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Hi, I am new & looking for advice re how to prove how far I can walk re PiP assessment?

lleettlleett Member Posts: 3 Listener
I was recently reassessed for PiP, and they took money off my benefit because they said I did not appear breathless or in pain when assessed. This is in relation to the 'moving around' section, which due to back pain and breathlessness for a long time now I have not been able to walk further than around 80 meters without getting really breathless and also being in pain and having to stop, and as such my previous assessor said I couldn't walk more than 50- 200 meters. I have diabetes and an immune system condition and a bunch of other stuff that together mean I am very nauseus and fatigued a lot of the time, and my back is in a bad way, and I get breathless very, very easily. I also get a lot of chest infections. All of this has been provided to them in terms of medical evidence. I also suffer anxiety, and again they have ample evidence of this. My assessment also took place at my home, and yet despite all of that, they have incredibly claimed I can walk over 200 meters because the assessor did not observe me getting breathless or being in pain walking the *few meters* from my sofa to the my door to let her in. 

I can't believe they are doing this. I only got the letter yesterday when it was too late to call anywhere. I am wondering if anyone here has suffered a similar issue and has any advice? I particularly want to know if they can really just claim I can walk over 200 meters like this, but also how I can prove that I can't do this?

Any advice really very much appreciated!

Replies

  • Yvonne01Yvonne01 Member Posts: 8 Listener
    Who filled the form in for you, you need to reapply, and get in done at the Citizen s advice centre

  • thespicemanthespiceman Member Posts: 6,408 Disability Gamechanger

    Hello @lleett   Pleased to meet you

    Thank you for your post and sharing with the community.

    Sorry to hear this.

    I am one of the team of community champions. We guide, advise and help members.

    I know this is a problem that has occurred before. Many members questioning the same issues.

    With out any proof.  I do understand this myself.

    Have walking and mobility problems. Gave me a standard rate. Lost the car.

    I understand if your not happy. Please can I suggest any decision you can appeal.

    Complete a Mandatory Reconsideration.  We have lots of information on our website.  What to do next.

    I would speak to CAB for further advice.  They can help you with this. Have expertise and knowledge.

    Something to consider.

    Another suggestion is to contact your local MP. Many members have done that as well with a lot of positive results.

    Many MP's need to know what is happening to our community.

    I do know personally that many members have experienced many issues with assessments. You are not alone with this.

    We are here to help and be supportive.

    You also mentioned anxiety. I have mental health issues myself and have previously contacted local mental health charities to guide, advise and help me with any thing like this.

    The benefits and had much support with my mental health.

    Used this one last time if that helps you.

    https://www.richmondfellowship.org.uk.

    Something I know did help me.  To give you reassurance.

    Do take clientele with disabilities and other issues.

    Please if you need to know anything .  Please ask we are here to help and advise.  Some one will know a member of our team or a member of our community.

    Pleasure to meet you.

    Take care.

    @thespiceman


    Community Champion
    SCOPE Volunteer Award Engaging Communities 2019
    Mental Health advice, guidance and information to all members
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  • Yvonne01Yvonne01 Member Posts: 8 Listener
    Hi Spice, how are you, I am new to this group only just joined, but it seems quite good!!!! Xxxxx

  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger

    Re-applying if you've been refused is not good advice. This is because if you re-apply and use the same evidence you previously used, you'll likely see another refusal. Always request a Mandatory Reconsideration (MR) then Tribunal if that fails.

    You have 1 month from the date of the decision to request the MR. You should put this in writing stating where you think you should have scored those points and your reasons why. Adding 2-3 examples of what happened the last time you attempted that activity for each descriptor that applies to you.

    Saying you can walk 80metres will score you just 4 points, which isn't enough to get an award for mobility alone. Have a look at this link it will give you more understanding of the PIP descriptors and what they mean.


