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tribunal in 5 days Can we re apply right away

melissahicking2019melissahicking2019 Member Posts: 122 Courageous
edited May 2019 in PIP, DLA and AA
Hi everybody, my friends tribunal is a 5 days , Hes not got a representative and i cannot attend as i have stage 4 kidney disease .      

He has very good evidence and we are convinced we could win a paperbased tribunal. 

We have been advised for him to attend but we are going to ring the HMTCS tomorrow to see about a paperbased as it really would be in my friends best interests as he has no representation and could cause more damage than good by attending. 

Most people say he should go as theirs a better chance of him winning. But hes very fragile and he suffers Genuine panic attacks ect and i personally agree that it would be unfair to send him to a tribunal to have to fight his case oin his own. So we are going to take the plunge and ask for a paper based tribunal...

The name of the tread is still relevant dont worry folks.

After this tribunal, if he looses because of a paperbased tribunal. Can he immediately re-claim for PIP
it has been over a year since having it taken away from him and hes got alot worse without care and we now have all his evidence to present the DWP.

So if he looses can he reapply.

p.s hes also now on new medication... resperidome. 1.5ml

THANK YOU.

Replies

  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    There's nothing stopping your friend from re-apply if the Tribunal doesn't go in his favour but using the same evidence he previously used will likely see another refusal. New medication isn't going to help another claim.
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • MatildaMatilda Member Posts: 2,616 Disability Gamechanger
    You can make a new PIP claim at any time.  Tribunals should make allowances for panic attacks.  At the start of my hearing, the judge told me that I could leave the room for a while if I wanted, no need to ask permission.  I assume this is standard procedure.  I didn't need to go outside myself as I don't experience panic attacks.

  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    Even if he was represented he would still have to answer all the questions himself. Not appearing in person after waiting all this time seems such a shame when the chances of a decision in his favour with a paper based is still 5-8% even with representation.
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • melissahicking2019melissahicking2019 Member Posts: 122 Courageous
    edited May 2019
    yes but it really does anger me that just because the claiment requires a paperbased assessment that theres less chance of him winning. its not right and not fair. genuinly ill people who cant attend require paperbased appeals. just because they cant go should not mean really ill people are refused benefits... its unfair. sure attending gives the claiment a chance to answer questions and address certain points, but if a person is genuinly ill and deserves benefits, and has evidence to prove it. thewn it should be enough. this system disgusts me and it ruines peoples lives because of neglect and biased assertions all the time. This Paperbased Less likley to win **** is just another nail in the coffin of millions of genuinly ill people. it makes me sick.
  • melissahicking2019melissahicking2019 Member Posts: 122 Courageous
    in no way directed at any of the forum...by the way.
  • melissahicking2019melissahicking2019 Member Posts: 122 Courageous
    edited May 2019
    There's nothing stopping your friend from re-apply if the Tribunal doesn't go in his favour but using the same evidence he previously used will likely see another refusal. New medication isn't going to help another claim.
    if we re-apply we will be offering new evidence never before used in pip claim . it has only been used for this tribunal. But i do think that if this evidence does not convince a tribunal. then would it really persuade the Deny With Pleasure.

    So we can reapply immediately yes.
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    I think you're making the wrong decision but that's your friends choice. If he applies again and he's refused then it will be another wait of more than 1 year because most MR decisions remain the same. Waiting times for Tribunals are huge right across the country and some are waiting in excess of 1 year.

    If he applies again before the Tribunal make a decision then any new decision will overrule the Tribunal decision.

    As a community champion here on scope i will ask you to please be mindful of your language. It's really not nice for people to read and does offend some people.
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • CockneyRebelCockneyRebel Member Posts: 5,258 Disability Gamechanger
    Is the new evidence applicable to the date of the assessment ?
    If not then the tribunal will not take it into consideration
    Be all you can be, make  every day count. Namaste
  • melissahicking2019melissahicking2019 Member Posts: 122 Courageous
    yes the evidence proves long term from 1999 upto 2019

    also upto and around the appeal process stating same illnesses and problems ect...
  • April2018momApril2018mom Member - under moderation Posts: 2,882 Member - under moderation
    If the evidence is not applicable they are not going to take it into account. 
  • melissahicking2019melissahicking2019 Member Posts: 122 Courageous
    edited May 2019
    I know Poppy he should go and represent himself. But we both fear that it could do 1 of 2 things. 

    A. if he manages to get a grip and offers an outstanding verbal admission and answers all the questions correctly and promptly replying with educated and well thought out answers the court will consider him to be quite capable and well.

