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Disability discrimination at assessment (Equality Act)

Tara100Tara100 Member Posts: 16 Connected
edited March 2019 in PIP, DLA and AA
Hello

I've been looking over the Equality Act for the purposes of a disability discrimination complaint, and cannot work out which type of discrimination my matter falls into. I wonder if you could advise please?

So many unbelievable events took place my assessment, and the nurse refused to discuss my mental health issues, and other crucial matters.
She would not look at any of my medical or psych reports taken with me either, which span over 8 years.
She also scoffed at me when I tried to discuss my incontinences, would not let me speak of anything freely, and refused to budge from her onscreen script, saying she had a time allowance to keep to.

She told many lies about my composure, even stating in her report that I "did not present as tearful", when I sobbed so hard that she tossed a box of tissues towards me.
Anyhow, as I knew it would be as I left the room, my award was then downgraded.

Independent Assessment Services held a thorough investigation, and have admitted by letter that my assessment was 'not robust' and that the nurse failed to properly conduct the assessment. She wrote nothing in her report regarding my mental health to back this.

I have been offered another assessment and exhausted my complaint with them, and been told to go to I.C.E. - I have had an interim appeal court hearing, where the judge has agreed that I should be put through no more, and that she will assess me herself in the next month or so. I believe this is unheard of, but i was grateful to hear this.

Under the Equality Act, there are six kinds of unlawful discrimination:

 direct discrimination.

 harassment.

 indirect discrimination.

 failure to make a reasonable adjustment.

 discrimination because of something arising in consequence of disability.

 victimisation.

It's a heavy read, and my mind isn't up to it. I cannot work out which of the six types the discrimination falls under.

DWP also refuse to remove the 'non robust' assessment from my file, and this I believe is also discriminatory, as a future assessor always looks back at the findings of the last, and will be naturally swayed. This means I will be in a forever loop of what I feel will be perpetual victimisation throughout future claims.

Any thoughts please?
Thank you

Replies

  • wilkowilko Member Posts: 2,284 Disability Gamechanger
    @has Tara100, hello and welcome, proving discrimination under your circumstances is and would be a difficult thing to prove. The acessors are tied to an approximate time allowance for each acessment and for you to arrive at your acessment with documents going back years to support your application and expect the acessor to read through their entirety to gain a better overview of your mental health conditions. As you know you had the opportunity to send in extra evidence with your application for the benefit which should have been scaled down to show bullet points and highlights of your conditions. The acessor comes across as insensitive and  to ridged in her approach to conducting your acessement, regarding the comments of future acessments to be of a robust nature I don’t think or believe it was stated or recommend in a discrimination way but that your case should be fully investigated and proved. Hearing people’s comments and reading posts on this forum it is becoming apparent that mental health is going to get worst in this country starting with school children on into adulthood through lack of cumincation between their peer groups and the increase in the use of technology causing immersive addiction and isolation form society.
  • MarkmywordsMarkmywords Member Posts: 421 Pioneering
    Sorry but I don't think there is much more you can do here.
    Firstly, the benefits system has its own court oversight which you already seem to be using. Secondly, all applicants present as being disabled so how could it be proved that you were discriminated for it? Finally, malfeasance by a public body, when there is no other route, is done by a Judicial Review.
    You seem to have a very fair judge on your case so I'd suggest you pursue that. They will take the matter out of the hands of the DWP. You can also ask for an extended/indefinite award if that is proper and that would prevent the DWP from endlessly reviewing your award downwards.
    People who have won at tribunal seem to be treated with kid gloves by the DWP from then on. The fact is that the DWP has an agenda to lower the benefits bill by any means.
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    8 years worth of medical reports is an awful lot of evidence. To expect the HCP to read through all of that during your assessment is a lot to ask. Even reading through that before an assessment, is asking a lot. Sometimes with evidence less is more.
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • yanniyanni Member Posts: 50 Courageous
    Hi
    The Equality Advisory and Support Service would be able to advise if what you experienced at the assessment was illegal discrimination or not.

    www.equalityadvisoryservice.com/app/home

  • cristobalcristobal Member Posts: 966 Disability Gamechanger
    @Tara100 - I agree with @markmywords ..... 'discrimination' is treating someone different because of a particular quality - ethnicity, disability, gender etc. and it will be difficult to show that you were treated unfairly when, by definition, the assessor only deals with those who have some level of disability...

