long term unemployed through illness

zakblood

well this year up to yet as been my anno horribilis,

the amount of things that changed, so a brief history of myself and background.

left school in 1982 and worked full time until xmas 1999, so not a long working history, cut short by a back issue that went on to give more more side issues what now the back bone problem is no longer there, i'm left with long term muscle weakness which should be fixed by physio in the next 2 to 3 years and all the side effects of long term tablet taking, plus some complex anxiety issues.

so while i've only ever worked in the building trade, today it's a totally different world, the job market seems to be wanting a card now to prove you can do anything, even if you have done it for years in the past, so anything that was open to you, is now closed without first paying to get a card, then having no experience either which is relevant or in the last 3 to 5 years etc, so the door closes again on, if you have the card or not.

catch 22 it seems and your stuck in a loop, without the relevant card, you won't get a interview, and if you do get a interview as you have no previous work experience in the last 3 to 5 years, you fall at the 2nd hurdle, which make me wonder how those who go inside for a crime even ever get a job or chance.

so a change of job role, so i switched to apply for the caring role, and failed in 20 odd tries, as no relevant experience, even though they ask for none or NVQ's etc, as while they say there desirable there not a must, but seems again those with them and experience get them first, no matter if your suitable or not, so again falling at the 1st of 2nd hurdle, so then try building maintenance, and yes you guess it, with no experience in the last few years, no one will willing to give you a try.

so not only is my age against me, the lack of experience and suitable qualification, but this is a merry go round, as most have already almost said, if you gain the qualification, your age and lack of experience won't help.

so unskilled jobs, seems they want the younger school leavers as cheaper, plain and simple.

so while i'm waiting for tribunal, i've got my self a work coach and going to try for everything i can, and see where that takes me, but don't hold out any luck, as it seems the deck is stacked well against the long term unemployed, unless you want to work voluntary to gain the experience which is about the only option left open, then still you have to pay to get the qualification, and still have no idea if that will lead to a job in the end, so tread carefully and chose wisely.

and in the end, don't give up, as it's not how many times you fail that matters, like in life, it's how many times you keep trying that matters in the end.   

Ails

Hi @zakblood,
Thanks for sharing your work experiences with us.  Sorry to hear so many things have gone against you in getting employment, but that is great that you have a work coach now.  I hope they help and wish you well with it.  I know how you feel as up to 2015 I was working in admin in various temping jobs after leaving a job I was in for 8 years (long story that I will leave for another time) and then I went into hospital for an hip replacement which has changed my life for the worse!  I have even more pain than I did before the op and have less mobility as can't drive, have to use my wheelchair outside, etc.  This gets me very down at times as I have to rely more on my husband to help me and I do miss working.  I did manage to get a job in 2017 working as a Support Worker in an After School Club which I loved.  It was a part-time post and was costing a fortune in petrol to get to as I lived a distance away!  Eventually I had to leave as we had another house move even further away!  We live in a rural area now where there is not much employment and my pain/mobility, etc, doesn't help my thoughts about getting another job.  However, you are right when you say "don't give up" as you shouldn't as there is always something positive waiting around the corner for you.  I hope you manage to get employment soon @zakblood.  I will keep on trying too.  Upwards and onwards! 

zakblood

thanks Ails love the cat btw and no i'll never give up, waiting for the tribunal date, but looking and applying for jobs like a man possessed atm

Ails

You are welcome, @zakblood and thanks by the way.  Good luck with your tribunal date, I hope all goes well and all the best with the job applications.  Let us know how you get on. 

Geoark

Hi @zakblood love your attitude.

I was always told it is a numbers game, the more you apply the better the chance you have of finding a job. For ten years at least twice a year I had to send out fishing letters to a hundred or so employers in the hope that one would hit the right desk at the right time with the employer in the right mood. Generic nonsense that a few thousand other unemployed people are having to do, so no surprise I only ever received one reply for a temporary role. After the third year stopped sending them to people I actually wanted to work for, preferring to tailor individual letters to these people. Or being told to apply for jobs I was not physically able to do, Only to follow this up when I did get an interview apologising for wasting their time but was told by DWP or their agents to apply or face sanctions.