    B. If he does the opposite and clams up and gets confused and mixed up and offers contradictions and errors he could mess up his whole case through offering little in terms of a defense.

    we just dont know what to do.

    Ideally we need a proper representative to help. But its 5 days away and theres no way of arranging it in time.

    So options are.

    1 . Request a paperbased hearing and hope the evidence will be enough considering it does indeed show the panel what they need to know.. Also there are good statements and admissions arguing his case and challenging the CAPITA DWP assessment ect.

    2. attend and hope that he can offer the tribunal a balanced representation on his own... Which i doubt he would do. i personally think he would be all over the place and have little to offer the judges in reply to their questions ect. He knows his illness and how it effects him, But hes not at all prepared for this tribunal Because he cannot  do his own reading and he has not gone through this appeal himself. everything has been done by family and friends.


    either-way. whatever the outcome.

    Another genuinely ill person will of been robbed of what little help they where receiving because the system does not know the truth or understand it correctly.
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger

    Ideally we need a proper representative to help.

    No he doesn't because he would still need to answer all the questions himself.

    You have totally the wrong idea about Tribunals, there are understanding and will listen to what he has to say.

    If his condition has got worse since the decision is made then the Tribunal won't take that into consideration, including the evidence.

    I really think you're blowing this all out of proportion and just assuming what may happen. 71% of those that appear in person have a decision in their favour.
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    Also be aware that PIP isn't about the illnesses, it's how you're affected by them against the PIP descriptors.
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • melissahicking2019melissahicking2019 Member Posts: 122 Courageous
    edited May 2019
    Also be aware that PIP isn't about the illnesses, it's how you're affected by them against the PIP descriptors.
    exactly, how am i supposed to tell this to my friend,. Hes got problems....And if he has to attend that court hes not going to know what hit him...

    At present he thinks everybody is doing it for him and all hes got to do is attend and remain seated while his representative answers the majority of the questions. 

    Now iv either got to tell him that he will have to answer all thier questions and that it is really important that he understands what he is doing.

    Or the safer option.

    That we are not going to attend the court and take our chances with a paperbased tribunal. But it could go against him for not attending in person.


    P.s i know the "My Friend" Cliche seems to be the case, But its not... 
  • melissahicking2019melissahicking2019 Member Posts: 122 Courageous
    edited May 2019

    Ideally we need a proper representative to help.

    No he doesn't because he would still need to answer all the questions himself.

    You have totally the wrong idea about Tribunals, there are understanding and will listen to what he has to say.

    If his condition has got worse since the decision is made then the Tribunal won't take that into consideration, including the evidence.

    I really think you're blowing this all out of proportion and just assuming what may happen. 71% of those that appear in person have a decision in their favour.
    Regardless of how they address there questioning.???

    Or about 16%  of people who struggle to maintain concentration and offer sensible answers and manage coherent questioning ,or struggle answering questions and offer little in terms of defense actually win their cases if attending. 

    thereby adding to the defense that paperbased assessments are just as likely to win as attending in person if the attendee could not offer a strong defense on the grounds of mental health problems.

    i just cant weigh it up either way without accepting the pro's cons are the same either way.

    im seriously considering attending with him. it seems the best option... But as you say, he will still have to answer all the questions himself.


  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    You've had a long time to prepare your friend of what to expect, to tell him he will need to answer the questions himself but you let him think that won't happen. That someone will represent him but infact that's not going to happen. No one can represent him on the day of the hearing because he's the only one that knows how his conditions affect him.

    What ever anyone says, it seems like you're going to do what you think is right, even if that means him losing the Tribunal.

    I'm out of here but i wish your friend good luck.
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • melissahicking2019melissahicking2019 Member Posts: 122 Courageous
    edited May 2019
    If the evidence is not applicable they are not going to take it into account. 
      Yes there is evidence dated around the time of appeal.

    there is also alot of evidence backing the long term illness which is relevant of the time of appeal because it proves the unlikleyness of any change at the time of appeal.

    From what iv been told, if it is relevant of the illness and proves a long term illness then it has to be taken into consideration.
  • melissahicking2019melissahicking2019 Member Posts: 122 Courageous
    edited May 2019
    its his decision. im helping him make the right decision... i would prefer him to attend, but with somebody by his side to help answer questions... I cannot go, But i will if it makes any difference to his case.. He wants a paperbased, I want him represented.But i also think he should be entitled a fair paperbased tribunal without having his chances ruined because of it being paperbased. Eitherway no matter what forum i go in the answers are all the same.

    many in favor of attending and many others agreeing paperbased offers the same chances with good evidence and good administration

    otherwise the process of a paperbased tribunal would indeed be unfair and a little skewed if a genuinely ill person could not have faith in the systems paperbased tribunals .

    in fact a paperbased tribunal would suggest that the panel are required to work that little bit harder to come to a professional and fair decision 

    and if that is not the case, then their is defiantly  something wrong with the decision process.


