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Complaints about PIP assessments up 6,000 per cent in three years

GeraldGerald Member Posts: 214 Pioneering
Hi all do not know if you have seen this but it says it all as I can see about PIP                                                                                                   

The number of complaints to the government about the PIP assessment process has surged by more than 6,000 per cent in three years, prompting fresh concerns that the system is “flawed” and harming disabled people.

This marks a surge of 570 per cent in two years and 6,463 per cent in three years. The overall number of PIP claims has risen by 67 per cent since 2016.

Thousands of disabled people refused PIP claimants challenge the decision each year with 73% winning their appeals at an independent tribunal.  

Ian Lavery, the Labour MP who obtained the figures through a parliamentary question, said the current benefits system was “driving people into destitution”.

He said that in the year to March 2019, his office helped constituents win back a total of £275,011 in PIP claims and appeals, and that even the local authorities welfare support team were passing cases to his caseworkers.

A DWP spokesperson said: “We want the PIP assessment process to work well for everyone and have made significant improvements, including testing the video recording of assessments. This year complaints represented less than 1 per cent of all PIP assessments.”

Ken Butler DR UK’s Welfare Rights and Policy Adviser said – 

“The downplaying of the huge rise in PIP medical assessment complaints is appalling.  

The poor and inaccurate standards of PIP and ESA assessments have been continually criticised from their introduction. No less than 84% of social security appeals relate to PIP and ESA.

Eve if a complaint is not made directly to Atos or Capita, every challenge to a PIP decision is in effect a complaint against that individual PIP medical assessment.                                                                                                                                                                                        And this is the link for the last bit https://www.disabilityrightsuk.org/news/2019/may/complaints-about-pip-assessments-6000-cent-three-years

Replies

  • ThreesticksThreesticks Member Posts: 128 Pioneering
    Yes, all this Govern-ments chickens are coming home to roost. Thanks for this info and links ;)
    If you fight, you won't always win. But if you don't fight you will always always lose.
  • GeraldGerald Member Posts: 214 Pioneering
    Yes, all this Govern-ments chickens are coming home to roost. Thanks for this info and links ;)
    Hi Threesticks your welcome thanks 
  • twonkertwonker Member - under moderation Posts: 617 Pioneering
    But in all of that what must also be pointed out in defence is that those that 'win' at a Tribunal only represent less that 0.5% of the overall number of PIP claims made.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0 Listener
    Oh, I'll be the next to make a complaint about the assessor I had in April.
  • GeraldGerald Member Posts: 214 Pioneering
    Hi WF2k I wish I did that with the ? Hole I had.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0 Listener
    Yeah, I just need to figure out how to word it and what I should mention in the complaint, I mean the fact of the matter is that my award has gone from me being awarded enhanced in 2014 with 18 points in each to probably being awarded standard with only 8 points in each and the first award was based pretty much on my mental health where as this one is based on physical health.. He's claimed there's no evidence when there is, he's claimed I never stated things at the assessment when both myself and my Son did.. he's even claimed I've said things that I haven't.. so yeah. I wonder if he forgot that it was recorded lol.
  • ThreesticksThreesticks Member Posts: 128 Pioneering
    It's correct what it says in the report. If you make an MR, that's a complaint. So from what I've read on here,I'd say 6000% is an underestimation.

    If you fight, you won't always win. But if you don't fight you will always always lose.
  • axwy62axwy62 Member Posts: 140 Pioneering
    The nurse that assessed me couldn't see my wheelchair and, even though I remained in my chair throughout, imagined me walking more than 50 metres in a room less than 5 metres long - I'm sure I'd remember walking round in circles! I have my next assessment this afternoon, and I'm expecting more of the same.
  • GeraldGerald Member Posts: 214 Pioneering
    HI axwy62 well I have my day with the Tribunal today after it starting back in Feb 2018 to 17th may 2019 and that is after my assessment from DLA to PIP back in 2017 it one hell of pain in the A??. 
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0 Listener
    @axwy62 omg.. that's terrible! How the hell can they not see you sitting in a wheelchair, it's all mind boggling!

