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What can I expect from PIP tribunal?

frosty2408frosty2408 Member Posts: 9 Listener
edited April 2019 in PIP, DLA and AA
Would it be possible for someone to help or give me some advice please. It looks like I'm going to go to a tribunal for my daughters PIP. I really have no idea what to right, expect or do. Thank you in advance

Replies

  • CockneyRebelCockneyRebel Member Posts: 5,257 Disability Gamechanger
    Hi @frosty2408 and welcome

    You might find the following usefuull but please come back with any questions

    REPRESENTATION AND ROLES

    You can be 

    - a representative - you don’t talk for the appellant because they’re there but you do get to outline what award you’re looking for and what the legal case is as well as pick up on any issues the tribunal or appellant miss or misinterpret.

    - observer - sits away from the tribunal but you are watching only. You do not and cannot take part.

    - witness - you give your own evidence to support the appellants own case. You don’t get to comment on anything else. You watch silently, do your bit and you’re done.

    - appellant - the person making the claim being appealed. The only person allowed to present their evidence and answer questions on it unless they have an appointee. 

    Most family members struggle to be observers as it’s hard to be silent. They struggle to represent as they don’t know enough of the law, case law or guidance and confuse the role with speaking for the appellant and get shot down in flames to the detriment of the case. They often make poor witnesses as they haven’t been prepared by a rep and want to rehear the whole case instead of focusing on what they know. 

    The temptation to talk for any appellant needs to be resisted. You’ll always get people saying “but...

    - they’re not articulate.

    - they’re nervous.

    and many other arguments. Bottom line - nothing makes the case for the consequences of someone’s ill health better than a poorly appellant. 

    The other side of having representative is that, as you’ll read on here, people get incredibly stressed with the process; what comes when; what letters mean; what is good evidence; what will happen on the day. A good rep explains all and covers all the bases. It’s typical that people think representation is just about what happens on the day and the outcome. That’s about 10% of what gets done. A good rep should also keep you off web forums (seriously). All your questions should be answered by them. If people come on here because they need answers and they have a rep. that is concerning. 

    Now, having said that, tribunals are inquisitorial so it’s perfectly possible to win a case without a rep just as it’s equally possible to lose a case with a rep. However, a badly presented case can win with a decent tribunal but won’t with a poor one People who have won without representation tend to almost always ascribe this to something they did rather than the skill of the tribunal pulling out what was relevant. Having seen tribunals over three decades, including many times as an observer, it’s almost never the case. I’ve never yet heard of anyone unrepresented winning two tribunals for themselves. 

    Finally, don’t confuse an organisation with a good reputation as meaning all their reps will be good. Good organisations have bad reps. Reputationally poor organisation have good reps. How can you tell? Walk away from anyone who wants to tell you their success rate? It’s a fave tactic of organisations that charge but also of inexperienced or renegade/boastful reps. That tells you that they’re either lying or cherry picking only cases which are clear cut winners and probably would be anyway with a decent tribunal and without them. Good reps do not guarantee a win but they will take in winnable cases rather than likely winners and they’re the more likely to turn a marginal case into a winner. They’ll also know their law, case law and guidance and be able to cite it but in plain English. 

    TRIBUNAL

    1 - Concentrate wholly on what you were like on the date of claim.

    2 - There are no “trick” questions. Tribunals are usually listed 20 to 40 minutes apart so, apart from the appeal papers, they need questions which cut across lots of functions. So the car question is brilliant because it indicates grip; mobility; dexterity; the ability to do something repeatedly; concentration and stamina. Instead of thinking negatively about such stuff think about what they’re getting at and your answers will be much better and more detailed. Similar questions include whether you’ve been on holiday recently. It feeds into mobility (getting across an airport); stamina; the ability to cope alone; the need for aids and appliances.

    3 - There are no set rules or order for a hearing beyind the requirement that it must be seen to be fair. 

    4 - Watch the judge’s pen. All 3 members may take notes but only the judge writes a record of proceedings. If you don’t want them to miss anything then remember that they can’t write as fast as you can speak, so watch their pen and slow down. Don’t worry about going too slow. They will tell you if you do.

