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PIP Mobility - Psychological Distress

aspieangieaspieangie Member Posts: 19 Listener
Hi there,

I hope it's okay to post this, just looking for some advice/encouragement.

My carer and I have just started the Appeals process for the Mobility Component of PIP, specifically 'Planning and Following Journeys', 'Descriptor F', worth 12 points (Cannot follow the route of a familiar journey without another person, an assistance dog or an orientation aid)

We started this appeal because the Decision Maker has said that the evidence I have submitted is insufficient, however, I have extensive medical evidence which discusses my mental and developmental disabilities and the difficulties I face, and in one of my letters from my Psychologist, she has written:

"I write in relation to Angela's application for the Mobility component of PIP. Angela always attends clinic appointments in the company of her carer/partner. He accompanies Angela to all of her clinical appointments, and on daily errands. The purpose of this support is to help Angela manager her anxiety which can be the source of significant psychological distress. I understand that this is the case for any journey, be that using a very familiar route/destination/locality, or to an unfamiliar destination. and also, "It is likely that these difficulties have been present throughout Angela's life, to varying degrees of intensity, due to trauma in the early part of her life. It is therefore reasonable to assume that these difficulties in going outside of her home independently are likely to be persistent, to varying degrees, across her lifespan", also, "My opinion is that treatment will be focused on managing lifelong difficulties as opposed to providing a cure/complete resolution." to end, she writes, "I would therefore be grateful that you give due consideration to Angela's psychological distress associated with needing to leave her home environment. This distress is managed by her reliance on support to undertake all journeys"

After being sent all of my medical evidence, the Decision Maker came back with this:
"You said you have difficulty planning and following journeys.The evidence available is insufficient in awarding a descriptor that would suggest you would have experienced overwhelming psychological distress, with symptoms so severe that they would have left you unable to function. I decided you can plan and follow the route of a journey unaided."

Do you think I fulfil the requirement for Descriptor F? We thought I did, hence trying to initiate this process over a year ago, but DWP have begun to make me self-doubt everything and it's making me even more stressed and ill.

I have been in contact with my local MP and the CAB and they have been helpful, and I have an appointment with the CAB in 6 weeks.

Thanks in advance, any help would be very appreciated!

Replies

  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 587 Listener
    @aspieangie yeah there's a bug on the site where you end up with multiple threads, I usually just flag them and put duplicate in the comment box :)
  • aspieangieaspieangie Member Posts: 19 Listener
  • aspieangieaspieangie Member Posts: 19 Listener
    my post went up twice
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 587 Listener
    Click the flag button at the bottom of the comment box, bottom left, select report and then type duplicate and send, I think I already reported this one for you :)
  • aspieangieaspieangie Member Posts: 19 Listener
    WF2k said:
    Click the flag button at the bottom of the comment box, bottom left, select report and then type duplicate and send, I think I already reported this one for you :)
    Thanks I managed to do it on the other post, I hope they only delete one of them )
  • aspieangieaspieangie Member Posts: 19 Listener
    ilovecats said:
    If you are unable to go out of the house on the majority of days due to OPD then it’s E not F.
    What's OPD? E is "Cannot undertake any journey because it would cause overwhelming psychological distress to the claimant" - I do go out of the house though, just not alone - I need my carer there 
  • aspieangieaspieangie Member Posts: 19 Listener
    ilovecats said:
    After reading what your psychologist has written, it supports that you have lifelong mental health issues causing you difficulties and they confirm that these will continue throughout your life causing you distress, however they have not really written anything that would imply OPD.  They wrote ‘significant distress’ which for PIP a lot of people claim to have but the DWP are quite strict on the criteria.

    If they had written something like ‘She suffers severe emotional trauma every time she tries to leave the house which had led to the need to be accompanied on every journey, due to the severeity of her distress leaving her vulnerable and unable to safely cope’ that would have been harder for them to say no to. If you catch my drift.
    Oh okay. Thanks - so the above quote from my Psychologist would fulfil Descriptor E, not F? How does one fulfil descriptor F? Because I feel like I do meet Descriptor F - I cannot follow the route of a familiar journey without another person. 

    My local MP did say to get a letter from my GP and/or a Written Rebuttal against DWP. I think I will need to get this done ASAP!
  • aspieangieaspieangie Member Posts: 19 Listener
    ilovecats said:
    What were you actually awarded?

