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So how do explain when it seems we are guilty until proven innocent?

madmariemadmarie Member Posts: 7 Listener
edited March 2019 in PIP, DLA and AA
I went to a tribunal three years ago and it was so distressing after I wouldn't go to work or leave my house for 17 months after I was so shaken .i have a lifetime condition and it  will never improve. I spend my whole days in agony but try to stay positive. 
I have received a letter for another medical where the last time again was totally disturbing to read all these things about me which were not true I am such an anxious person I have not slept in days . As I have suffered with anxiety all my life I cannot cope with this situation. 
I wish I hadn't said my mobility is worse but it has and I am trying to accept it myself. So how do explain when it seems we are guilty until proven innocent. 

Replies

  • madmariemadmarie Member Posts: 7 Listener
  • thespicemanthespiceman Member Posts: 6,408 Disability Gamechanger
    Hello @madmarie   Pleased to meet you welcome.

    Thank you for joining and sharing.  Sorry to hear what has happened.

    I am one of the team of community champions who guide, advise and help new members who join the forum.

    Please can I ask are you going to appeal the decision.  There is on our website lots of information and advice on appeals.

    I have anxiety myself and it is a difficult time I know having been through the assessments many times.  I have a life long disability as well. The mental condition is the same.

    Are you receiving any support for your anxiety?  Something to consider.

    I used this mental health charity last time.

    https://www.richmondfellowship.org.uk.

    Could be useful to access support from them if having some problems.

    Get floating support or an outreach worker. Also benefit and welfare support. They do understand.

    Please have a look around our website.  Please ask anything some one will know. We are friendly.

    Please take care.

    @thespiceman
    Community Champion
    SCOPE Volunteer Award Engaging Communities 2019
    Mental Health advice, guidance and information to all members
    Nutrition, Diet, Wellbeing, Addiction.
    Recipes
  • Adrian_ScopeAdrian_Scope Testing team Posts: 7,997

    Scope community team

    Hi @madmarie, welcome to the community! Glad to have you with us. How are you feeling today? 
    A lot of people in our community have faced PIP appeals and tribunals themselves and might be able to relate in some way to your experience. @thespiceman has some great advice above, but if there's anything we can help with, or if you just fancy a chat, please don't hesitate. You are not alone.
    Senior Community Partner
    Scope
  • madquasimodomadquasimodo Member Posts: 130 Courageous
    There are some excellent people on here who can help you when filling in your form, they can offer some good advice, the whole process if hard even if your in relatively good, add some mental health issues and it can seem overwhelming, I think you need some help when asking for a Mandatory Reconsideration or telling them your condition has got worse. 
    I will add https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/personal-independence-payment-assessment-guide-for-assessment-providers/pip-assessment-guide-part-2-the-assessment-criteria 

    It helps to read it a few times and check any sections where you were marked lower than you thought.
  • horishoris Posts: 23 Member
    Easy face facts the stark reality you will have a F2f like me and the rest of use when it is due . Know other way of saying it .This is the time we live in this is the system, these days you will have a better chance of winning the national lottery than not winning a no f2f.
  • madmariemadmarie Member Posts: 7 Listener
    After getting to the appointment which I had to accompanied by my probably one of the few I see through suffering with my anxiety, I was a total mess , we arrived and then they hadn't turned up. I was an absolute mess to have been taken 42 miles away right out of my comfort zone. There excuse was if you had answered your phone ( forgetting I have a disability and along with that severe anxiety. So I will not answer my phone to a number I don't know ffs ) 
    it was tough in there eyes and I was then given another appointment not 2 miles away , 
    is this a test !!! . 

    The appointment was then rescheduled and I went Friday. It lasted over two hours. 
    The lady was nice but I suppose she had to be. 
    She was passionate it seemed to her response at the end was I need to take this further if I don't get this . But at what degree until I end my life over justifying my health. It was horrible. And yet another 8 weeks to wait for a letter from them .
    My sycologist from the pain management is just retiring. 
    My life is so hard . Is there any organisation that can help with my disability and help organisations available please. 
  • twonkertwonker Posts: 617 Member
    horis said:
    Easy face facts the stark reality you will have a F2f like me and the rest of use when it is due . Know other way of saying it .This is the time we live in this is the system, these days you will have a better chance of winning the national lottery than not winning a no f2f.
    I wouldn't. It's the other way round for me as I don't believe in gambling so don't do the lottery. Gambling destroys lives.
  • thespicemanthespiceman Member Posts: 6,408 Disability Gamechanger
    edited April 2019

    Hello @madmarie Sorry to hear what you have been through.

