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Assessment details

madquasimodo Member Posts: 127 Courageous
edited April 2019 in PIP, DLA, and AA
Can anyone enlighten me as to INC 804139 its listed as a reason no supporting evidence was read prior to assessment, I have been going through the PA4 report and see many references to "MSO shows" = muscular skeleton observation, this did not take place until later in the assessment, so is some of the report filled in as you go, or filled in after the event?

I read through the report and I can sort of see where some errors come, but if the Neurologist's and Physio's report were read and the assessor had read up on Vestibular Balance (paperwork from vestibular org supplied) they would have understood how the effects come into play during a normal day, I just read this and see "we said" and the assessor writes "I think you can" from reading on here and seeing comments left by people in the know, assessor's read all your sign's like using the arms of the chair when getting up, not being able to get on the therapy couch without help, 

I see at the end or the report it states "due to ongoing specialist input, a reduction in symptoms may occur a review date of 2 years"
In the reports it says nerve damage and no improvement, rehabilitation reports no improvement, Neurologist has nothing to offer, no further treatment. By all accounts the damage done will not improve and has no medical solution. 


  • cristobal
    cristobal Member Posts: 987 Disability Gamechanger
    @madquasimodo...I wonder if the key phrase is "if the assessor had read up on VB (artwork from vestibular org supplied..."

    PIP is about loss of functionality i.e. how a condition affects you personally - information on a website will just be generic and won't support your application.

    If i remember correctly the application form says not to send stuff like pages printed out from the web, appointment letters..

    Hope this helps......
  • madquasimodo
    madquasimodo Member Posts: 127 Courageous
    edited April 2019
    The effects from Vestibular balance are not well known, in my surgery none of the doctors had a clue what it was, speak to anyone else and they know nothing, imagine walking along a pavement in a straight line, but when you walk you can't balance and veer off to the left, your brain says your going straight, your eyes know your not, but each step forward you head right to correct the veering to the left, only you don't because your brain say its wrong.
    Vertigo, sickness (sea sickness effect eyes and brain don't match) light, flashing (shop fronts going by when moving) loud noises, too many people around you can set off vertigo, your brain is saying walk this way to avoid them, your feet and eyes can't make up what to do.

    So unless you have been trained in neurological problems and vestibular balance, its very rare to find anyone who knows, but this was in the rehabilitation reports, neurological reports, audiology reports (they do a majority of the balance tests)

    The glazed look on the assessors face said it all, when I explained the Micro Vascular Decompression I thought she understood, but as I described the tests and what had happened we both knew she had no idea   
  • wilko
    wilko Member Posts: 2,447 Disability Gamechanger
    Hello, your assessment was not about your illness, diagnosis or any medication your taking. When you filled in the PIP application form you where asked questions relating to how you coped managed your daily life in relation to the PIP descriptors. And at your assessment the assor is trying to justify your answers submitted in the form to your verbal and physical abilities shown at the assessment. The fact you gave or sent in additional information about your illness, condition or diagnosis to explain and support your claim is of little help or interest to the acessor who's job is to determine if you are able to preform the descriptors in a safe, repeatedly and in a timely manner..
  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User] Posts: 587 Listener
    edited April 2019
    That's interesting, sorry, not related to your original post but I'm wondering if I have this problem as well, I walk off to the right a lot, it's gotten to the point where if and when I go out anywhere my Son has to walk on the side of the right if it's on the right so I don't walk off into it. It's a strange feeling to be honest. I also have chronic headaches, dizzy spells sitting or standing, motion sickness, bump into things, I take stick out with me for balance as well as pain, I have problems with my ears. I was diagnosed with Vertigo some years ago due to the headaches.

    So if I wanted to speak to my GP about this, would I need to show them info on this? (Sorry for changing the subject!).
  • poppy123456
    poppy123456 Member Posts: 28,349 Disability Gamechanger

    Information from the internet or leaflets is not classed as evidence, which is why it wouldn't even have been read. Everyone is affected differently by these conditions and you can't compare 2 people. You need to prove how your condition affects you, rather than send in information about the condition in general.
  • madquasimodo
    madquasimodo Member Posts: 127 Courageous
    edited April 2019
    Thanks for the reply, poppy123456 all the information was in the neurologist/physio/audiology reports, some of it as test and responses which need someone with some medical training to understand, each report had a conclusion explaining what restrictions these results had, 100% Bilateral vestibular failure resulting in poor balance, unable to stand with eyes closed, falling backwards, narrow gait unsteady on feet, unable to walk in straight line, cannot walk without support, blah blah  blah blah, it goes on for ages. physio report is pretty much the same, while I know information from the web is not evidence, it was provided with the medical reports as every doctor we had seen knew nothing until we were referred neurologist after failed recovery.

    I think we proved he case but the assessor did not agree, there was a full medical report from the DWP own disability analyst, which as I know is not regarded by PIP as they don't need to assess any conditions which the ESA require a doctor to check.

    WF2k if you can relate to any of these symptoms you should get referred to Audiologist for testing there are some very specific tests which can show balance problems. As I recall (just checked) Caloric testing which SWMBO failed completely indicating no peripheral vestibular output, there or others such as Rombergs and Unterbergers which will show where the problem may be.
  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User] Posts: 587 Listener
    Ok, thank you very much @madquasimodo
  • madquasimodo
    madquasimodo Member Posts: 127 Courageous
    Thank you ilovecats for the reply, do you know if the PIP2 is filled in sequence or partially filled and then returned to fill out the time consuming parts, the reason I ask, some of the justifications comments list MSE and MSO while you continually assess someone to report their mental state (I guess) some comments relate to the physical exam which was done much later in the assessment. I was wondering if the assessor went back to fill in the justification.

    On the point of systems not being live or running, me and the boss both had the same "sorry computers down" which considering how busy the DWP are I guess its not surprising.   


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