    @Gerald it's pretty crap really, there shouldn't be so many tribunals, they should be listening to people at the MR stage.
  • GeraldGerald Member Posts: 214 Pioneering
    Hi WF2k  I do not think that the DWP do not like going against Atos at the MR stage as that may show how bad a job there doing with the assessments Atos so keep paying them to do the job so bad and hope you give up before you get to the Tribunal .
  • ThreesticksThreesticks Member Posts: 128 Pioneering
    Gerald said:
    HI axwy62 well I have my day with the Tribunal today after it starting back in Feb 2018 to 17th may 2019 and that is after my assessment from DLA to PIP back in 2017 it one hell of pain in the A??. 
    Best of luck, remember they are only human, just like the rest of us ;)
    If you fight, you won't always win. But if you don't fight you will always always lose.
  • ThreesticksThreesticks Member Posts: 128 Pioneering
    axwy62 said:
    The nurse that assessed me couldn't see my wheelchair and, even though I remained in my chair throughout, imagined me walking more than 50 metres in a room less than 5 metres long - I'm sure I'd remember walking round in circles! I have my next assessment this afternoon, and I'm expecting more of the same.
    A friend of mine is wheelchair bound and cannot communicate at all, except for grunts and moans, The assessor said he could walk and talk with very little help, that's what his carer told me. My friend was summoned to the Jobcentre for UC . When he arrived, and they saw him, they were apologising to him and his Mum (his carer) for the inconvenience they caused.
    If you fight, you won't always win. But if you don't fight you will always always lose.
  • axwy62axwy62 Member Posts: 140 Pioneering
    I think some people genuinely believe my wheelchair is a fashion accessory! If you try to complain about these ‘errors’, it’s always that there’s no recording so it’s your word against theirs.
  • ThreesticksThreesticks Member Posts: 128 Pioneering
    axwy62 said:
    I think some people genuinely believe my wheelchair is a fashion accessory! If you try to complain about these ‘errors’, it’s always that there’s no recording so it’s your word against theirs.
    They wouldn't want to be video recorded, it wouldn't help their case now would it lol. You can audio record if you jump through their hoops to do so. But, they video record you as soon as you arrive, on their cctv.  
    If you fight, you won't always win. But if you don't fight you will always always lose.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0 Listener
    They really do need to start doing video recordings, I recorded my assessment with permission from Capita, so I do have evidence as to what I said and sort of how I was in my assessment (I was stuttering, forgetting things etc and my Son was having to help me).
  • axwy62axwy62 Member Posts: 140 Pioneering
    Well it’s done, and assuming the assessor is honest, it couldn’t have gone better. What goes in her report is beyond my control for now, but authorised or not, I have recordings just in case.
  • GeraldGerald Member Posts: 214 Pioneering
    axwy62 said:
    Well it’s done, and assuming the assessor is honest, it couldn’t have gone better. What goes in her report is beyond my control for now, but authorised or not, I have recordings just in case.
    Hi axwy62  I hope you did get a good assessor and get your pip but there are a lot of assessors out there that don't know the word honest if it hit them in face :*:*
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0 Listener
    Yeah, hope it went well.

    I need to try and stop feeling angry.. silly assessor trying to say I don't have mental health problems...  :#
  • twonkertwonker Member - under moderation Posts: 617 Pioneering
    axwy62 said:
    Well it’s done, and assuming the assessor is honest, it couldn’t have gone better. What goes in her report is beyond my control for now, but authorised or not, I have recordings just in case.
    How would you want to use that recording if it came to a MR or Tribunal hearing?
  • twonkertwonker Member - under moderation Posts: 617 Pioneering
    WF2k said:
    Yeah, hope it went well.

    I need to try and stop feeling angry.. silly assessor trying to say I don't have mental health problems...  :#
    Establishing that someone has a mental health problem is simply done using the Mental Status Examination process

     https://testandcalc.com/Richard/resources/Teaching_Resource_Mental_Status_Examination.pdf

    It's not entirely carried out by questioning but instead by watching. The assessor will try to justify their opinion by listening to what you say and how you look. Looking clean and tidy would not indicate a mental health problem etc 
  • GeraldGerald Member Posts: 214 Pioneering
    twonker said:
    WF2k said:
    Yeah, hope it went well.

    I need to try and stop feeling angry.. silly assessor trying to say I don't have mental health problems...  :#
    Establishing that someone has a mental health problem is simply done using the Mental Status Examination process

     https://testandcalc.com/Richard/resources/Teaching_Resource_Mental_Status_Examination.pdf

    It's not entirely carried out by questioning but instead by watching. The assessor will try to justify their opinion by listening to what you say and how you look. Looking clean and tidy would not indicate a mental health problem etc 
    twonker said:
    WF2k said:
    Yeah, hope it went well.

    I need to try and stop feeling angry.. silly assessor trying to say I don't have mental health problems...  :#
    Establishing that someone has a mental health problem is simply done using the Mental Status Examination process

     https://testandcalc.com/Richard/resources/Teaching_Resource_Mental_Status_Examination.pdf

    It's not entirely carried out by questioning but instead by watching. The assessor will try to justify their opinion by listening to what you say and how you look. Looking clean and tidy would not indicate a mental health problem etc 