    5 - Never interrupt any tribunal member. It is perfectly okay to challenge them provided it’s not rude or aggressive. However, think about whether what you’re challenging them on is directly related to points. If it’s not then better to focus on points. This is especially important because loads of people second guess the demeanour of tribunal members as determining whether they are pro or against and it’s largely nonsense. An aggressive, challenging member may well just be a poor communicator and wholly on your side right up to the point you challenge them etc.

    6 - Get yourself a representative and travel to the venue by whatever means makes you feel comfortable. It’s only ever an issue if you don’t explain what you did in full and if doing so contradicts your other evidence in some way for daily living and /or mobility.

    7 - Same goes for clothes. You need to wear whatever makes you feel comfortable and relaxed. If you’re not relaxed then the likelihood of you presenting well are much reduced. Dressing down is not a good idea unless that all you can afford. A person who feels naked without make-up or a suit and tie will similarly be over stressed if they try to pretend they’re in their comfort zone dressing down. 

    8 - Other people’s tribunal experience can be valuable but it’s just that. Their experience. If they lost then it’s the tribunal to blame. If they win they everything they did is why they won and what you must do. The truth is usually very much in between.

    9 - Know your case. What points are you going for and why. What’s your evidence? “The HCP was a liar” is neither evidence nor a winning strategy. Also, know the appeal papers. What’s where. 

    10 - Do not be tempted to claim you’ve worsened since the date of claim. That’s a recipe for a failed appeal and an invitation to make another claim. Even if you have got worse always concentrate on your date of claim and what you were like then.





    Be all you can be, make  every day count. Namaste
  • frosty2408frosty2408 Member Posts: 9 Listener
    Hi CockneyRebel and thank you for your reply.

    It's an awful lot to take in. Not only am i the parent but also appointee for my daughter. I get over emotional and can see this being my downfall in writing and tribunal. 

    I think i need a rep .......
  • CockneyRebelCockneyRebel Member Posts: 5,257 Disability Gamechanger
    Have you submitted an SSCS1 yet ?
    To do this you only need the basics for your appeal as well as a copy of the MR.

    Unfortunately, in most parts of the country the wait for a tribunal date isaround a year so there is no need to rush. Howerver if you can secure the services of a rep it can ease the stress on you

    Be all you can be, make  every day count. Namaste
  • frosty2408frosty2408 Member Posts: 9 Listener
    I called today on the of chance the MR result was in. They said i should receive the letter next week and their decision hasnt changed? I am shocked along with friends and family but also wonder what exactly it is they need to see. The original award was 0 points on both sections. 
  • CockneyRebelCockneyRebel Member Posts: 5,257 Disability Gamechanger
    Only around 18% of MR's change the result whereas tribunals at around 70% if you attend

    Have you asked for / received a copy of the assessment report ?
    Be all you can be, make  every day count. Namaste
  • frosty2408frosty2408 Member Posts: 9 Listener
    I got a brief report on the decision letter, would that be it?
  • ThreesticksThreesticks Member Posts: 128 Pioneering
    I'm in the same boat Frosty. I immediately ask for a copy of the assessment report. And had the mandatory reconsideration, which took another six weeks, computer said, NO. Now I have to go to an tribunal, like yourself.  It's very stressful I know, go for the Rep, I would in your case. 
    If you fight, you won't always win. But if you don't fight you will always always lose.
  • CockneyRebelCockneyRebel Member Posts: 5,257 Disability Gamechanger
    The assessment report is separate from the notes on the decision letter. You should ring DWP and ask for a copy, this will give you an idea what the assessors thoughts and findings were. This will help to identify the points that you need to address
    Be all you can be, make  every day count. Namaste
  • frosty2408frosty2408 Member Posts: 9 Listener
    Thank you Threesticks. Its very daunting. It's an awful process and seems totally wrong.
  • frosty2408frosty2408 Member Posts: 9 Listener
    CockneyRebel I will do that Monday,  I suppose until I get the MR letter too I wont fully understand what I'm arguing. 

    Thank you so much. You dont fancy being my rep? 
  • frosty2408frosty2408 Member Posts: 9 Listener
    I have asked for the assessment report and logged tribunal online. 
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