    It may be worth asking yourself what your expectations are - i.e. what do you expect your complaint to achieve, that hasn't been dealt with already?


  • Tara100Tara100 Member Posts: 16 Connected
    edited March 2019
    Rather than answer everyone separately, I'll respond to points in one reply.

    I didn't take 8 years of evidence with me, It's on DWP's records, but importantly, fully detailed on my previous assessment for the nurse to have seen.
    Is it acceptable for the nurse to ignore all my MH conditions, refusing to discuss them, when my claim is based around MH?

    Also to say I don't have a case, is also shocking. I guess no one has read any successful same cases online, for MH discrimination at assessment, such as the one here:
    https://www.disabilitynewsservice.com/disabled-solicitor-launches-ground-breaking-legal-case-over-pip-discrimination/

    I have been in touch with the equality advisory service already, and just get signposted to CAB, then CAB tell me "This is too much for us"

    Re being treated with 'kid gloves' once an appeal is won is incorrect in my case. In 2016 I applied for appeal, and DWP / PIP backed down, and paid the award I claimed for before the case went to court. 

    I did not try to talk about anything unnecessary. The nurse only wanted to quiz me on how far I could walk. Even when I answered this, she said in a disputing tone "so you can only walk the length of two double decker buses?!" In her report she wrote very little. The response boxes were all near empty, but she fixated on my shoes, stating that they were made of rubber (when they were leather) and that slip on shoes 'would not be worn by someone with a bulging disc'. I have to wear slip on shoes as I cannot bend to tie laces, which was explained at the assessment.

    Refusing to believe I suffered from any incontinences, and mocking me, she decided to test if I was incontinent she placed her hand at my genital area, and asked me to squeeze. Then she said "There's nothing wrong with you!" - As I was treated differently to others at assessment because of my disabilty, this is discrimination. Even I.A.S stated in the beginning of their investigation, that the nurse should not have put her hand on my crotch, and "this is over and above what an assessor is allowed to do" (she of course denies it, stating, someone else must have done it to me somewhere else, and I am confused)

    I think this covers the points raised above 😊

  • MarkmywordsMarkmywords Member Posts: 421 Pioneering
    You asked for thoughts and you got them. If you wish to reject them, what was the point ?
  • Tara100Tara100 Member Posts: 16 Connected
    You asked for thoughts and you got them. If you wish to reject them, what was the point ?
    There's really no need for that comment. I was simply clarifying points, and responding to comments made. 
  • Tara100Tara100 Member Posts: 16 Connected
    ilovecats said:
    Tara100 said:
    You asked for thoughts and you got them. If you wish to reject them, what was the point ?
    There's really no need for that comment. I was simply clarifying points, and responding to comments made. 
    If the nurse behaved like that then she should not have and all the assessment we do should be hands off!
    She truly did do it, and I can only assume she did it to see if I was actually wearing an incontinence pad, as her 'test' was of no actual use; being able to clench my upper thighs together, does not mean I am not incontinent.

    As a disability advisor pointed out to me, what if her touching had caused me to wet myself? I would have had to go home in a taxi in urine soaked clothes.
    Also her hand would be soaked - there was no wash basin in the room, and she would have had to leave me in the room, to go and wash herself.
  • Tara100Tara100 Member Posts: 16 Connected
    edited March 2019
    ilovecats said:
    Tara100 said:
    ilovecats said:
    Tara100 said:
    You asked for thoughts and you got them. If you wish to reject them, what was the point ?
    There's really no need for that comment. I was simply clarifying points, and responding to comments made. 
    If the nurse behaved like that then she should not have and all the assessment we do should be hands off!
    She truly did do it, and I can only assume she did it to see if I was actually wearing an incontinence pad, as her 'test' was of no actual use; being able to clench my upper thighs together, does not mean I am not incontinent.