    In my previous  post to you I forgot to add. The charity I suggested you contact also deals with disability.  As well mental health.

    I apologise for this omission.

    The problem with anxiety is how you cope and deal with it.  The problem is that any mental health condition needs some form of treatment.

    Whether in the form of medication. Add also to that coping methods and strategies to deal with difficult situations..

    Helping and advising, giving guidance is what these charities do.

    If you leave it the longer the problems may persist.

    I know did the right thing to contact some one.

    Have you spoken to your Doctor?

    Often after an assessment I would contact my GP.  To discuss not only how I am. How as a Doctor advise me. Offer further guidance.

    May change medication. Offer some counselling.

    This is what the Doctor is for.

    Last time discussed the outcome of an assessment.  Gave me some organisations.

    Please I am sorry what you have been through. What is important right now is for you to think the positives.

    Focus on those.

    Find the right sort of support and help for yourself. 

    You can do this.

    I know this me but it did help.  Contacting a mental health charity.

    Please if I can be supportive contact me and I will be happy to advise.

    I know the first steps are the hardest but at the end of the day this does will ease your situation. 

    Think of if you had a friend in need.  Who had similar issues to yourself. What would you be telling them.

    Hope that helps.

    Keep in touch.

    Take care.

    @thespiceman

    Community Champion
    SCOPE Volunteer Award Engaging Communities 2019
    Mental Health advice, guidance and information to all members
    Nutrition, Diet, Wellbeing, Addiction.
    Recipes
  • madmariemadmarie Member Posts: 7 Listener
    I’m still trying to calm down from my ordeal, and I thank you sincerely for your help and support, how do I try to even start to find a mental health support worker? . Seems so hard to find.
  • madquasimodomadquasimodo Member Posts: 130 Courageous
    Your GP is the first place to look, sadly there is no much support but you may find some close to you, the services are limited but once you get help it might get you on the road to more help and getting better.
    https://www.nhs.uk/Service-Search/Mental-health-information-and-support/LocationSearch/330

    https://www.mentalhealth.org.uk/your-mental-health/getting-help

    It's not much help but if your finding things hard, try and find someone to talk to
  • horishoris Posts: 23 Member
    twonker said:
    horis said:
    Easy face facts the stark reality you will have a F2f like me and the rest of use when it is due . Know other way of saying it .This is the time we live in this is the system, these days you will have a better chance of winning the national lottery than not winning a no f2f.
    I wouldn't. It's the other way round for me as I don't believe in gambling so don't do the lottery. Gambling destroys lives.
    There always one joker in the pack 🍼
  • horishoris Posts: 23 Member
    edited April 2019
    [edited by moderator]
  • madmariemadmarie Member Posts: 7 Listener
    Thankfully you’re not government, I used to be a normal hard working passionate person, do anything to help others and then I had an awful accident and my whole life changed, I can’t live my life normally, I’m debilitated, in unbearable  pain every single day, I can’t even wash my body without help , so in your eyes I should be begging for my food and should be entitled to nothing, I’ve worked for 25 years and paid my taxes and national insurance, 
    mots sheer ignorance of people UNTIL something awful happens to you!!! 
  • twonkertwonker Posts: 617 Member
    horis said:
    twonker said:


    I wouldn't. It's the other way round for me as I don't believe in gambling so don't do the lottery. Gambling destroys lives.
    There always one joker in the pack 🍼
    I do try to make someone smile at least once a day.
  • ThreesticksThreesticks Member Posts: 128 Pioneering
    I sympathise with you. To them it's just a job, to us it's our life. My opinion, we have to stop being the victim to this draconian oppressive system. It is designed to put you off from making a claim in the first place. The multi page questionnaire, asking the same question, but in a different format over and over. Is, in my opinion, deliberate. Then the long wait for your F2F. They tell you it should be no more than eight weeks, I waited ten after many calls to them. I was constantly told, Atos doesn't work for the DWP, this is another lie. Their answering service, still announces it is Atos. when I questioned it, they told me it's just not been changed. All the correspondences to me have Atos on their letter heads. Both Atos and Capita received £550 million in payments from our Government. All in the name of saving money, allegedly.