    What your psychologist has written does not really imply OPD to the standard DWP would likely accept though it does imply F would be more acceptable if OPD was proved.

    If you dont don’t have an award in mobility then I would focus on providing evidence that you suffer OPD and then B, E or F would apply.

    If you were awarded E, then they are already accepting that you suffer OPD, but something you said has made them think that you are not able to go out on the majority of days due to OPD.

    B is an unusual descriptor because it means that you have OPD when trying to get out the door but with prompting for every journey you can overcome it and continue without someone present for the whole journey (very rarely awarded now)
    I get Enhanced Daily Living at 14 points and they scored me 0 for Mobility. 

    I will try and get a letter from my GP which backs up what my Psychologist has written but say that it does cause OPD and this is what the Psychologist meant.

    My diagnoses are: Aspergers, Complex PTSD, Social Anxiety Disorder, Dyspraxia, Sensory Processing Disorder and Depression, and they have been sent all of these diagnosis letters along with Occupational Therapy letters.

    B is indeed an unusual one but wouldn't apply to me because I can't go out of the house alone and no amount of prompting could make me. 
  • Chloe_ScopeChloe_Scope Scope Posts: 10,652 Disability Gamechanger
    Hi @aspieangie, I have removed the duplicate post and thanks to @WF2k for reporting it :)
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  • ladygonegagaladygonegaga Member Posts: 11 Courageous
    Hi, This is the part that I am having problems with also and I am now in the process of going to tribunal. What I do not understand about this OPD is if you google OPD it is only found in the context of PIP nowhere else? So how would / could anyone have or get a diagnosis with OPD??
  • aspieangieaspieangie Member Posts: 19 Listener
    Hi, This is the part that I am having problems with also and I am now in the process of going to tribunal. What I do not understand about this OPD is if you google OPD it is only found in the context of PIP nowhere else? So how would / could anyone have or get a diagnosis with OPD??
    Have they awarded you 0 points for mobility as well?

    That's what I don't get either. I wonder if anyone has been awarded descriptor f without having 'OPD' written down.. that what I'd like to know. Would make me feel a bit less worried about my tribunal
  • aspieangieaspieangie Member Posts: 19 Listener
    ilovecats said:
    Hi, This is the part that I am having problems with also and I am now in the process of going to tribunal. What I do not understand about this OPD is if you google OPD it is only found in the context of PIP nowhere else? So how would / could anyone have or get a diagnosis with OPD??
    Have they awarded you 0 points for mobility as well?

    That's what I don't get either. I wonder if anyone has been awarded descriptor f without having 'OPD' written down.. that what I'd like to know. Would make me feel a bit less worried about my tribunal
    They have and I used to award it as well but normally for cognitive deficits. Normally E is the more common for mental health and OPD. I personally used to find that F would be awarded were there was a real and present risk of violence relating to mental health. 
    Violence because of their mental health condition? Would this be the case for autism too? As violent behaviour comes from both my Complex PTSD and Aspergers, something Psychologists have also written about in my letters
  • Chloe_ScopeChloe_Scope Scope Posts: 10,652 Disability Gamechanger
    Hi @ladygonegaga and welcome to the community! I'm sorry you have had to take your claim to tribunal, do you require any support around this?
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  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    My daughter was awarded 12 points in following and planning a journey and she doesn't suffer from OPD.
    Proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice I have given to members here on the community.
  • aspieangieaspieangie Member Posts: 19 Listener
    My daughter was awarded 12 points in following and planning a journey and she doesn't suffer from OPD.
    Thanks for your reply. It's good to know it can be awarded without OPD. Do you mind my asking what got her awarded it?
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    She has autism, learning disability and social anxiety disorder but that's irrelevant here really because PIP isn't awarded based on a diagnosis. She was awarded because of how her conditions affect her. You definitely can't compare 2 people.
    Proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice I have given to members here on the community.
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    She was awarded it after the first time i applied and at that point we didn't have a ASD diagnosis, even though she was almost 18.
    Proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice I have given to members here on the community.
  • aspieangieaspieangie Member Posts: 19 Listener
    She was awarded it after the first time i applied and at that point we didn't have a ASD diagnosis, even though she was almost 18.
    I wasn't referring to her diagnoses and I'm not trying to compare people. I realise conditons are different for everybody. But people with Social Anxiety Disorder can share difficulties, same with ASD. I also have Social Anxiety Disorder and ASD. I wasn't diagnosed with Asperger's until I was 28 years old. I'm just trying to work out what DWP /the Tribunal take into account when deciding whether to award or not. If I tried to appeal when I had no medical evidence or diagnoses I wouldn't get very far.
  • cristobalcristobal Member Posts: 966 Disability Gamechanger
    edited June 2019
    I don't really understand this 'OPD' thing and I've stopped trying to understand it. Makes my head spin.