    As a disability advisor pointed out to me, what if her touching had caused me to wet myself? I would have had to go home in a taxi in urine soaked clothes.
    Also her hand would be soaked - there was no wash basin in the room, and she would have had to leave me in the room, to go and wash herself.
    Just so you know, not all assessors are like that. I certainly never did it and never had a complaint about the way I behaved with a claimant. I used to pride myself in getting compliments for making people feel at ease. It doesn’t cost anything to be kind!
    Yes, to be fair, others have been very nice people in ESA / PIP assessments. One lady gave me a little hug as I left, because I'd cried when answering her MH queries. 

    In future, I will not go alone. Although at my assessnent centre, my disability support advisor had to raise a complaint in the past, as a different nurse removed the socks from a client without permission, and got angry when he physically couldn't get onto the examination couch safely by himself.
    Having a witness is very useful in these situations though. I shall request recording equipment also. My MP has taken my case to Amber Rudd, to push for video recording equipment to be rolled out quicker.
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    They don't record PIP assessments but you can record you own using the correct equipment. You must ring the assessment providers a couple of days before the assessment to tell them you're recording it.
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • Tara100Tara100 Member Posts: 16 Connected
    edited March 2019
    They don't record PIP assessments but you can record you own using the correct equipment. You must ring the assessment providers a couple of days before the assessment to tell them you're recording it.

     I looked into this recently, and was told by I.A.S that they had to provide the equipment (by asking well in advance) because by using my own equipment, it is not admissible evidence, due to the fact it could have been tampered with (their words)
    Is this what you meant? That they supply it?
    I do wonder who keeps it afterwards, because technically, anything can be tampered with, by anyone.
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    You were incorrectly advised, they don't provide the equipment, or record it for you. If you want to record the assessment then it's your responsibility to get the equipment yourself.
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    See link and scroll down to audio recording. http://www.capita-pip.co.uk/en/assessment-process.html

    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • Tara100Tara100 Member Posts: 16 Connected
    edited March 2019
    You were incorrectly advised, they don't provide the equipment, or record it for you. If you want to record the assessment then it's your responsibility to get the equipment yourself.

    Not surprisingly, I was misinformed. 

    I had to laugh at the rules regarding recordings. I would have to go back to the 80's and buy a double cassette recorder to get two copies:

    • Your recording equipment must be able to produce two identical copies of the recording at the end of the assessment, either on audio cassette or CD. 
    • Mobile phones and laptops are not suitable mediums for recording assessments.
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    Even if you do record an assessment it is of little use other than to remind you what went on. To be admissible as evidence the recording would need to be professionally transcribed, and it is hard enough trying to get relevant evidence read. CM's and Tribunals will not take the time to read through the transcript of an hours assessment.
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • WaylayWaylay Member Posts: 922 Pioneering
    Hi @Tara100 On discrimination, I'm no expert, but if you have a Law Centre near you, they can give good advice.

  • WaylayWaylay Member Posts: 922 Pioneering
    @Tara100 There was a Court of Appeal case a while back that's vaguely related. Comment by a lawyer: “As a result of the Court of Appeal decision, the powers of the social security tribunal have been severely curtailed. The tribunal is no longer able to address the injustice that is caused to a social welfare claimant by the application of regulations that breach their rights protected by the Human Rights Act.”
    This is now being appealed to the Supreme Court:
    LeighDay is a law firm that works on a lot of cases about disability issues. I think they accept cases from people without money to pay, too.

    Also, Re: genital touching: The PIP Assessment Guide Part 1
    says
    2.6.31. "The HP should never disturb underwear; never ask the claimant to remove their underwear; and never carry out intimate examinations (breast, rectal or genital examinations)."
    Don't know if they mean with or without clothes, but I'm pretty sure that what she did was a no-no!

    They'll almost certainly pooh-pooh your first formal complaint. Ask for it to be investigated by a Senior Manager. If that doesn't get results, send it to ICE.

    You can also complain to the DWP about the behaviour of their cintractor, and to the registrartion body of the assessor.

    Cheers!








  • cristobalcristobal Member Posts: 966 Disability Gamechanger
    I agree with @waylay when he says ..."They'll almost certainly pooh-pooh your first formal complaint. Ask for it to be investigated by a Senior Manager. If that doesn't get results, send it to ICE."

