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Food related pip activities

rigetriget Member Posts: 29 Listener
Hi, having my f2f soon and would like to know my likely points score, firstly for eating and drinking I have achalasia, this makes swallowing food difficult, I have to drink lots of fluid with a meal(over a pint) and it takes usually twice as long for me to eat a meal with having to take smaller quantities and chew well, washing it down with liquid, now I see chewing and swallowing in the activity but nothing in the descriptors, does anyone know a likely outcome for this?

Secondly prepare a meal, I am a through hip leg amputee, I have a prosthesis but don't wear it around the house(but could do), now my problem would be carrying around the kitchen(I use both hands to move with crutches with or without my leg on) now I've read that carrying is not included in this activity(bonkers) yet I have also read that the law says to prepare a meal you would have to carry(pots from cooker to sink and to another surface to serve it) so again would anyone likely know the points outcome from this.

 Thanks.

Replies

  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    Hi,

    Taking nutrition. If you need assistance to be able to cut your food up or supervision while eating then this is considered. Drinking lots of water while you eat isn't considered in this activity.

    Preparing food. This activity considers a claimant’s ability to prepare and cook a simple meal for one from fresh ingredients. It assesses ability to open packaging, peel and chop, serve food on to a plate and use a microwave oven or cooker hob to cook or heat food. Serving food and carrying pots/pans around the kitchen isn't considered in this activity.



    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • rigetriget Member Posts: 29 Listener
    So the prepare and cook a meal has nothing to do with cooking a meal then, do they use the title just for an example or do they believe it seems a good title?
    As ex assessors did you understand it to mean cooking a meal even though getting the pots from sink to cooker to a serving area would mean carrying them.
  • rigetriget Member Posts: 29 Listener
    ilovecats said:
    While I understand it seems stupid, and believe me as an assessor I know that cooking involves more than just peeling veg and standing at a hob, this is guidance they have to follow.

    This is literally word for word from the official guidance:


    ‘This activity considers a claimant’s ability to prepare and cook a simple meal for one from fresh ingredients. It assesses ability to open packaging, peel and chop, serve food on to a plate and use a microwave oven or cooker hob to cook or heat food. Serving food means transferring food to a plate or bowl, it does not include presentation.

    Carrying items around the kitchen or carrying food to where it will be eaten is not included in this activity.

    This activity considers the claimants functional limitations in their ability to prepare food and not the claimant’s lack of skill or opportunity to learn. If an individual cannot cook at all because they have never needed to learn, consider their ability to carry out activities at or above waist height and their cognitive ability to use a stove or microwave if shown how.

    Cooking food at waist height does not consider the ability to bend down to access an oven.’


    Assuming your physical difficulties are lower limb only without any severe pain condition or mental/cognitive issue then it’s is likely that B would be the most appropriate descriptor. 

    But they have a choice, and then decide to mark people down knowing the activity has nothing to do with cooking.

  • rigetriget Member Posts: 29 Listener
    ilovecats said:
    riget said:
    ilovecats said:
    While I understand it seems stupid, and believe me as an assessor I know that cooking involves more than just peeling veg and standing at a hob, this is guidance they have to follow.

    This is literally word for word from the official guidance:


    ‘This activity considers a claimant’s ability to prepare and cook a simple meal for one from fresh ingredients. It assesses ability to open packaging, peel and chop, serve food on to a plate and use a microwave oven or cooker hob to cook or heat food. Serving food means transferring food to a plate or bowl, it does not include presentation.

    Carrying items around the kitchen or carrying food to where it will be eaten is not included in this activity.

    This activity considers the claimants functional limitations in their ability to prepare food and not the claimant’s lack of skill or opportunity to learn. If an individual cannot cook at all because they have never needed to learn, consider their ability to carry out activities at or above waist height and their cognitive ability to use a stove or microwave if shown how.

    Cooking food at waist height does not consider the ability to bend down to access an oven.’


    Assuming your physical difficulties are lower limb only without any severe pain condition or mental/cognitive issue then it’s is likely that B would be the most appropriate descriptor. 

    But they have a choice, and then decide to mark people down knowing the activity has nothing to do with cooking.

    They have a choice to pick a descriptor that accurately reflects the claimants ability in comparison with the set DWP standards. It does have everything to do with cooking, chopping peeling, stirring, mixing and plating etc while using a hob or microwave. 
    Those activities could relate to anything, it's just about using your hands, how do you get the pan of potatoes from the sink to the hob?
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    You're misunderstanding it. This activity is not about carry pans around the kitchen.
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • rigetriget Member Posts: 29 Listener
    Thanks poppy but why is the activity called prepare and cook a meal if it's impossible to do it? This is what I'm saying, is it just a made up title or are the rules bent to suit.

