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PIP Tribunal - Info

cristobalcristobal Member Posts: 968 Disability Gamechanger
HI everyone,

'Law in Action', currently being broadcast on Radio 4 has a piece on PIP tribunals.

Very interesting - will be available on iplayer later.

PS It's a few minutes in, immediately after Julian Assange...


  • Adrian_ScopeAdrian_Scope Testing team Posts: 7,997

    Scope community team

    Thanks @cristobal, I missed this yesterday but will take a listen on catch up later. Did you find it interesting?
    Senior Community Partner
  • cristobalcristobal Member Posts: 968 Disability Gamechanger
    edited June 2019
    @Adrian_Scope It was interesting - I haven't had to go to tribunal so didn't know a lot about it'

    Had interviews with some claimants, and also one of the judges...

    Seems to be quite informal - one took place across a desk; one was in a magistrates court...

    Judge said that in about 2/3 cases the original decision is overturned - but difficult to tell exactly whether this is due to the original decision being 'wrong' or the claimant submitting additional evidence.
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 6,554 Disability Gamechanger
    One of the great myths repeatedly perpetrated by DWP over the years is that tribunals are largely won because of “new” evidence presented on the day. I doubt you’d find a welfare rights officer in the country who would agree with that. 52% of disability benefit claims succeed with no medical evidence at all according to DWPs own figures. So, what exactly is this “new” evidence and who is asserting it as such? The sheer size of appeal papers suggests that in almost all cases any supplementary medical or other evidence has been presented well in advance. It’s rare for example to get PIP appeal papers with less than 150 pages and anyone can figure out that if a claim pack is 50 pages; an HCP report 30-40 depending on the benefit and a DWP sub about 8-10 then the rest isn’t going to be accounted for by MR notices and the like. 

    The problem is that culturally that extra evidence is ignored in preference to even the most comically ludicrous HCP reports at every stage bar appeal. DWP can review a case which has been appealed every time you send in new evidence and there’s no limit on that. They decline to do so and prefer to let it go to appeal and rely on the hairy old “ah, new evidence” argument. How would they know? Even now, presenting officers are not present at most hearings and when they are they’re not the original DM so at best what they mean is “new to them”. By and large that’s even more true than you think it is as many POs don’t even review the appeal papers until they’re at the venue and just as many turn up for a day out with no appeal osiers at all and beg the clerk to give them a copy. They’re probably the least likely people to report back that a piece of evidence which was there on day 1 was the thing which swung the appeal because they simply won’t have read that deeply in most cases.

    It says much that the judge put forward talks of 2/3 overturn rate when for PIP the most recent figure is 76% and rising. 

    What tends to swing things on the day is either a well presented case or simply a proper review of all the evidence and the opportunity for the claimant to clarify anything ambiguous. I simply have no recall in 33 years of having a case where something new on the day changed the outcome. Proper consideration is what changes the outcome. 
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