    I made a complaint about the examination part of my assessment - consent very dubious, procedure not explained, and when I stopped one of the stretching exercises because it hurt  the assessor asked "Are you sure that it's pain?" It was all on a  recording.

    My first reply was a total fob-off, seemed to be a pre-formatted letter explaining their 'procedures'.

    My next letter was lost.

    The second reply - which they said was a 'final look'- did address some of the matters I had raised but not the physical examination. The reply was quite detailed in some areas and I formed the impression that it had been conveniently overlooked, and filed under 'too difficult'

    I'd made it clear from the start that I didn't want anyone to be disciplined or sacked, and all that I was seeking was an acknowledgment that the examination was carried out badly, and a promise that the assessor would be advised/ retrained about what they must do as regards consent, claimant being in pain etc. I was left feeling very disappointed that they chose not to do either of these things....


  • Tara100Tara100 Member Posts: 16 Connected
    Waylay said:
    Hi @Tara100 On discrimination, I'm no expert, but if you have a Law Centre near you, they can give good advice.

    Hi, sadly my nearest law centre is over 100 miles away, and they can't even talk to me over the phone, as you have to be in their catchment area.

    Thank you though.
  • Tara100Tara100 Member Posts: 16 Connected
    Waylay said:
    @Tara100 There was a Court of Appeal case a while back that's vaguely related. Comment by a lawyer: “As a result of the Court of Appeal decision, the powers of the social security tribunal have been severely curtailed. The tribunal is no longer able to address the injustice that is caused to a social welfare claimant by the application of regulations that breach their rights protected by the Human Rights Act.”
    This is now being appealed to the Supreme Court:
    LeighDay is a law firm that works on a lot of cases about disability issues. I think they accept cases from people without money to pay, too.

    Also, Re: genital touching: The PIP Assessment Guide Part 1
    says
    2.6.31. "The HP should never disturb underwear; never ask the claimant to remove their underwear; and never carry out intimate examinations (breast, rectal or genital examinations)."
    Don't know if they mean with or without clothes, but I'm pretty sure that what she did was a no-no!

    They'll almost certainly pooh-pooh your first formal complaint. Ask for it to be investigated by a Senior Manager. If that doesn't get results, send it to ICE.

    You can also complain to the DWP about the behaviour of their cintractor, and to the registrartion body of the assessor.

    Cheers!








    Thank you so much for this info, it'll be my Saturday night homework 😁

    I have reported the nurse to the M&NC back in November last year. They are still investigating her fitness to practice. Although I've since learned that when presented with complaints, it's rare for them to act, unless pressured by a lawyer or similar. 
  • Tara100Tara100 Member Posts: 16 Connected
    edited March 2019
    cristobal said:
    I agree with @waylay when he says ..."They'll almost certainly pooh-pooh your first formal complaint. Ask for it to be investigated by a Senior Manager. If that doesn't get results, send it to ICE."

    I made a complaint about the examination part of my assessment - consent very dubious, procedure not explained, and when I stopped one of the stretching exercises because it hurt  the assessor asked "Are you sure that it's pain?" It was all on a  recording.

    My first reply was a total fob-off, seemed to be a pre-formatted letter explaining their 'procedures'.

    My next letter was lost.

    The second reply - which they said was a 'final look'- did address some of the matters I had raised but not the physical examination. The reply was quite detailed in some areas and I formed the impression that it had been conveniently overlooked, and filed under 'too difficult'

    I'd made it clear from the start that I didn't want anyone to be disciplined or sacked, and all that I was seeking was an acknowledgment that the examination was carried out badly, and a promise that the assessor would be advised/ retrained about what they must do as regards consent, claimant being in pain etc. I was left feeling very disappointed that they chose not to do either of these things....


    cristobal said:
    I agree with @waylay when he says ..."They'll almost certainly pooh-pooh your first formal complaint. Ask for it to be investigated by a Senior Manager. If that doesn't get results, send it to ICE."

    I made a complaint about the examination part of my assessment - consent very dubious, procedure not explained, and when I stopped one of the stretching exercises because it hurt  the assessor asked "Are you sure that it's pain?" It was all on a  recording.