    However if I remember correctly I scored 12 points because the assessor concluded I can't find my way about. It was a good spot by the assessor as I'd ticked 'Not applicable' and didn't realise I had a problem. So a big 'well done' to them.....

    Sorry if this really confuses things or if I'm contradicting someone  but it would seem that you don't always have to have the OPD...or I didn't seem to...

    Good luck with your appeal anyway....


  • aspieangieaspieangie Member Posts: 19 Listener
    cristobal said:
    I don't really understand this 'OPD' thing and I've stopped trying to understand it. Makes my head spin.

    However if I remember correctly I scored 12 points because the assessor concluded I can't find my way about. It was a good spot by the assessor as I'd ticked 'Not applicable' and didn't realise I had a problem. So a big 'well done' to them.....

    Sorry if this really confuses things or if I'm contradicting someone  but it would seem that you don't always have to have the OPD...

    Good luck with your appeal anyway....


    Thanks for your reply. I'm not understanding it either. It's good to know you can be awarded F without OPD. My Autism assessment and Dyspraxia assessment go into great detail about my cognitive abilities, thinking, learning, concentrating, my difficulties with understanding instructions, working out directions etc, and other difficulties so hopefully those will be enough. 
  • aspieangieaspieangie Member Posts: 19 Listener
    ilovecats said:
    ilovecats said:
    Hi, This is the part that I am having problems with also and I am now in the process of going to tribunal. What I do not understand about this OPD is if you google OPD it is only found in the context of PIP nowhere else? So how would / could anyone have or get a diagnosis with OPD??
    Have they awarded you 0 points for mobility as well?

    That's what I don't get either. I wonder if anyone has been awarded descriptor f without having 'OPD' written down.. that what I'd like to know. Would make me feel a bit less worried about my tribunal
    They have and I used to award it as well but normally for cognitive deficits. Normally E is the more common for mental health and OPD. I personally used to find that F would be awarded were there was a real and present risk of violence relating to mental health. 
    Violence because of their mental health condition? Would this be the case for autism too? As violent behaviour comes from both my Complex PTSD and Aspergers, something Psychologists have also written about in my letters
    Yes, ASD can cause behaviour that would warrant an F.
    Thanks this has helped a lot. I'll ask my carer if he can help me go through my medical letters later so we can try and work out where we are
  • Pipquestions2Pipquestions2 Member Posts: 92 Pioneering
    I'm sort of in a similar boat to you and the E/F and OPD descriptors is quite confusing, I had troubles with it aswell. @ilovecats and @poppy123456 helped explain it a bit to me. They said I should be F because I can't go out alone and when I'm around strangers alone I can get aggressive/violent and lose control rather than E which I originally thought.

    My diagnosis is just severe social anxiety but everyone that gets involved thinks I have aspergers/autism but I failed the tests for that so  I dunno, I think I probably have it somewhere deep down but it's a specific case (no sensory issues etc) so I can't seem to pass the test so they just lump it down to anxiety.

    So based off what they said to me and what you've written I think we could/should both get 11F
  • aspieangieaspieangie Member Posts: 19 Listener
    Yes it is, that's good they have been helpful to you as well. Anxiety can be very debilitating and really difficult to live with.

    Good luck with yours! I'm hoping we both get F :) 
  • Pipquestions2Pipquestions2 Member Posts: 92 Pioneering
    Yes it is, that's good they have been helpful to you as well. Anxiety can be very debilitating and really difficult to live with.

    Good luck with yours! I'm hoping we both get F :) 
    Hello, I scored 12 points today so @ilovecats and @poppy123456 were correct. 