I have to believe that the scatter gun approach does work for some, and it is not so they can tick a box and say we got x to apply for y number of jobs. 

Most organisations/companies who use volunteers will pay for any training and certificates that are required. It has become one of the selling points for attracting volunteers. The organisation I volunteer have access to a wide range of training opportunities which include certificates or qualifications. One of the biggest selling points is we will also pay for volunteers to have access to the internet, which now means a fairly cheap fibre broadband and loan of a laptop. Though the opportunities are with being on the board.

How you go about your job hunting is of course for you to decide, but having between 1 and 3 preferred options on the type of work you would like to do will help you focus on what skills or experience you have missing and working out how you can go about reducing them. 

Age, disability and long term unemployment can be difficult  issues to overcome, but not impossible. My current career course began five years ago and when I was 51, trainee, assistant and now officer. I may or may not make it to a senior (team leader role) but unlikely to get any higher, which to be honest suits me. This was after 10 years being unemployed and no relevant work experience, though plenty in a voluntary role.

I hope you find something soon and it is something you enjoy doing.

debbiedo49

I'm currently on jsa but do permitted work part time which I enjoy. I feel I'm in a catch 22 situation myself as I would like to increase my hours to 16 per week and try for wtc. However, I get the odd offer of an hour extra here or there nothing permanent which I turn down as it's not worth it for me. Whatever I earn is deducted from jsa. So I'm holding out for a set number of permanent hours before I jump the jsa ship. I don't want to go on to u c I'm not better off.. 

Anyway the point of my response was to say I was long term unemployed and found it very hard to get taken seriously for jobs. With help from the local council who had various departments helping people like me I tried a few things to boost my confidence and my c v. 
1. Taking part in the training programmes relevant to me that I could manage.
2. Looking at ongoing and online learning which was either free or funded by government schemes.
3. Getting involved in voluntary work appropriate to my future job.

I also utilised services provided by local charitable organisations around employment and training. This took place over a few years and eventually led me to applying and obtaining my current job. I believe having a current c v with full up to date history and my renewed self confidence was the key.

I wish you good luck. 

Adrian_Scope

Hello @zakblood and thank you for sharing. We do have some employment services here at Scope that might be of use to you - https://www.scope.org.uk/employment-services/

I hope your tribunal pans out okay. Make sure to let us know you get on!

zakblood

well 50 odd applications sent, 3 telephone interviews had and 4 placed ones, feedback so far is about what i'd expected tbh, the right qualifications but with no work history for 20 years and a long term back problem now almost sorted with only 2 to 3 years left of physio, there's far fitter and more able people around, so being honest at least gets a honest reply, which is a fair point, why would anyone take on someone with a previous long term illness when there's fitter people more able to do the job, with resent working history, unlike me with none, so changing tact, as now applying for the lowest and most basic of jobs, where no qualification or experience is needed and will see how that goes, nothing so far i've tried has been more than the minimum wage btw, but all local almost on my doorstep, so now throwing the net to a wider catchment and will see how another month of trying goes, no date as yet for the Tribunal, been told in Notts it's around a year wait, so have plenty of time to look for work, at least now i'm getting something off them, well not yet but soon, as i've had a letter stating that from April they will now pay me £73.10, not the £115.00 i was getting, but any amount helps and better than the £0 i've been getting since April the 14th this year, so only 3 or 4 more weeks to wait for it to come, then i can start to pay back the council tax i owe, so in one hand and out the other, seems my partners tax credits and my income i've not even got back yet means council tax has more than doubled from last year, while we are both getting far less, so yes work that out, and on top of that, still can't get any help with the NHS, fought them last year and provided all the information they requested and they stated we was over the limit for help, while everyone who had the same information like the council and local bodies all said we were £3k under, but as you can't argue with them either, not HC1 forms came back with a HC3 letter only.