    Do the assessors not question the activities?
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    edited July 2019
    You really aren't understanding this activity.

    This activity considers a claimant’s ability to prepare and cook a simple meal for one from fresh ingredients. It assesses ability to open packaging, peel and chop, serve food on to a plate and use a microwave oven or cooker hob to cook or heat food. Serving food means transferring food to a plate or bowl, it does not include presentation.

    Carrying items around the kitchen or carrying food to where it will be eaten is not included in this activity.

    You would most likely score 2 points for needing an aid.


    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • rigetriget Member Posts: 29 Listener
    Can you answer my questions please

    Is this activity about cooking a meal

    Can you cook a meal without carrying anything




  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    This has previously been answered. This activity is about preparing a meal from fresh ingredients stood or sat in the kitchen, It's about using a cooker or microwave at waist height, using your hands.

    It doesn't include carrying things around the kitchen or about bending down to use an oven.

    You will most likely score 2 points for needing to use an aid.
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • Adrian_ScopeAdrian_Scope Testing team Posts: 7,941

    Scope community team

    edited July 2019
    Hi @riget. I think we can all agree that it's a poorly worded descriptor that doesn't take into account the actual steps of cooking or preparing a meal. But unfortunately Poppy and ILoveCats' description of the descriptor is correct and what they've explained is all that will (rightly or wrongly) be taken into account by the assessor.

    Best of luck with your F2F. Please let us know how you get on. (If you need any help with any other descriptors in the meantime, just shout! :smile:)
    Senior Community Partner
    Scope

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  • cristobalcristobal Member Posts: 966 Disability Gamechanger
    edited July 2019
    @riget - most of the descriptors accurately describe the task in hand, although there are some anomalies - 'bathing' doesn't include getting dried being a good one!

    It's not all negative though - 'bathing' means being able to access an unadapted bath AND shower, so if you can shower OK but can't use a bath then you will score points of some description...(and vice versa, obviously)
  • rigetriget Member Posts: 29 Listener
    Hi @riget. I think we can all agree that it's a poorly worded descriptor that doesn't take into account the actual steps of cooking or preparing a meal. But unfortunately Poppy and ILoveCats' description of the descriptor is correct and what they've explained is all that will (rightly or wrongly) be taken into account by the assessor.

    Best of luck with your F2F. Please let us know how you get on. (If you need any help with any other descriptors in the meantime, just shout! :smile:)
    Thanks Adrian, yes I know poppy and lovecats are correct but the answers they gave  were not what I was after, I can search the internet and find all that information, I was after more like what you've put in that it's poorly worded and doesn't take into account the actual steps of cooking or preparing a meal, I would like to know have any claimants or assessors questioned it, lovecats has said it's stupid and that there's more involved to cooking but did they question it?

     Thanks. 
  • cristobalcristobal Member Posts: 966 Disability Gamechanger
    @riget - the DWP guidance is, I believe, derived from the laws that are in place governing PIP.

    You can only apply on the rules that are in place as they are, even if they don't always seem sensible.

    This doesn't help you right now but if you believe that the law needs to be changed then maybe you should see your MP as, ultimately, it will be parliament that changes it.
  • thespicemanthespiceman Member Posts: 6,408 Disability Gamechanger
    Hello @riget   Pleased to meet you.  With regard to your questions on cooking and preparing a meal.

    I do understand what you mean unfortunately as I know too well. Being doing assessments constantly a long time.

    So many of the descriptors are difficult to understand in my opinion to justify the points and are too complex.

    I was a Civil Servant for a number of years.  If been through that and thought well any thing written down was hard to fathom out.

    Had former colleagues trained to avoid saying yes or no and used a lot of confusion.  If you ever seen Yes Minster or Yes Prime Minister then you know about the way Government is run.

    May think that is a comedy.  In reality nearer the truth very close.

    Really it is . Trust me. Been in situations like this.

    Always got worse with PIP descriptors.  Now the age can not believe or understand anything.

    One bit of advice I can give you speak to CAB.. I use them all the time.

    Two members of staff at CAB had a copy of descriptors and points.  For each descriptor.

    Helped me fill in the form they filled it in with my self giving statements of my lifestyle. Had written down on a draft answers the day before. Any thing else.