    Hi twonker  So you go the assessor way with can read a road sign mental health problems and not the letters from a doctor that i was in counselling for my Severe Depression and Anxiety and that the Psychiatric medication i'm on is at the top dose that you can take  Know we wil go with the top test that the assessor as uesd the can read a road sign test that is a very well known mental health test so it must be how my doctor and counselling started i must have got the road sign test Wrong 
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0 Listener
    @twonker no offence but I have you on ignore for a reason, I already know how it works, I am not stupid, I've read what ilovecats and such have said in their posts. The assessor was looking at his laptop most of the time and you CAN'T possibly know how someone is 50% of the time by a 60 minute assessment, also everyone is different, plus he pretty much went against the first assessors report and ignored a GP letters, psychiatrist report/letter and so on. 
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0 Listener
    @Gerald I sent you an inbox with an apology.
  • GeraldGerald Member Posts: 214 Pioneering
    Hi WF2k there is no need to send me a apology after all that I had to put up with about this and there way the assessment is done for mental health is just wrong as how the hell can the assessor I had come up with is assessment after seeing me for 30 mins it is BS and then you get you cannot say a word about the assessor as knows all in 30 mins and then I end up with 19 months of hell and at one point thinking about ending it all so as far as I see the ? Hole can go to hell. sorry about the last bit but it gets me so mad and thinking that this is still going on to this day its just wrong.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0 Listener
    Yeah, I just felt bad for snapping at someone in your thread lol, but I've I've explained in my pm anyway.

    It's pretty degrading in all fairness, I'm sorry it affected you like that :( I'm glad you won your tribunal, not that you should have had to take it to a tribunal.
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    twonker said:
     Looking clean and tidy would not indicate a mental health problem etc 
    Totally disagree sorry. My daughter had a face to face assessment at home the first time i claimed for her. She was dressed perfectly because she's prompted by myself otherwise she wouldn't know or understand what to wear everyday. Her hair was perfect, as it always is. She showers/baths daily and either myself or my other daughter make sure the water is the correct temperature for her because she doesn't understand water temperature. Many times she's gone into the shower and it's either been too hot or too cold and she's had to shout for help. The way she looked didn't go against her and she scored points for needing prompting/assistance in dressing/undressing and washing/bathing.
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0 Listener
    I agree with Poppy.

    The thing is, I didn't look clean and tidy at my assessment, I hadn't showered for 2 - 3 weeks, my Son usually prompts me to shower and even then I don't always do it because I'm too tired, sore, don't feel like it etc. sometimes he literally has to nag me to shower or my Mum will ask what that smell is.. which is pretty embarrassing. I was also in my pj's and yet he claimed I was kempt, in appropriate clothing etc. So yeah I don't think it matters either way.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0 Listener
    I have no idea, it was a home assessment, I wouldn't attend a centre in pj's due to my anxiety. He made out I was bouncing my leg for 10 minutes, I was shaking for most of the assessment and was totally wiped out after it. Me stuttering and my son having to help me etc. has all been recorded anyway (with permission).

    Thanks for explaining @ilovecats
  • mercedesbdmercedesbd Member Posts: 109 Courageous
    axwy62 said:
    The nurse that assessed me couldn't see my wheelchair and, even though I remained in my chair throughout, imagined me walking more than 50 metres in a room less than 5 metres long - I'm sure I'd remember walking round in circles! I have my next assessment this afternoon, and I'm expecting more of the same.
    Did you complain and get another assesment?
  • twonkertwonker Member - under moderation Posts: 617 Pioneering
    twonker said:
     Looking clean and tidy would not indicate a mental health problem etc 
    Totally disagree sorry. My daughter had a face to face assessment at home the first time i claimed for her. She was dressed perfectly because she's prompted by myself otherwise she wouldn't know or understand what to wear everyday. Her hair was perfect, as it always is. She showers/baths daily and either myself or my other daughter make sure the water is the correct temperature for her because she doesn't understand water temperature. Many times she's gone into the shower and it's either been too hot or too cold and she's had to shout for help. The way she looked didn't go against her and she scored points for needing prompting/assistance in dressing/undressing and washing/bathing.
    Appearance does play an important part in assessing mental health. In my link above you will see what they are looking for.
    Obviously your daughter looking clean and tidy was down to you and as long as you can get the assessor to accept that then it would not go against her.
    If on the other hand you go into an assessment looking clean and tidy and no one with you and you not highlighting that to get into that condition required input from another then it would go against you. At the end of the day it is down to the assessor believing your statement.

  • twonkertwonker Member - under moderation Posts: 617 Pioneering
    ilovecats said:
    The MSE is a holistic overview of how you present at assessment in that moment only.

    Just because someone is having a good day and is able to have a shower and turn up looking clean does not mean they do not have mental health problems.

    Just because someone is able to converse well does not mean they don’t hear voices or feel suicidal. 

    Sorry but one of your ex colleagues did not think like that. I can accept it if there was no evidence to back it all up. But after submitting a 5 page report from the Memory Clinic, a Psychiatrists report and a repeat prescription list showing medication for depression along with a DWP doctor's report that awarded me another disability benefit actually confirming a serious mental health condition I was given countless reasons why I did not have a mental health problem. Clean and well dressed, good eye contact, was able to talk about my health problems, did not sweat, did not rock in the chair etc etc.. 
    I gave up after that with making any reference to mental health in following re-assessments believing that I would not be believed no matter what.

    Maybe however they thought I was playing  them?  
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