as the goal posts keep getting wider apart, i'm not surprised many fall through the gaps, i'm lucky my partner works, not enough for us to be anything other than just keeping our heads above water, but as we haven't drowned yet, what doesn't kill us can only make us stronger, i feel i have average intelligence, worked hard enough in the 25 years i did work and paid off my mortgage, but now it seems not only have i been penalized for many years for having savings, which now have all gone, i'm now penalized again for being ill in the past and now found myself in a loop of every door closing before i get to the handle, it makes me laugh, i find life quite funny at times, had a interview at one place where they had just taken on Ex cons with no experience as no one was willing to do the job in a concrete factory, but none stayed more than a month, i got a interview, but never got a job, so seems i'm of less worth than someone who's even been inside, so double punished i feel, does make me wonder what i will need to do, maybe i'll try crime?

as being honest sure isn't working, or lye on my forms and don't state my back issue?

either way, chin up everyone, it's warm, we are alive, with a new PM, which tbh can't see will change anything other than for the rich, but we keep waking up, so another day, so on wards and upwards,...

Chloe_Scope

Good morning @zakblood, how are you doing with the heat?

I'm so sorry to hear you keep getting turned down for jobs and that you are still waiting for the tribunal. Things must be really tough at the moment. I really hope you're not waiting too long to be paid and that your look for work improves. Did you look at the support to work that Adrian suggested?

zakblood

yes thanks, like everything atm, i'm being told the same thing

go on training coarse's, been there, done that and wore the many tea shirts, tbh that's just keeping others in work, those that provide the training, other than turn up, 90% of the time you learn nothing and yes i've been when others turn up for the last day and get the same certificate that you were given for being there for a week or a month or more, been on some longer one and had the same so know how useful they are, not!!!!

volunteer (done 20 years so far in that direction) already , which got me know where...

retrain at college, again spent 10 years in further education, more than a waste of time, then you have the paper work, but not the experience, so catch 22, seems not only my 52 years age is against me, but no past 20 years working, seems some employers would prefer someone from jail with no illness more than someone who has been ill also with no experience.

of you know more than the person who's teaching you, and some of the class come to you for guidance at the end of the day or break time, or the college uses you as free IT support and send you to other colleges as you know more than there own IT staff, who have the paper work but no idea on how to do almost anything, so yes could write a book on how useless many things are in the modern world i'm living in.

college to me, was 10 years wasted, having X number of IT qualifications mostly out of date the same year you take them, as there always updating them, means little in real terms, when in the end, it's who you know that means more than what you have, wouldn't be the first time i was interviewed and have some spotty faced just out of teens with a degree going for the same job on minimum wage, just because there degree in lego was next to useless in the real world.

or only last week, sat at the side of a young lady who just left uni with a 1st in marine biology and could only find work in Ikea, stack and till work.

so in the end i know how hard the job market is, and also how unfair it is, most jobs if your shown what to do, a trained monkey could do it to a reasonable standard after a few days,

I've done forensic data recovery for the police while working at a local computer shop, but to get a job in it, you need a degree plus so many other qualifications, all i want is work, don't mind if it's a cleaning job, but atm seem unable to even get that, seems i'm over qualified for most, or haven't enough working background for care work, or not fit enough for most to even give me a chance, there lost as i see it, but will keep trying just to prove a point, as i never have ever given up in anything so far in life, and in the end if no one wants me, it's not from the lack of trying on my part, maybe i am to honest and given just a tad too much of my medical history, but how do you get around without not telling the truth of no work history for the last 20 years? being idle maybe does sound better than being ill, and being locked up may get someone else a job, but being honest i can only be me