    I have no physical mobility problems and managed to get F. So it's definitely possible. Was given 0 for both at assessment and ended up with daily living rate and enhanced mobility 
  • Chloe_ScopeChloe_Scope Scope Posts: 10,652 Disability Gamechanger
    That's great news @Pipquestions2! Thank you for sharing this with us!
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  • aspieangieaspieangie Member Posts: 19 Listener
    Yes it is, that's good they have been helpful to you as well. Anxiety can be very debilitating and really difficult to live with.

    Good luck with yours! I'm hoping we both get F :) 
    Hello, I scored 12 points today so @ilovecats and @poppy123456 were correct. 

    I have no physical mobility problems and managed to get F. So it's definitely possible. Was given 0 for both at assessment and ended up with daily living rate and enhanced mobility 
    Hi Pip that's great well done. Did you have to go to Tribunal? Hopefully I have the same outcome!
  • Pipquestions2Pipquestions2 Member Posts: 92 Pioneering
    Yes it is, that's good they have been helpful to you as well. Anxiety can be very debilitating and really difficult to live with.

    Good luck with yours! I'm hoping we both get F :) 
    Hello, I scored 12 points today so @ilovecats and @poppy123456 were correct. 

    I have no physical mobility problems and managed to get F. So it's definitely possible. Was given 0 for both at assessment and ended up with daily living rate and enhanced mobility 
    Hi Pip that's great well done. Did you have to go to Tribunal? Hopefully I have the same outcome!
    Yup, scored 0 for both at assessment. Done paper appeal they said they wanted to see me in person. Went to oral appeal at tribunal and won 10 points daily living and 12 points mobility 
  • aspieangieaspieangie Member Posts: 19 Listener
    Forgot to say that I was awarded 12 points for Mobility for Planning and Following a route of a journey. Thanks to everyone for their help, and good luck to anyone going through the same! 
  • Chloe_ScopeChloe_Scope Scope Posts: 10,652 Disability Gamechanger
    Thank you for updating us @aspieangie and congratulations! This is amazing news!
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  • aspieangieaspieangie Member Posts: 19 Listener
    Thank you for updating us @aspieangie and congratulations! This is amazing news!
    Thanks Chloe, I have enhanced on both for an ongoing period now :) 
  • Chloe_ScopeChloe_Scope Scope Posts: 10,652 Disability Gamechanger
    That's great! :)
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  • Pipquestions2Pipquestions2 Member Posts: 92 Pioneering
    Forgot to say that I was awarded 12 points for Mobility for Planning and Following a route of a journey. Thanks to everyone for their help, and good luck to anyone going through the same! 
    Well done 😊
  • rethgilrethgil Member Posts: 1 Listener
    Hi
    Can someone PLEEEEASE tell me what year the above happened? I think I should appeal myself as I am in a similar situation, but the recent changes they made to PIP assessments regarding mobility points and anxiety related/OPD symptoms makes me think it wouldnt be worth my while. But the above posts from AspieAngie give me hope and suggest otherwise, if it happened in 2018 or 2019, after the changes were made.

    But if the posts were made before 2017, it would be different. For whatever reason, there are no year markers on the website indicating when posts were made, hence me asking direct. Hope nobody minds this!
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    rethgil said:
    Hi
    Can someone PLEEEEASE tell me what year the above happened? I think I should appeal myself as I am in a similar situation, but the recent changes they made to PIP assessments regarding mobility points and anxiety related/OPD symptoms makes me think it wouldnt be worth my while. But the above posts from AspieAngie give me hope and suggest otherwise, if it happened in 2018 or 2019, after the changes were made.

    But if the posts were made before 2017, it would be different. For whatever reason, there are no year markers on the website indicating when posts were made, hence me asking direct. Hope nobody minds this!
    Hi,

    This thread is from  2019 but you can't compare yourself to another person because we're all affected differently by these conditions. You really should get some face to face advice from an agency near you.
    Proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice I have given to members here on the community.
  • Chloe_ScopeChloe_Scope Scope Posts: 10,652 Disability Gamechanger
    Welcome to the community @rethgil!

    If you have any questions of your own, you can start your own thread here and we'll be able to offer some support and guidance. :)
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