    Then, another deliberate attempt at putting you of. Is when they realise all the medical records prove the case in your favour, they offer you the lower rate of PIP, so your made to think, at least I received something. Most won't even challenge it, the small number who do, have to jump through their final hoop.The appeals hearing, in front of three humans who have authority over you. If on the day, after a years + wait ( if you survive the wait) You may get what you was entitled to nearly two years ago. This is the negitive.

    Now, for the positive. 1 stop being their pray, 2 help is out there, such as this site, 3 don't fill in the huge form on your own get help and take your time. 4 stay on their case, if they are not on time contact them. Inform them how they can contact you if they cancel. If you cancel or are not on time they'll punish you, or even stop your claim. So keep to their agenda. 5 don't take their word as gospel, check it and check again, they often get it wrong or just make it up. 6 preparation, read it in full, don't speed read and think you understand it. 7 get a representative for that appeals hearing, you might not win, but two heads are better than one. This will take some of the tension off you.

    I, like you , was thrown in at the deep end I learned to read between their lines. I hope this will help you.     
    If you fight, you won't always win. But if you don't fight you will always always lose.
  • twonkertwonker Posts: 617 Member
    edited April 2019
    horis said:Edited by moderator
    Fact? Complete rubbish in my opinion.

  • madquasimodomadquasimodo Member Posts: 130 Courageous
    There is some element of truth, that's the reason the government outsourced the form filling, if you ask them, they don't do the assessment we just rely on the HCP report to make awards, the assessors deny its anything to do with them the DWP give the award, each blaming the other for errors, check your MP's voting record you will find many have consistently voted against anything to do with benefits.
    Frank Field headed a benefit review on PIP/ESA the results were pretty much what is seen on here, DWP blaming low awards on flawed reports, assessors denying any blame as they just fill in the forms.
    I fail to understand just how they interpret anyone's problems when they have little or no idea of what each person faces, I begged my doctor to have my leg cut off, I have an infection and have been on antibiotics for over a year trying to hold it at bay, been to hospital, taken loads of pain relief, cannot walk at all without pain, and if I do try and walk I suffer oedema and spend the rest of the day with my leg raised as high as possible to reduce the swelling.

    Try putting that over in 40 minutes to someone who has absolutely no interest in listening.
  • bracabraca Posts: 86 Member
    This is what is happening they infiltrate benefits forums and getting into the minds of vulnerable people who then start to accept the wrongful functional assessments and then this carry on of assessment providers say we do not make the decision and DWP say they are reliant on assessment providers who are paid millions of pounds £££ and so called ex employees of such companies come on here and justify that they are only following the  rules but know that same rules are flawed and vulnerable people are put through hell.
  • FitznspatzFitznspatz Member Posts: 45 Courageous
    horis said:
    The underworld Tory government plan is nobody should be on disability benefits atal , even everybody on here . Cos everyone fake liars fiddlers lazy does not matter mentality or physicaly , The national debt needs paying off first. So even scrougers . This is the real uk we live in , but they may let a few people through the system to keep people from complaining. Fact .
    I am not sure I have fully understood this but I feel I disagree with every word of it. Fact.
  • ThreesticksThreesticks Member Posts: 128 Pioneering
    madmarie said:
    Horris or horrible ? 
    Exactly what they want, infighting and separation. You may not agree with Horis, but you're in the same situation. Divide and conquer is their mantra. Don't take this the wrong way, we're  all beautiful being who has a physical disability and can input much to this forum.  Education is the key, report your successes and failures. Post links and help others to understand, they are not alone and to receive their entitlements.
    If you fight, you won't always win. But if you don't fight you will always always lose.
  • madmariemadmarie Member Posts: 7 Listener
    I agree but it is the angry and uneducated people who squash the confidence of vulnerable people. 
    With there personal opinions . 
    Are you disabled Horis ? 
  • madmariemadmarie Member Posts: 7 Listener
    I’m really sorry I didn’t mean to offend anyone but just wanted some support and advice xx
  • ThreesticksThreesticks Member Posts: 128 Pioneering
    edited April 2019
    madmarie said:
    I’m really sorry I didn’t mean to offend anyone but just wanted some support and advice xx

    No apology necessary B) , you've got all the support right here. Great people on here with much knowledge, keep looking and posting. ;)  
    If you fight, you won't always win. But if you don't fight you will always always lose.
  • thespicemanthespiceman Member Posts: 6,408 Disability Gamechanger

    Hello @madmarie how are you doing?  I am sorry to hear that your having problems accessing mental health support.

