MR same result, next steps ?

Singing

Hi, so now I wish to take them to tribunal - what do I do? I got my MR decision today and it was the same. Zero for everything and I’m still in shock. They have said because I can drive and understood them I don’t have mental health problems! Honestly just because I’m not an idiot and I find driving mentally relaxing doesn’t mean I don’t genuinely have very real mental health problems! That completely make my everyday life a constant challenge I can’t navigate without the help of neighbours and my community! What steps do I need to take now, please can you help me. I’m so mad with them.  Thank you so much. 

poppy123456

HI,

It's no surprise that the MR decision didn't change because most don't. You now have 1 month from the date of the decision to request the Tribunal. You need to fill out the SSCS1 form and send the MR decision letter with that.

Do be aware that waiting times for hearings is huge in most areas and lots of people are waiting a year for hearing date. Appearing in person will give you the best chance of a decision in your favour.

Driving can sometimes go against you depending on the reasons for your claim. There are 10 daily living activities too so don't forget about those.

This link will help you know what's available in your area for face to face advice. https://advicelocal.uk/

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/benefits/sick-or-disabled-people-and-carers/pip/appeals/apply-to-tribunal/

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/benefits/sick-or-disabled-people-and-carers/pip/appeals/your-hearing/

Hart86

Sorry it stayed the same and good luck with tribunal @Singing!!

Singing

Hi Poppy - It took me four attempts of driving there to get to my appointment. The first three times I tried to get there because I had to I got lost for hours, the second time I had a panic attack and waited for my friend to come and pick me up, the third time I had no idea how to get there even though I knew where I was going.

 So its really absurd that they state I drove there fine. As that’s not actually true, is it ? It took me four attempts because I only ever drive locally. And trying to go somewhere new, if I am on my own inevitability always goes wrong. Just because I finally made it on the fourth attempt as I was literally having the best day of my mental health in five years, it doesn’t mean they can assume that is how I normally operate, is it ? They even know I called them to say I don’t think I can get there, and they said well you have to, and I failed three times and luckily succeeded the fourth time.

But that could simply be because I didn’t want to die in a ditch without any way to pay for my rent and living expenses. Consequently that day I felt under so much pressure that I just did my biggest fake ever- yes yes I’m fine totally saying what they wanted me to just so I would survive the journey and day.

How do I explain this to the court ? Having this condition means I can do a fake for 15 minutes, of pretending everything is fine, because I want to survive- but that’s not the reality of my daily living and life, so I really feel manipulated by them and everything has been twisted also I feel my condition has been manipulated as they said I answered appropriately’ No I didn’t! I was seeing things - people with guns pointing at me from behind her, in the room scared for my life and just nodding yes when she gave me an approving look!

 I know that inside I wanted to say no this is what it’s really like ... but each time I tried she frowned at me so that I stopped talking. I’m so frustrated with them. The point was I knew how important it was but she made me only say what she wanted to hear and not how my life is really effected.

This was supported by my extreme fear and survival mode of pretending everything is fine. 

Which is is what I simply have to do sometimes because having severe MH means I have experienced a lot of very bad interpersonal interactions. 

Singing

Can they really say I can’t have pip just because I drove there on the fourth attempt ? And I’m intelligent but I have severe mental health problems. Neither of those are actually my fault either. 

Singing

The fact it looks like a doctors office and they actually are clearly not qualified also is disgusting- how dare they

poppy123456

People get lost all the time when they are driving to an unfamiliar place, so you won't score points under following and planning a journey because you got lost. Did you take someone with you for the assessment?

When you go out do you go out alone or do you need someone with you when you go? If you need someone with you what's the reason why you need this help? These are all things you need to think about. See the mobility descriptors and what they mean here. https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/personal-independence-payment-assessment-guide-for-assessment-providers/pip-assessment-guide-part-2-the-assessment-criteria#mobility-activities

What about the daily living activities? There's 10 of them, have you looked to see where you can score points for an award in this. You need to explain why you have difficulties for each one that applies to you, then add some examples of what happened the last time you attempted that activity for each one that applies to you.

For example, washing and bathing. Are you able to wash without needing prompting from another person? Maybe you need someone to remind you to do this? If you do, what would happen if you weren't prompted by another person? You need to explain all of this to them.

Having some understanding of the descriptors and what they mean will help you alot. Descriptors and what they mean here. 

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/personal-independence-payment-assessment-guide-for-assessment-providers/pip-assessment-guide-part-2-the-assessment-criteria#daily-living-activities

Singing

Hi so online there is no option to download the form to post it ? 

Singing

Do I have to send all my evidence in with the ssc1 form ? 

poppy123456

You can download and print it off here. https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/748554/sscs1-eng.pdf

Or fill it online and send it here. https://www.gov.uk/appeal-benefit-decision/submit-appeal

All the evidence you've already sent will be sent by the DWP so no need to send it again. You'll receive everything DWP send in your bundle, which you should read through to make sure everything is there and correct.