    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • sheZZasheZZa Member Posts: 232 Pioneering
    @poppy123456
    thank you for the above link re pip descriptors. I have just read them and I score high on both the mobility and daily living descriptors (I think anyway). However, after reading through them I am not sure that I have completed my review form with enough information. I have more understanding of them now though and feel more confident  on how to complete the descriptors if and when I apply for a mandatory reconsideration. 
  • twonkertwonker Member - under moderation Posts: 617 Pioneering
    lleett said:
    I was recently reassessed for PiP, and they took money off my benefit because they said I did not appear breathless or in pain when assessed. This is in relation to the 'moving around' section, which due to back pain and breathlessness for a long time now I have not been able to walk further than around 80 meters without getting really breathless and also being in pain and having to stop, and as such my previous assessor said I couldn't walk more than 50- 200 meters. I have diabetes and an immune system condition and a bunch of other stuff that together mean I am very nauseus and fatigued a lot of the time, and my back is in a bad way, and I get breathless very, very easily. I also get a lot of chest infections. All of this has been provided to them in terms of medical evidence. I also suffer anxiety, and again they have ample evidence of this. My assessment also took place at my home, and yet despite all of that, they have incredibly claimed I can walk over 200 meters because the assessor did not observe me getting breathless or being in pain walking the *few meters* from my sofa to the my door to let her in. 

    I can't believe they are doing this. I only got the letter yesterday when it was too late to call anywhere. I am wondering if anyone here has suffered a similar issue and has any advice? I particularly want to know if they can really just claim I can walk over 200 meters like this, but also how I can prove that I can't do this?

    Any advice really very much appreciated!
    Proving the distance that you can walk reliably is almost impossible. If you are lucky you may have had an assessment of your needs carried out by Social Services. You can try to use that report. You may have been assessed at a hospital for walking distance and ability due to maybe an accident or injury.

    At best you can describe what happened the last time you walked beyond that distance.
  • Yvonne01Yvonne01 Member Posts: 8 Listener
    Apply for a Reassesment, and before you go into it this time, make sure you are ready and prepared, for what ever comes your way!!!!! XXxxx


  • Yvonne01Yvonne01 Member Posts: 8 Listener
    I got mine done at The Citizens Advice Bureau, and they made sure I was going to score the 10 points necessary on my answers, to be entitled to the benefit, Without making False Statements!!!


  • tinka1992tinka1992 Member Posts: 97 Connected
    Mine was done my citizens advice the assessor report was was shocking but not yet had decison 
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    Yvonne01 said:
    Apply for a Reassesment, and before you go into it this time, make sure you are ready and prepared, for what ever comes your way!!!!! XXxxx


    You can't just have another assessment after the first one, it doesn't work like that.
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • zakbloodzakblood Member Posts: 419 Pioneering
    i had medical evidence of my lack of ability to do much regarding standing, walking, sitting or sleeping with a long term 20 plus years medical list of conditions, but still failed with a 0 score, with 5 previous passes, seems sometimes no amount of detail, or evidence matters on the day, it's down to luck, how the assessor feels and how they view you, with sarcastic remarks like they saw you walk into the assessment center on there own unaided from the car park, and can talk with others in the waiting room and sits comfortably on the chairs provided, no matter what you say or do or have wrote or what medical proof you have provided, as mostly it doesn't get read, so good luck on the MR and Tribunal if it doesn't get over turned etc
  • cristobalcristobal Member Posts: 965 Disability Gamechanger
    @yvonne01 - you say that the CAB 'made sure I was going to score the 10 points necessary on my answers, to be entitled to the benefit'.'

    Are you able to give some detail on this?

    A lot of posters, including the OP of this thread, and myself, have difficulty with the appropriate evidence about how far they are able to walk and it would be really helpful to know what the CAB advised....
  • CockneyRebelCockneyRebel Member Posts: 5,258 Disability Gamechanger
    If you have any award in payment then you cannot reapply other than if your condition worstens and you enter a change of circumstance.
    As Poppy says you need to ask for an MR and then tribunal if necessary.
    For a descriptor to apply it must be completed to an acceptable standard, in a reasonable time ( twice as long as an able bodied person ), Repeatedly ( as often as is necessary and for the majority of time.