April2018mom

zakblood said:

yes thanks, like everything atm, i'm being told the same thing

go on training coarse's, been there, done that and wore the many tea shirts, tbh that's just keeping others in work, those that provide the training, other than turn up, 90% of the time you learn nothing and yes i've been when others turn up for the last day and get the same certificate that you were given for being there for a week or a month or more, been on some longer one and had the same so know how useful they are, not!!!!

volunteer (done 20 years so far in that direction) already , which got me know where...

retrain at college, again spent 10 years in further education, more than a waste of time, then you have the paper work, but not the experience, so catch 22, seems not only my 52 years age is against me, but no past 20 years working, seems some employers would prefer someone from jail with no illness more than someone who has been ill also with no experience.

of you know more than the person who's teaching you, and some of the class come to you for guidance at the end of the day or break time, or the college uses you as free IT support and send you to other colleges as you know more than there own IT staff, who have the paper work but no idea on how to do almost anything, so yes could write a book on how useless many things are in the modern world i'm living in.

college to me, was 10 years wasted, having X number of IT qualifications mostly out of date the same year you take them, as there always updating them, means little in real terms, when in the end, it's who you know that means more than what you have, wouldn't be the first time i was interviewed and have some spotty faced just out of teens with a degree going for the same job on minimum wage, just because there degree in lego was next to useless in the real world.

or only last week, sat at the side of a young lady who just left uni with a 1st in marine biology and could only find work in Ikea, stack and till work.

so in the end i know how hard the job market is, and also how unfair it is, most jobs if your shown what to do, a trained monkey could do it to a reasonable standard after a few days,

I've done forensic data recovery for the police while working at a local computer shop, but to get a job in it, you need a degree plus so many other qualifications, all i want is work, don't mind if it's a cleaning job, but atm seem unable to even get that, seems i'm over qualified for most, or haven't enough working background for care work, or not fit enough for most to even give me a chance, there lost as i see it, but will keep trying just to prove a point, as i never have ever given up in anything so far in life, and in the end if no one wants me, it's not from the lack of trying on my part, maybe i am to honest and given just a tad too much of my medical history, but how do you get around without not telling the truth of no work history for the last 20 years? being idle maybe does sound better than being ill, and being locked up may get someone else a job, but being honest i can only be me

What about freelance work? My friend repairs household objects like clocks and fans for a living. If you like I can suggest he calls you. Have you looked at training courses yet? Or you could be a childcare provider. 

zakblood

thanks, coming off benefits is a one way process, my GP and physio still says i'm not well enough yet, so may take 2 to 3 years of work, as while my bones are better, my muscles have wasted somewhat, so that needs some long term work, aged 52 this month, and being told this month also i was better in 2014 but no one bothered to tell me, now i'm finding it hard to come to terms with, as in the one hand im waiting for a tribunal date, and in the other, i'm on the road now to recovery, so maybe no longer need the generosity of the DWP with it's vast hand outs etc, so are actively seeking some form of work.

childcare, hard to get into being a man at my age, worked in schools for the last 20 years voluntary, and tbh the hurdles they make you now go through, as everyone is treated like a criminal just because some men are, everyone else's gets punished, this is one reasons why there are less now given up there free time, as a man, it's hard, when i first started in school i went for the whole 6 weeks holiday with the primary school each week with a different class camping, i cooked, cleaned and drove the mini bus, and loved it and then became a school governor for the next 20 odd years, teaching IT and doing the schools health and safety plus was there first aid'er etc, lifeguard, swimming teacher you name it, pot washer come spare class room teacher at times, good and happy days.

but never got a degree or wanted to do it for a living.

have enough IT qualifications over 10 years at college, but seems no amount of them helps if you haven't the got the experience in a real work place.

was a wet plasterer from leaving school for 25 years, now that's a dying art, and tbh not sure either my back or body could take the work now either.

