unprofessional behaviour call it what you will should be reported to their governing bodies no matter how many rejection letters are sent out. 
  • wildlife
    wildlife Member Posts: 1,308 Pioneering
    I appreciate all you have said and accept most of it. However I'm sure other evidence that doesn't cause offence could be used to support whether someone needed prompting. I don't get the connection between physical appearance and mental health. I have complex PTSD, and memory loss and my hubby prompts me all the time but I am not unkempt. Carers/family members help a disabled person to wash, change their clothes etc. The comments about appearance have been noted by claimants who worn others not to go "dressed up" or even how they usually dress. If these derogatory comments were scrapped assessors would meet the person as they really are. Follow that up with an honest assessment and there you have the system working as it should. I base by thoughts about these comments on what would be acceptable to the person being assessed in any other meet and greet situation. They would certainly not be said or written. Personal appearance does not have any bearing on a person's disability and if assessors think it does they have a blinkered view due to being "told" that it does during their training. Where is the respect for another human being, disabled or not! 
            IMHO the IO's should be scrapped, (this is where my assessor made up her story about the water bottle), medical evidence should take priority and be accepted with no argument and more paper based assessments should be done for people already on benefit to save them the stress they have to go through knowing they are being judged from the moment they arrive at the assessment centre. 
  • susan48
    susan48 Member Posts: 2,222 Disability Gamechanger
    Hi 
    sorry if this isn’t relevant to the thread but what if the assessor doesn’t know what a condition is  or how it affects a person!
    i have FND which is not commonly known about would the assessor research the condition?

    @ilovecats, thank you for giving another perspective to us all.
  • poppy123456
    poppy123456 Member Posts: 23,801 Disability Gamechanger
    It's the claimants responsibility to explain how their conditions affect them against the PIP descriptors. All conditions affect people differently. A HCP doesn't need to have specific knowledge about any condition.
  • susan48
    susan48 Member Posts: 2,222 Disability Gamechanger
    @poppy123456, I understand that but how can anyone fairly judge a person if they don’t fully understand a condition?

    just doesn’t seem right
  • poppy123456
    poppy123456 Member Posts: 23,801 Disability Gamechanger
    That's why filling out the form with as much detail as possible is the best way because if you don't tell them exactly how your conditions affect you how can you be assessed correctly. Then when you attend the face to face assessment you need to justify what you've written in the form.

    If you have 2 people with the same condition you can almost guarantee that they'll both be affected differently.
  • tinac
    tinac Member Posts: 4 Listener
    When consultant letters and physchiatrist confirming all conditions , that she supposedly read while making me wait for 40 minutes , 120 mins questioning me, and then her assessment is a few lines long , it was January and she put air con in the room on coldest setting , I puke from pain when I get home as I’m allergic to all pain killers , anti inflammatory drugs
    i have fibromyalgia, diabetic, kyphosis, nerve damage in both feet , bpd , severe anxiety , daily vomiting, migraines , virtigo , tinnitus , partially deaf, Misophonia, hypacusis , breathing problems , hernia that pops out if I bend forward, hernia ,GERD  10 disc in my spine that is collapsing , arthritis in spine neck hands hips , house bound , all confined by consultants, so to have pip removed totally . From this assessor diagnosis I have nothing wrong with me . So yes she been reported 
    for making the diagnosis I have nothing wrong with me 

  • tinac
    tinac Member Posts: 4 Listener
    Your very protective of theses assessors  , are you one ? 
    She could see I was in pain exhausted have a permanent limp, turn air con on coldestes setting in winter at a Chatham docs , she said she examend me . She didn’t ?she  Kept stopping me every time I was asking my witness to confirm stuff as I could not remember , she said I have no congenative problems , 2 months before a court doctor confirms I have 10% memory loss . She also wrote on her form the assessment took 45 miniutes , lie she had me in there 120 minutes , so as a supposed nurse , she is dangerous to be doing any job that involves people’s health and I won’t stopped until she is sacked , she said I drive an automatic  car ? I don’t , said I don’t take pain medication , left of the allergic reactions and vomiting and skin burns that scared me which she was fully informed on , I can carry on all day with this information she didn’t put in there what I told her she squeezed down to a few lines , 
  • poppy123456
    poppy123456 Member Posts: 23,801 Disability Gamechanger
    @ilovecats is a former assessor and has never hidden that from anyone here on scope. He/she has always been extremely helpful to everyone and gives fantastic advice. I've certainly learnt a lot from them posting and my knowledge was good before they started posting here. I certainly hope that they will continue to give the advice they do.

    I know the lies and untruths they tell in these reports is hurtful but when requesting the MR and Tribunal you should concentrate on where you think you should score those points and your reasons why, rather than concentrate on the lies. DWP and the Tribunal won't be interested in any of those. They will only be interested in your functional ability. You should add 2-3 examples of what happened the last time you attempted that activity for each descriptor that applies.