    You will need to give examples

    . Moving around.

    a. Can stand and then move more than 200 metres, either aided or unaided.  0 points.
    Can do so once with frequent rests and then unable to repeat for the rest of the day
    Therefore a. cannot apply as not repeatable or for the majority of time

    b. Can stand and then move more than 50 metres but no more than 200 metres, either aided or unaided.  4 points.
    Can do so once with frequent rests and then unable to repeat for the rest of the day
    Therefore b. cannot apply as not repeatable or for the majority of time

    c. Can stand and then move unaided more than 20 metres but no more than 50 metres.  8 points.
    Cannot do so unaided as I need a walking stick/rollator
    Therefore c. cannot apply as I need to use an aid

    d. Can stand and then move using an aid or appliance more than 20 metres but no more than 50 metres.  10 points.
    Can do so but will take at least 2 minutes to complete and then need to rest before repeating
    Therefore d.cannot apply as cannot complete in a timely manner

    e. Can stand and then move more than 1 metre but no more than 20 metres, either aided or unaided.  12 points.
    f. Cannot, either aided or unaided, –
    (i) stand; or
    (ii) move more than 1 metre.  12 points.


    .



    Be all you can be, make  every day count. Namaste
  • twonkertwonker Member - under moderation Posts: 617 Pioneering
    You can put that on the claim form and tell the assessor at the assessment but if you are not believed that's it!
  • CockneyRebelCockneyRebel Member Posts: 5,258 Disability Gamechanger
    It is very difficult to challenge an opinion. It is simple to prove that you can do something but the opposite is much harder
    Be all you can be, make  every day count. Namaste
  • zakbloodzakblood Member Posts: 419 Pioneering
    it is hard, as it's done on looks alone and how you are only on the day, with no other days taken into consideration, with next to no medical details taken into consideration either, and is for me the main reasons it's not no longer fit for purpose either, when a tribunal over turns so many after looking into the medical facts provided and makes a judgement after the facts, see's you on a totally different day, under even more stress and makes 82% of the time, a different judgement call and tears apart the old report making it null and void, opinions are just that, there opinions, if it was for your car, your dog or one of your kids if you have any? you asks for a second opinion, but on the day, this is taken away from you, and can turn your life upside down, just because, you were or may have been, having a good or better day, so not seeing you at your worse or in the correct light of day, no matter what you put on the forms saying other wise, it's a judgement call based solely on looks and that single persons opinions, purely on looks "cannot apply as not repeatable or for the majority of time", so in other words, you can't be ill on Monday if your fine on Tuesday, which makes a mockery out of the whole point of going to hospital and getting treatment, scans and reports which contradicts there opinion and your own health professionals and those who are looking after you, 20 years on incapacity and i'm still shocked and horrified on how the system is biased and so unfair and well wrong, but Tribunal is the answer to most, as long as you have the strength to do it and the will to keep on the long road, which gives more stress, worsen's your overall health, just to prove all along, one person was wrong
  • cristobalcristobal Member Posts: 965 Disability Gamechanger
    @zakblood - I don't disagree that some assessments can be done badly - mine was.

    However, just to keep a sense of objectivity, I think that you need to take some care when saying that a tribunal "overturns so many after looking into the medical facts provided" and makes a different judgement 82% of the time.