    My first reply was a total fob-off, seemed to be a pre-formatted letter explaining their 'procedures'.

    My next letter was lost.

    The second reply - which they said was a 'final look'- did address some of the matters I had raised but not the physical examination. The reply was quite detailed in some areas and I formed the impression that it had been conveniently overlooked, and filed under 'too difficult'

    I'd made it clear from the start that I didn't want anyone to be disciplined or sacked, and all that I was seeking was an acknowledgment that the examination was carried out badly, and a promise that the assessor would be advised/ retrained about what they must do as regards consent, claimant being in pain etc. I was left feeling very disappointed that they chose not to do either of these things....


    Sorry i missed this. In my case, I.A.S have concluded a full investigation, and have admitted fault by letter, stating that the assessment 'was not robust' and that none of my mental health issues were discussed or noted. They admit that her report findings were scant, and not thorough enough to base her findings (the report response boxes had a sentence in each, or left empty)

    As I've exhausted their complaints procedure, they wrote at the bottom of the letter, you may now go to I.C.E.

    This is my next step in a few days. Though even I.C.E only make recommendations to I.A.S, and actually cannot enforce changes from what I can see.

    Unless I can get legal assistance, I'm stuffed really, and the thought of having to explain a year of correspondence for an I.C.E case makes me feel ill.
  • wilkowilko Member Posts: 2,284 Disability Gamechanger
    Hello everyone, getting prove and proving what may or did happen is a difficult job in any circumstances unless there are witnesses to back up the accusations that are being disputed. Being persistent and consistent with your approach to proving the incedent happened looks like it’s the only course of action in theses type of cases.
  • Tara100Tara100 Member Posts: 16 Connected
    edited March 2019
    wilko said:
    Hello everyone, getting prove and proving what may or did happen is a difficult job in any circumstances unless there are witnesses to back up the accusations that are being disputed. Being persistent and consistent with your approach to proving the incedent happened looks like it’s the only course of action in theses type of cases.
    Hi. Independent assessment services have admitted fault by their final conclusions letter, but can't admit if the nurse assaulted me. I'm hoping that there's other complaints about her behaviour lodged with the N&MC, then that will change things.

    We need the video equipment being slowly trialled, to be available to all, now.
  • twonkertwonker Posts: 617 Member
    edited March 2019
    Tara100 said:


    We need the video equipment being slowly trialled, to be available to all, now.
    Provide it yes, but for it being used that should be at the option of the claimant. The default should not be that it is used unless the claimant objects. It should be the other way round with permission being sought by the assessor beforehand. Not everybody would want to be videoed. The images of the claimant belong to the claimant and not the DWP or the assessing company. 
  • wildlifewildlife Member Posts: 1,314 Pioneering
    @Tara100 I have had a complaint with ICE and thought it might be of help to tell you it took them over 2 years to get around to investigating it and when they did they insisted that they only look at system failures. I.e How your complaint was handled by IAS and not anything to do with the assessment or benefit decision. I'm not sure where they drawer the line as to my mind anything that is not done correctly is a system failure. I found a complete wall of defense for the assessor with excuses like it's your word against hers (in my case). In other words they only believe them not us where there is no proof. I really hope you can get justice. 
  • Tara100Tara100 Member Posts: 16 Connected
    twonker said:
    Tara100 said:


    We need the video equipment being slowly trialled, to be available to all, now.
    Provide it yes, but for it being used that should be at the option of the claimant. The default should not be that it is used unless the claimant objects. It should be the other way round with permission being sought by the assessor beforehand. Not everybody would want to be videoed. The images of the claimant belong to the claimant and not the DWP or the assessing company. 
    I thought this went without saying...