    I put down had problems with pots and pans have designed specially bought cookware. Has soft handles and easy to lift off if I need to.

    Always use oven gloves. Or double over tea towels  to remove lids a knobs can get hot.

    I like cooking but with my disability uses  . Food processors, Blenders and any kitchen gadgets.

    Have fingers missing and toes so dicing, chopping, Plus standing.  Have to plan and schedule meals. Just done a batch of veggies sliced food processor. For next time.

    So with my self describing need to use tin openers and scissors to open up packets. 

    Spillages has been known.  

    I  described certain things I do cook Pasta being one. Only got 2 points. On that activity.  

    Looked at the report right now.

    Hope that helps.

    Please if any of the community can help with anything please ask.

    We are here to be supportive.

    Take care.

    @thespiceman
    Community Champion
    SCOPE Volunteer Award Engaging Communities 2019
    Mental Health advice, guidance and information to all members
    Nutrition, Diet, Wellbeing, Addiction.
    Recipes
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 5,987 Disability Gamechanger
    Carrying is explicitly not included because it is an interim activity and not an activity in itself. You carry from one place to another for a purpose. Your ability to perform the purpose is a more valuable measure of functional ability than anything interim. 

    Someone with no fingers may be able to carry a bag of sugar, shopping etc. just as effectively as a person with fingers. It literally tells you nothing about functional disability. On the other hand being able to read a use by date on the sugar; being able to pour out an exact amount; being able to stir the sugar...they all give information about functional disability. The person with no fingers would be penalised if the measure was carrying as opposed to fine motor skills. 
  • rigetriget Member Posts: 29 Listener
    Carrying is explicitly not included because it is an interim activity and not an activity in itself. You carry from one place to another for a purpose. Your ability to perform the purpose is a more valuable measure of functional ability than anything interim. 

    Someone with no fingers may be able to carry a bag of sugar, shopping etc. just as effectively as a person with fingers. It literally tells you nothing about functional disability. On the other hand being able to read a use by date on the sugar; being able to pour out an exact amount; being able to stir the sugar...they all give information about functional disability. The person with no fingers would be penalised if the measure was carrying as opposed to fine motor skills. 
    I don't understand a lot of that but for me you're saying someone with no fingers is more disabled than someone with no legs.
    So why don't they have an activity where carrying is not needed instead of one where it is but they exclude it?
  • rigetriget Member Posts: 29 Listener
    Hey guys/gals I've just watched EastEnders on catch-up as I missed it yesterday, couldn't believe what I'd seen, Phil Mitchell peeling potatoes in the sink, pretty amazing hey and there's more he only put them in a pan of water and   wait for it "carried" it to the hob, obviously never cooked before as who carries things in the kitchen?
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    We all know that part of cooking involves carrying things around the kitchen but this isn't part of the criteria for the PIP descriptors for activity 1.
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • rigetriget Member Posts: 29 Listener
    Hmmm food for thought, Thanks.
  • thespicemanthespiceman Member Posts: 6,408 Disability Gamechanger
    Hello @riget   You got me thinking so looked through all my old assessment reports do keep many of them.

    Got one mentioned I used a slow cooker, pre-diced vegetables and meat.

    Still got 2 points.

    @ilovecats reminds me of some of the aspects of making a meal and the gadgets, devices available.

    Worth having a look on webpages.  AMAZON good.  

    Hope that helps you.

    @thespiceman


    Community Champion
    SCOPE Volunteer Award Engaging Communities 2019
    Mental Health advice, guidance and information to all members
    Nutrition, Diet, Wellbeing, Addiction.
    Recipes
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 5,987 Disability Gamechanger

    I am not saying anything about who is "more disabled" as that's not a relevant concept here. being "more disabled" is not the route to qualifying for PIP, particularly if you believe in the social model of disability. The issue you are raising is why some activities being considered and others not. There are 2 answers to that:

    1 - as already stated above carrying is not an activity. It is something which enables something else to happen. It is a concept which exists separately in ESA simply because there it is considered to be a fundamental activity within most workplaces. Work is largely irrelevant to PIP.

    2 - the activities which have been selected were selected by a group of experts which included medical professionals; organisations representing disabled people etc. They are meant to be broadly representative and not to analyse every last thing someone can't do. Other approaches would be unsustainable. Imagine a world in which tetraplegia still meant you had to fill in a form to confirm that not only could you not cook but they also couldn't carry the things involved in cooking. It would quickly descend into nonsense.

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