  • CockneyRebelCockneyRebel Member Posts: 5,258 Disability Gamechanger
    If you opt for a paper based hearing, it is not unheard of for the panel to defer and request that he attends. It may be to late but there is an option of a telephone hearing if that would be better for your friend
    Be all you can be, make  every day count. Namaste
  • melissahicking2019melissahicking2019 Member Posts: 122 Courageous
    yes iv convinced him to attend, we are going and i am going to be by his side. Also his 2 brothers are going to attend and offer witness statements to the fact that he require daily help from them ect.

    We are going to support him through the questioning at the tribunal. and anything he gets stuck with i will try and reassure him thats he can take his time to think and if he cant find an answer then its ok. and that he does not need to get worried. We can only do our best and thats all..

    If the tribunal refuse him the PIP he was already in receipt of until CRAPITA lied through their back teeth, Then my friend will become another unfortunate statistic that was genuinely ill but the system let him Down. When hes finally hospitalized they can give it him back..

    In the meantime if they refuse him the appeal, we will make a new claim for pip and we will continue to fight for him, As he requires home support not hospitalization, 

    But without PIP he cannot get a carer, a carer that indeed helped him make progress, the same progress that CRAPITA used against him.

    Its a horrible system and how they can do this to genuinely ill people is ridiculous.

    we can only hope the tribunal accept that his illnesses are long term and could not of been better at the time of appeal. Although a little improvement was noticeable in terms of mental health because he was being looked after daily , Does not mean a Clawed hand or dyslexia could of got better..

    For the DWP and CRAPITA to of not taken this into consideration just goes to show that they are doing every dirty trick in the book to get people off the sick..

    For years they have had to grind their teeth at the prospect of people not having to goto work and receive benefits while they themselves have to deal with those people and watch them receive hundreds and thousands of pounds for nothing but an illness, and now that this system has been introduced they use it as a passifier for all those years of hatred and can now watch those  same people suffer and go without...

    They offer little in terms of real help and every assessment and review is continually focus on getting the claimant of benefits at any cost, including lying through there back teeth and not admitting critical information at point awarding factors ect.

    Eitherway , what ever happens at this tribunal will reveal just how terrible they really are.

    thanks for everybody's help

    i will inform you all of the revealing after the tribunal.

    Mel.









  • melissahicking2019melissahicking2019 Member Posts: 122 Courageous
    If the evidence is not applicable they are not going to take it into account. 
    Matilda Posts: 2,571 Brian Blessed
    Hi @dafflover 

    It was the positive Tribunal decisions posted on here that encouraged me.  I think it's usually worth appealing despite the slight risk that claimants might lose their entire award.  65% of appeals succeed.

    I think what swung it for me was:

    - medical reports, though old ones
    - that I've had rheumatoid arthritis for nearly 30 years
    - before DLA/PIP changeover I was on DLA highest rates both components
       indefinitely 
    - that I had already been awarded PIP 11points daily living and 10 points mobility

    Were you on DLA before and did you ask for the medical reports from then to be included in your PIP application?

    Because of the Election, there are no MPs at the moment, only candidates.  After the Election you'll probably hear from your MP.

    Good luck with your appeal!
  • melissahicking2019melissahicking2019 Member Posts: 122 Courageous
    Is the new evidence applicable to the date of the assessment ?
    If not then the tribunal will not take it into consideration
    Matilda Posts: 2,571 Brian Blessed
    Hi @dafflover 

    It was the positive Tribunal decisions posted on here that encouraged me.  I think it's usually worth appealing despite the slight risk that claimants might lose their entire award.  65% of appeals succeed.

    I think what swung it for me was:

    - medical reports, though old ones
    - that I've had rheumatoid arthritis for nearly 30 years
    - before DLA/PIP changeover I was on DLA highest rates both components
       indefinitely 
    - that I had already been awarded PIP 11points daily living and 10 points mobility

    Were you on DLA before and did you ask for the medical reports from then to be included in your PIP application?

    Because of the Election, there are no MPs at the moment, only candidates.  After the Election you'll probably hear from your MP.

    Good luck with your appeal!
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