    For those who don't want it, they will go to assessments at their own risk, and could end up in a scenario like mine. Yes, it's their choice.
  • Tara100Tara100 Member Posts: 16 Connected
    wildlife said:
    @Tara100 I have had a complaint with ICE and thought it might be of help to tell you it took them over 2 years to get around to investigating it and when they did they insisted that they only look at system failures. I.e How your complaint was handled by IAS and not anything to do with the assessment or benefit decision. I'm not sure where they drawer the line as to my mind anything that is not done correctly is a system failure. I found a complete wall of defense for the assessor with excuses like it's your word against hers (in my case). In other words they only believe them not us where there is no proof. I really hope you can get justice. 
    Yes, I'd read ICE isn't much use in many cases sadly. They work more so, to implement better procedures, and not a lot else.
    I'm still going to make a complaint to them, so that I can show I've followed the full complaints process, plus it'll still sting IAS, if only a little.
  • wildlifewildlife Member Posts: 1,314 Pioneering
    @Tara100 I agree that it's important to see the process through to the end although there's still the Parliamentary Ombudsman after ICE. All they did was rolitary cognize that IAS had not responded to my complaint within the time scale set and they had to pay me a consolitary £35 which I consider an insult after all I went through. I was pinning my hopes on ICE doing an independent investigation as their name implies but found they sided with the assessor and in their final report they mentioned that IAS's investigation had found no fault with my report so insinuating they must be right. I was left feeling very let down. This is only my experience, your case is different and one would hope they'll take it very seriously. Good luck...    
  • Tara100Tara100 Member Posts: 16 Connected
    wildlife said:
    @Tara100 I agree that it's important to see the process through to the end although there's still the Parliamentary Ombudsman after ICE. All they did was rolitary cognize that IAS had not responded to my complaint within the time scale set and they had to pay me a consolitary £35 which I consider an insult after all I went through. I was pinning my hopes on ICE doing an independent investigation as their name implies but found they sided with the assessor and in their final report they mentioned that IAS's investigation had found no fault with my report so insinuating they must be right. I was left feeling very let down. This is only my experience, your case is different and one would hope they'll take it very seriously. Good luck...    
    Thanks ❤
    I was offered £25.00 by DWP for their failings, then told no one made such an offer, so it wasnt valid 😄 You really couldn't make it up. 

    On a more serious note, I was telephoned by an IAS senior complaints manager, and told to write in with a money request amount for private therapy sessions.
    I wrote in, then received a letter saying there is no evidence of such a phone call, so there is no offer. I have the original call recorded on my phone though. 
    I've never known such deceit and lies and corruption.
  • twonkertwonker Posts: 617 Member
    edited April 2019
    Tara100 said:





    I thought this went without saying...

    For those who don't want it, they will go to assessments at their own risk, and could end up in a scenario like mine. Yes, it's their choice.
    Not necessarily. The way the government are looking at it is that it will either be compulsory for all or at best it is for the claimant to opt out.
    Even with video taping, nothing is going to stop an assessor from forming their own view/opinion which may well not be the same as what the claimant thinks.
    Also, are you seriously thinking that the DWP decision maker is going to review 1 hour or so of video tape before making a decision? If they did that, the queue of claimants waiting for a decision will be unmanageable.
    Same will go for a Tribunal, I cannot see a panel having to go through hours of taping for those making appeals.
  • Tara100Tara100 Member Posts: 16 Connected
    twonker said:
    Tara100 said:





    I thought this went without saying...

    For those who don't want it, they will go to assessments at their own risk, and could end up in a scenario like mine. Yes, it's their choice.
    Not necessarily. The way the government are looking at it is that it will either be compulsory for all or at best it is for the claimant to opt out.
    Even with video taping, nothing is going to stop an assessor from forming their own view/opinion which may well not be the same as what the claimant thinks.
    Also, are you seriously thinking that the DWP decision maker is going to review 1 hour or so of video tape before making a decision? If they did that, the queue of claimants waiting for a decision will be unmanageable.
    Same will go for a Tribunal, I cannot see a panel having to go through hours of taping for those making appeals.

    You or I do not know the ins-and outs of how the system will work, so let's not waste time speculating eh?
    You could make enquiries with the right departments as to how the trial is going if you really want to know.

    Call me selfish, but I won't be changing my mind for my own future protection. And on that note, assessors have also been assaulted by clients, and many welcome the new approach for their own safety.
  • twonkertwonker Posts: 617 Member
    edited April 2019
    Tara100 said:
    twonker said:
    Tara100 said:





    I thought this went without saying...