    I didn't get as far as a tribunal but I understand that you are allowed to submit additional evidence. Amongst the 82% will inevitably be some where the claimant should have sent evidence with their initial claim, didn't, and submitted this later to the tribunal. I'm not a fan of Capita or Atos but you can't always assume that it's their fault.
  • twonkertwonker Member - under moderation Posts: 617 Pioneering
    ilovecats said:
    So many people turn up to a PIP assessment with zero evidence and then are shocked that the assessor just does not take them at their word. 
    The assessors that I have had the misfortune to meet have refused to accept evidence which was offered to them on the day. Their stock answer was the same - 'the back office deals with that'.
    Why do assessors base their opinion on that snapshot of time? Having a good day - then all of your days must be good! 
    What evidence would you want to see that proves that the walking distance is below 20 metres? Do assessors ever consider variability or even reliability? In my assessments neither has featured in the face to face assessment process - no questions were ever asked.
    As for evidence submitted to the DWP following the return of the claim form (to ensure that the form is returned within the time limit whilst still gathering the evidence) I honestly don't believe that the assessor either reads it or if they do, they ignore it.
  • wilkowilko Member Posts: 2,194 Disability Gamechanger
    Taking new or extra evidence on the day of your assessment is not a good idea as the assessor has all the evidence that was sent with your application from, and expecting the assessor to stop and read the extra information and give you a fair assessment is asking a lot. If the information is available at the time of your application being filled in and sent enclose the extra evidence and information otherwise put a note in with your application saying more information, evidence to follow or will be given in at assessment. Reading about the descriptors and filling in the application form sending correct and enough evidence to support your claim should give, get the correct award.
  • cristobalcristobal Member Posts: 965 Disability Gamechanger
    wilko said:
    " Reading about the descriptors and filling in the application form sending correct and enough evidence to support your claim should give, get the correct award."
    Totally agree - do it right first time!
  • Chloe_ScopeChloe_Scope Scope Posts: 10,662 Disability Gamechanger
    Hi @lleett, how are you getting on with your appeal? Is there anything else we can do to help?
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    Scope

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  • twonkertwonker Member - under moderation Posts: 617 Pioneering
    cristobal said:
    wilko said:
    " Reading about the descriptors and filling in the application form sending correct and enough evidence to support your claim should give, get the correct award."
    Totally agree - do it right first time!
    Oh I too agree. But many claimants have little insight into what is required both on the form and the evidence needed. Not everybody understands fully the jargon used. Hence why probably 48% fail and only 52% get the award they are entitled to first time. That is also assuming that the assessor does their job properly and the DWP actually read and understand the evidence sent in. 
  • cristobalcristobal Member Posts: 965 Disability Gamechanger
    edited May 2019
    twonker said:

    Oh I too agree. But many claimants have little insight into what is required both on the form and the evidence needed. Not everybody understands fully the jargon used. Hence why probably 48% fail and only 52% get the award they are entitled to first time. That is also assuming that the assessor does their job properly and the DWP actually read and understand the evidence sent in. 

    @twonker @yadnad - so what should they do then?

    Any positive advice other than giving reasons why claims fail? (and having the obligatory pop at the assessor!)

  • twonkertwonker Member - under moderation Posts: 617 Pioneering
    cristobal said:
    twonker said:

    Oh I too agree. But many claimants have little insight into what is required both on the form and the evidence needed. Not everybody understands fully the jargon used. Hence why probably 48% fail and only 52% get the award they are entitled to first time. That is also assuming that the assessor does their job properly and the DWP actually read and understand the evidence sent in. 

    @twonker @yadnad - so what should they do then?

    Any positive advice other than giving reasons why claims fail? (and having the obligatory pop at the assessor!)

    The assessors deserve every bit of criticism given. If they cleaned up their act in every respect then trust would be restored. 
    OK reasons why claims are awarded? Do exactly as Wilko says to which I agree. 
    And along the way just ignore those that through no fault of theirs make a hash of the claim in all ways including the assessment? They don't count because everybody should be able to follow the claiming procedure to the letter
    Those who fail - what should they do? Appeal that's all that is left for them. Ignore the stress and anxiety that they have to suffer for 12+ months and lack of money. It's their own fault isn't it? They should have followed the claiming procedure to the letter and by doing so would not have had the stress and anxiety. Oh what a perfect world we all live in.

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