which leaves me my other qualifications, life guard teacher, swimming teacher level 3, club coach level 3 swimming, have coached for the county swim squad for 20 years voluntary and at club level, so not short of much, other than paid work experience in the last 20 years, as all my time over the last 20 years have been on one coarse or another, either at school, at a club or for myself, took that many while i was a governor that i was going to take it to national level, but the only thing which held me back was the lack of funding, as everything i've ever done has been funded by someone else, and they gained for it, and had me as free labor for the years i was there, now most of the coarse's are meaning less, as dated and old, so i'm i prepared to do more?

well no, as if i spend any more time in class un paid, i'll be at retirement age and then really won't need it either i'm sorry to say, but really say thanks for the reply and answer all the same, over the many years i've started to understand many things and see thing more clearly,

with coarse's being a job on there own, seems now days you need a card and certificate to wear a hard hat and a high vis jacket on building site and boots, wow someone thought that up and made a killing a job doing nothing and charging others to go, now that's some brains, wish i'd thought of it.

or driving a fork lift, in my day you learnt on the first week and they was qualified for life same as driving your car, now you need to take it every few years, but you don't have to, to drive? so seems a fork lift is more hazards than a car? nope.

ah well i'll leave it at that, or it may sound like a rant, and wasn't meant to be

April2018mom

What about making up booklets on a laptop? Or editing newsletters? 

Chloe_Scope

Thank you for sharing all of this with us @zakblood. I can understand why you'd feel frustrated. You have worked in so many fields, and clearly was very good at it!

I'm sorry work has been such a barrier. Are you wanting to go back into work at the moment? Or is this more something for the future?

zakblood

i'd like to have a choice if i can before the tribunal, so a year of searching and asking and getting some more experience, as tbh i don't ever want to be under the DWP again if i can help it, they have been fine for almost most of my time with them, but the last few years have been so hard, it's as if they wish everyone either off or dead, and Amber Rudd has a lot to answer for, with the next PM seeming no better, then again i don't vote so really shouldn't complain either.

so yes i'd like a job now and for until i retire, and come away from the benefits trap once and for all

Waylay

@zakblood Could you apply to volunteer at a school or day camp for a bit?

Waylay

@Geoark I hear that. I have chronic back pain w/ sciatica and back spasms which are triggered/worsened by sitting/walking/standing/bending, etc. for 5-15 mins), and MH problems including severe anxiety.

Before I applied for ESA I was on JSA, and in my first appointment with my Work Coach I described my limitations, told her about my degrees and experience as a scientific researcher, and said that I basically needed a job that had flexible hours, was mostly from home, and involved computer work of some kind. She suggested:

- a job in a shoe store (I can't sit/stand/walk for long, bending is a serious no-no, and my last experience in retail was 20 years before - oh yeah, and ANXIETY)

- working in a library (did this for a few years in uni 15y ago, but can't sit/stand/walk for long and can't lift heavy things like books - Oh yeah, & ANXIETY), and

- caring work (uh, hello? I couldn't even support someone else to stand much of the time, and I'm on opioids almost all the time - not safe! + ANXIETY).

After a few appointments I was sent to a charity (can't remember name) that was supposed to help disabled/sick people find work. He suggested a CV-writing class right off, so I handed him my CV. "Hmmm. This is very good. What about interview skills?" I thought that could be useful, although my anxiety spiked at the idea of being in a class... Screw it. I figured I could give it a try with some diazepam and see what happened. Except... it was a 1-hr bus ride away, with a 10 min walk at the end. My back wouldn't have dealt with that - I'd end up in spasm/with sciatica most days, drugged stupid and lying on the floor. With a spasm I'd have to taxi back some days, which I couldn't afford. He asked about my scientific background and looked blank for a bit, then said, "We honestly don't work with people with degrees, and most of our jobs are physical in nature. I'll just sign you in every week so you don't have to come in. I'll call you if a job shows up for you." Sigh.