    For those who don't want it, they will go to assessments at their own risk, and could end up in a scenario like mine. Yes, it's their choice.
    Not necessarily. The way the government are looking at it is that it will either be compulsory for all or at best it is for the claimant to opt out.
    Even with video taping, nothing is going to stop an assessor from forming their own view/opinion which may well not be the same as what the claimant thinks.
    Also, are you seriously thinking that the DWP decision maker is going to review 1 hour or so of video tape before making a decision? If they did that, the queue of claimants waiting for a decision will be unmanageable.
    Same will go for a Tribunal, I cannot see a panel having to go through hours of taping for those making appeals.

    You or I do not know the ins-and outs of how the system will work, so let's not waste time speculating eh?
    You could make enquiries with the right departments as to how the trial is going if you really want to know.

    Call me selfish, but I won't be changing my mind for my own future protection. And on that note, assessors have also been assaulted by clients, and many welcome the new approach for their own safety.
    The trial is being carried out on an 'opt out' basis by the claimant. If opting out, sound only will be recorded. Whether that should also be an 'opt out' is another matter. I believe that all recordings, sound or vision, should be carried out with the claimant's prior permission. Far too much big brother has already been forced on us without our permission. 
    Claimants for a welfare benefit should not be treated as suspects are in a police interview room.

    As for assessors being assaulted. I doubt very much that that is such a significant number that the government want these recordings. In fact just with a quick scan on google assaults on claimants are more prevalent. Assessors have a panic strip around where they sit to press if they feel intimidated.

    For me, well I don't want any recordings and if the assessor is unfair or unjust I have the appeal system to fall back on.

    As for assessors wanting this system of recording could you please post a link as to where your statement comes from?
  • Tara100Tara100 Member Posts: 16 Connected
    edited April 2019
    twonker said:
    Tara100 said:
    twonker said:
    Tara100 said:





    I thought this went without saying...

    For those who don't want it, they will go to assessments at their own risk, and could end up in a scenario like mine. Yes, it's their choice.
    Not necessarily. The way the government are looking at it is that it will either be compulsory for all or at best it is for the claimant to opt out.
    Even with video taping, nothing is going to stop an assessor from forming their own view/opinion which may well not be the same as what the claimant thinks.
    Also, are you seriously thinking that the DWP decision maker is going to review 1 hour or so of video tape before making a decision? If they did that, the queue of claimants waiting for a decision will be unmanageable.
    Same will go for a Tribunal, I cannot see a panel having to go through hours of taping for those making appeals.

    You or I do not know the ins-and outs of how the system will work, so let's not waste time speculating eh?
    You could make enquiries with the right departments as to how the trial is going if you really want to know.

    Call me selfish, but I won't be changing my mind for my own future protection. And on that note, assessors have also been assaulted by clients, and many welcome the new approach for their own safety.
    The trial is being carried out on an 'opt out' basis by the claimant. If opting out, sound only will be recorded. Whether that should also be an 'opt out' is another matter. I believe that all recordings, sound or vision, should be carried out with the claimant's prior permission. Far too much big brother has already been forced on us without our permission. 
    Claimants for a welfare benefit should not be treated as suspects are in a police interview room.

    As for assessors being assaulted. I doubt very much that that is such a significant number that the government want these recordings. In fact just with a quick scan on google assaults on claimants are more prevalent. Assessors have a panic strip around where they sit to press if they feel intimidated.

    For me, well I don't want any recordings and if the assessor is unfair or unjust I have the appeal system to fall back on.

    As for assessors wanting this system of recording could you please post a link as to where your statement comes from?

    Google is your friend for the info you need. Whatever links I'd post would be joyfully ripped apart I'm sure. 
    You can also make an appointment to see your MP like I have. He can then pass on your agenda to the HP.

    I'd appreciate my thread not going off on a tangent anymore about future DWP / I.A.S recordings. I will not speak on this issue any further and hope you will respect this.
    Thank you.
  • WaylayWaylay Member Posts: 922 Pioneering
    I wrote in, then received a letter saying there is no evidence of such a phone call, so there is no offer. I have the original call recorded on my phone though. 
    I've never known such deceit and lies and corruption.
    @Tara100 OMG. Ridiculous!
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