    Once the MR is done then you can complain to the health assessment providers about the report.
  • wildlife
    wildlife Member Posts: 1,308 Pioneering
    @tinac I know how you feel or at least how I felt when I read my report. To say assessors such as you had don't cause any harm is wrong. I had 5 Occular Migraines in a week after reading my report. These are stress related and never before had that happened to me. 8 month later when complaints were being rejected I suffered a 7 hour panic attack and ended up at A & E crying out for help.They aren't aware of the harm they cause to people who are already struggling to cope with illness and disability. 
    @ilovecats Again I get what you are saying but there is a big difference in the harm caused and lack of respect shown by a written negative personal comment about a person's appearance and a comment regarding their functional ability, bending reaching etc is fine. The latter is all that is needed to assess the amount of help a person needs.This is bearing in mind the claimant will be reading these comments. My assessor wrote "she didn't look tired". How on earth can another person know how tired someone feels. The assessor's opinion means nothing and opens the way for false reporting. Reports should be based only on facts using medical evidence, other relevant evidence and correctly recorded statements about and results of functional and mental ability. 

  • madquasimodo
    madquasimodo Member Posts: 127 Courageous
    Very interest thread, just had the same problem, and I have brought this up before, we need some effective way to complain and put things right.
    My partner has an assessment for F2F, it was a nurse, she is listed as serving in the forces (probably where the skill requirement comes from) she advertises as a fitness instructor and physio, the report said she watched us in the car park, my partner walked unsteady and used a stroller and veered to the left, stumbled and needed support, HP own description. In some locations they do watch you arrive.
    That changed in the mobility as "Can stand and walk unaided 200m" 

    There is a lengthy report full of ROM values (range of motion) this report I did some checking on and SWMBO is 64 and cannot manage some of the exercises but scored as a 20-30 year old, this is strange because she was seated and only moved her arms, no angle readings were taken a goniometer was not used.

    So not the end of the world, BUT she has now lost mobility and enhanced PIP, even though the assessors say we don't make the award, their information is what the DM uses to set an award, the DM will plead (and has done in phone MR) they don't do anything but use the report to base the award on, so both trying to avoid blame. 

    I have re-read the report and checked the PIP2and can see some changes, a doctor awarded more points in one section than we got at F2F but the assessor trumps the doctor,  PIP is poorly implemented if you go for ESA for some conditions they "Have" to use a doctor, with PIP anyone can do it as "They are trained in assessing how your disability effects you" 
  • madquasimodo
    madquasimodo Member Posts: 127 Courageous
    edited March 2019
    I have another question has anyone had success with a complaint against a assessor, I spoke to the DWP trying to explain there were some problems with the HP report and I would be waiting for a reply, I have no idea if they will take the complaint seriously or just fob it off, DWP had no interest in any delay in receiving and then passing on any outcome, their view was HP report done , award made, MR requested, paperwork received, decision made. 
    I did ask for further time to see the outcome of the complaint, but they are not interested, I know by the time the Tribunal come around I should have an answer, but has anyone had an outcome they would like to share?

    I would add MR and tribunals have zero interest in lies and false reporting, they are pretty much luck of the draw, I was nearly thrown out from one for speaking, I was reporting errors such as the original poster, however the doctor took over and asked specific questions which resulted in the tribunal awarding the correct points.
    The people who offer help on here sometimes seem to side with the assessors BUT they have a lot of knowledge and look at the question from a different perspective, most of us don't quiet get the answer we want, but PIP is complex and has too many variables its not possible to apply it to everyone, but some thanks for those who take the time to respond on this forum.
  • poppy123456
    poppy123456 Member Posts: 23,801 Disability Gamechanger
    DWP aren't interested in any lies told in the reports. They don't write the reports, the HCPs write them. If you have a complaint then this should be sent to the health assessment providers. As far as i know very little happens with any of the complaints.

    It's not about siding with the assessors, it's about understanding what the descriptors mean. You can have a disability but not qualify for PIP. If you don't meet the descriptors you won't score the points for an award.


  • madquasimodo
    madquasimodo Member Posts: 127 Courageous
    If you took the time to read my post you would see I have complained to the Health assessment provider, as the report is not correct, by her own words she comments my other half could not walk un-aided from the car, used a walking frame, and veered to the left, however under Moving around she was placed in "can walk un-aided 200m" while you and ilovecats are correct that no one wants to listen about errors or lies, you would see I notified the DWP I would not have an answer within their deadline (you can ask for an extension)  
    If you have damage to your Vestibular Balance nerve and cannot walk or balance (all tests and experts reports to hand) and by your own admission the person cannot walk un-aided, even you should find it unusual to state later they can walk fine.
    This type of error is repeated time and time again as seem in this forum, many people find it hard to recognise their selves in the reports given.

    ilovecats has responded to my question with an answer, however when we attended a Tribunal the doctor asked all the questions and marked different, I would add the condition is still the same now the nerve damage has not improved. This shows as we all know its down to the person on the day how they respond, some you win some you don't.
    It should never be like that it should make no difference who assesses you the result should be the same, I can only speak from our experience, PIP has been a nightmare, the same cannot be said of ESA the disability analyst marked the same as the Tribunal and he fully understood vestibular effect and problems.      
  • poppy123456
    poppy123456 Member Posts: 23,801 Disability Gamechanger
    Thanks but i did read what you said about complaining to the health assessment providers. I was just adding that DWP won't be interested in any complaints about reports.

    Although very little happens with these complaints, it's always worth complaining because you never know, one day something maybe done. Good luck.

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