Applied for ESA the next week.

zakblood

Waylay said:

@zakblood Could you apply to volunteer at a school or day camp for a bit?

i've done 20 years at primary school at one thing or another, done more than my fair share of volunteering in my mind, now i wish to be paid and look after myself and my partner, seems all the doors which were open when free, soon close when money is asked for

zakblood

good luck Waylay, it's a hard jobs market atm and being over qualified is as hard as being out of work for so long, like a doubled edged sword that cuts only one way, ours

zakblood

well 3 more interviews and 3 more failed, seems one, the job to me had already gone, internal etc from what i can understand, 2nd well no recent experience was met with others with more recent etc, and 3rd, i couldn't meet the one day date offered for the interview but gave them any day and time before or afterwards as not working so are free to do any other before or after, as was going to girlfriends son wedding, so was told

"Thank you for your message regarding our invite to interview. I have spoken to the hiring manager and unfortunately he is unavailable for the dates that you mentioned, due to annual leave and a previously arranged engagement. He has asked me to let you know that you are of interest, however they are now committed to other interviews now on the 14th. If those interviews are unsuccessful, then he will make arrangements to see you at a later date."

so for me, another internal one, jobs already gone, and was maybe never on offer, but have gone through the motions as per law.

so far 12 interviews attended and maybe around 60 forms sent, so not a bad total so far,

 

"Favouring disabled candidates

When a disabled person and a non-disabled person both meet the job requirements, you can treat the disabled person more favorably."

while this maybe why i get more interviews than maybe i should, with 20 years of no work history, i do have 25 years of past experience and more than enough out of date qualifications, so all in all, i'm quite happy how it's going so far, even if i haven't still got a job or been even offered one, so i cast the net wider and go for 25 miles range from home, and try again, already filtered out most words in work that i'm not suitable for, so what's left i read and see if i meet the min requirements, then fill in and send, and see what happens, so far more than half have replied so not a bad percentage i'd guess, more than i thought, but yes harder than i'd expected, for the minimum wage, some do seem to want there cake and eat it.

latest buzzwords bank's contract, meaning zero hour in everything but words, sit at home and wait for the phone to ring each and every day and hope you get enough hours to survive seems the ones more on offer than anything, we have 60 hours on offer, then next week you may have none, how you live or budget on this is anyone's guess, seems like a UC nightmare to me.

but as i'm only after replacing £72 a week, something come Christmas time, i may have to at least explore, as in anyways, if i get less, at least unlike now i'll not be paying council tax or NHS health costs, as atm, i get 25% council tax help and just got my yearly NHS HS3 certificate, which tbh isn't worth the paper or time to get tbh either as so far in 20 years, never had a bill over the amount which i stopped at, so as everything so far has been under, i've already always paid, so unlike incapacity benefit which i was on and then changed to ESA, which removed the income support element, always made me and everyone else worse off, doing the maths and trying to understand how they get to a figure with the data i give them, is like understanding rocket science, as job center with the same data says yes you should get HS2, but NHS says no, and gives HS3, like it or lump it, you can't argue the fact, as once in the system and complain, either you get sent back to the end of the que, or taken off it altogether or they make a mistake on the reply and the form can't be used by use as they spell your name wrong etc, and by the time you get it corrected, another year goes by and you apply again.

so not down, not fed up and still quite cheerful and there's a lot worse off than me, so will keep trying, i'm not too proud to wipe a bum, or sweep the streets, or work 3 jobs to get things to work out that i'm better off, can do attitude has helped me most of my life so far, so do or die, one way or another, something will come, one day, so will carry on sending off for anything and see what i end up with all so far less than £16k per year and none which anyone hear couldn't do with one eye closes, on my worse day, i'd be at least as good as the useless ones i see lurking in Tesco's, falling asleep standing up, drugged out of there box monday after a skinful or what ever they now do over the weekend, just need someone to give me a chance, or know someone inside, which is always a help, as who you know is as good as a pat on the back and a wink to a blind man, or so the saying goes and gets changed depending on where you live and your age etc

https://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/nod-is-as-good-as-a-wink.html

Adrian_Scope

It must be really demoralising @zakblood, but I'm glad you're still managing to remain optimistic.