    Thank you for sharing.

    https://www.richmondfellowship.org.uk.

    Is the charity I used before. There do accept people with disabilities as well as mental health.

    You can self refer. Which means you can ring up or Email to them not through your Doctor.

    Although this could be another access to support.

    You have not offended any body.  Understand the issues and problems that you are going through.

    I am one of the community champions on the forum and apologise on behalf of some members of the community.

    Who seem to want to give their views and opinion. With out respecting any one. You wanted clear, precise and advice and guidance. 

    Some members have contributed and given you some of that. Much appreciation to them.

    I know this is difficult accessing support what I would advise if I can please.

    Is to get a sheet of paper write down what you want from any support or guidance from any charity or welfare.

    Make a rough script. I do this all the time.  I am nervous on the phone. Have to admit.

    The support and help you require will come.  You need some reassurance I can understand that. I am here as a community member to help be supportive.

    Small steps. All the time.

    Please take a deep breath and take your time. I am here as any of the community. To listen.

    Please let the community know how you are. Keep in touch.

    Always in prayers and thoughts.

    Pleasure to meet you.

    Take care.

    @thespiceman



    Community Champion
    SCOPE Volunteer Award Engaging Communities 2019
    Mental Health advice, guidance and information to all members
    Nutrition, Diet, Wellbeing, Addiction.
    Recipes
  • twonkertwonker Posts: 617 Member
    madmarie said:
    Horris or horrible ? 
      Education is the key, report your successes and failures. Post links and help others to understand, they are not alone and to receive their entitlements.
    Could I just point out that no one is 'entitled' to any benefit payments until the DWP authorise it. People do have an 'entitlement' to claim benefits but that's about as far as it goes.
    Once an award decision has been made then you become 'entitled' to the money.
  • ThreesticksThreesticks Member Posts: 128 Pioneering
    edited April 2019
    twonker said:
    madmarie said:
    Horris or horrible ? 
      Education is the key, report your successes and failures. Post links and help others to understand, they are not alone and to receive their entitlements.
    Could I just point out that no one is 'entitled' to any benefit payments until the DWP authorise it. People do have an 'entitlement' to claim benefits but that's about as far as it goes.
    Once an award decision has been made then you become 'entitled' to the money.
    I have to respectfully disagree Twonker. Everyone is entitled to claim PIP or any welfare fund if, they meet the criteria. It only becomes a benefit when you benefit from the payments one receives. It didn't help the genuine people when Benefit street was aired on TV.  Entitlement street, doesn't quite have the same ring to it. And remember DWP work for us, paid through the public purse, allegedly. But it's clear who has the ultimate say, when you have to plead at the appeals Court. Allegedly Courts are the people, overseen by a judge.
    If you fight, you won't always win. But if you don't fight you will always always lose.
  • twonkertwonker Posts: 617 Member
    edited April 2019
    twonker said:
    madmarie said:
    Horris or horrible ? 
      Education is the key, report your successes and failures. Post links and help others to understand, they are not alone and to receive their entitlements.
    Could I just point out that no one is 'entitled' to any benefit payments until the DWP authorise it. People do have an 'entitlement' to claim benefits but that's about as far as it goes.
    Once an award decision has been made then you become 'entitled' to the money.
    I have to respectfully disagree Twonker. Everyone is entitled to claim PIP or any welfare fund if, they meet the criteria. It only becomes a benefit when you benefit from the payments one receives. It didn't help the genuine people when Benefit street was aired on TV.  Entitlement street, doesn't quite have the same ring to it. And remember DWP work for us, paid through the public purse, allegedly. But it's clear who has the ultimate say, when you have to plead at the appeals Court. Allegedly Courts are the people, overseen by a judge.
    Isn't that exactly what I said. Entitlement to a benefit only comes about after the DWP award that entitlement.
    Anyhow, seeing you mentioned Benefit Street, I watched every episode and found it to be a little over the top but very close to reality. Obviously it does depend on where you live. I used to live quite close to a large council estate that was built to house the Manchester slums that were pulled down in the 50's and 60's from around  Hulme and Moss Side. Deck chairs on the pavement, and the mum still in her PJ's mid afternoon screaming at her kids the top of her voice. [removed by moderator]
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