If you have anything extra to send then you can do this at a later date, you'll have plenty of time.

All you need to do to request the Tribunal is give a brief details of why you're appealing. Your submission can be done at a later date.

cristobal

Singing said:

Can they really say I can’t have pip just because I drove there on the fourth attempt ? And I’m intelligent but I have severe mental health problems. Neither of those are actually my fault either. 

@singing - it might be worth looking at the PIP descriptors and the DWP guidance:-

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/personal-independence-payment-assessment-guide-for-assessment-providers/pip-assessment-guide-part-2-the-assessment-criteria#mobility-activities

‘Mobility’ (or in fact any other descriptor ) isn’t actually about whether you can drive a car. 

I think that the assessors ask about driving because if you can safely drive a car, obey road signs, and recognise and respond appropriately to hazards, then they assume that your cognitive function is good.

Consequently, or so they assume, you should be capable of working out a route, making notes as to landmarks and maybe inputting details into a mobile phone or similar if you have one. It’s not really about getting lost - plenty of people don’t know one end of the map from another but it doesn’t mean that their cognitive skills are poor.

You see also that there is reference to ‘overwhelming psychological distress’ which doesn’t seem to apply here as you have attempted the journey four times but obviously you are the best judge of which descriptor best applies to you, as you know you condition better than anyone.

Hope you find this useful…

Singing

Ok Thanks for your help - yes I did and do experience overwhelming psychological distress attempting a new journey alone. I experienced a psychotic break the first three attempts and couldn’t leave my house for several months. Do you see what I mean ? Explaining what I actually experience and how it effects me is really difficult when people make assumptions about their own experience in comparison. I’m me, with schizo- affective disorder, not someone else , or you’. So people judge based upon their own reference points. Which are not my daily experience! Its like if I could have just crashed my car or had a psychotic episode in the room that day would count as evidence? but because I tried to be calm and they can’t see inside my head they write me off! 

poppy123456

If you attended the assessment alone this could have gone against you, if you say you don't go anywhere alone.

cristobal

@singing - 

On the face of it it's a rather strange situation because you travel to an assessment and then explain that you can't go out alone without experiencing OPD. Yet you've just driven there and are apparently OK...

Apart from asking for some support from whoever is responsible for your care - for example if they say that you can't go out to appointments etc - I don't know what else to suggest.

Sorry if I've misunderstood but please post again if you have any other questions and hopefully someone will be able to help you..

Singing

Hi yes I guess on the face of it looks confusing but that’s because nobody seems to be listening.

Sorry about this is so frustrating. I tried to get there three times on my own. After I had called them the first time to explain I wouldn’t be able to manage it. Why did I fail the first three times? I had OPD and it went very wrong.

The fourth attempt which was over five months of me trying to get there because even though I said I probably can’t get there every time, and have no one to help, they kept saying I had to get there - I ‘managed’ it. But I then thought aliens were controlling my thoughts for the next six months due to the stress and didn’t leave my house, and was terrified and made very unwell

Singing

I was experiencing intense psychosis but in survival mode so the assessor thought I was fine. This is my point - they can’t see what is going on in my head and how it truly effected me. 

Chloe_Scope

Hi @Singing, How are doing? I have just posted some links on your other thread, I hope these help.

[Deleted User]

I actually understand what you mean @Singing I have significant anxiety, agoraphobia, depression, possibly social anxiety and fibromyalgia, I find it difficult to go out alone, my Son comes everywhere with me, I cancel appointments more often than not and yeah it's frustrating when people assume because you went somewhere alone once, that you can do this all of the time especially when it's meant to be based 50% of the time over 12 months, I've had an assessor who was just a nurse trying to re-diagnosed me, pretty much made my award about my physical health, dropped me from 18 points in each to 8 and has removed anything that indicates that I have MH problems. A lot of contradictions and discrepancies in the report, I'm still waiting to hear about the decision, it's been 17 weeks now.

Singing

Yes - it’s frustrating - the longest journey I have made in five years and it put me back so badly in my mental health- that I don’t drive at all now because I think there are aliens in it and I’m too scared to experience that ever again. I have been given a tribunal date - but how do I get there? Believe it or not I don’t have family I can trust here and don’t drive and no partner - my best friend is deaf and going blind so how do I get there ? CAB are trying to help me though - my next psychiatric appointment is the 26th of September but again how do I get there as they don’t do call outs anymore due to cutbacks - any help or advice is very much appreciated 

Singing

Sorry I haven’t been given a tribunal date but I have had a letter saying they are going to get in touch about arranging one - I think - it seems 

Singing

And I will need the mental health team to help me with my evidence history and dates and diagnosis information- 

Chloe_Scope

Hi @Singing, if there is anything we can do to help then please do let us know, I understand how overwhelming these things can be.

Singing

Thank you so much - I will

Singing

Its really not easy