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TRIBUNAL DECISION TOTAL SCAM!

DianeLDianeL Member Posts: 8 Listener
edited August 2019 in PIP, DLA and AA
On 29th July 2019, I was forced to go to the Tribunal of my PIP decision. WHAT I was refuting was after 20yrs of disability and getting WORSE by the year..I was on DLA/ESA both on Higher rate and support group. As I have ALOT of physical and emotional problems. I got motability car. THEN I had to change to PIP, Where they decided that theyre more magical than Harry potter and My condition will all clear up and disapear by 2022! They gave me STANDARD mobility rate and same for day to day wellbeing or whatever its called. As you can imagine I was livid..I had a mental break down..so my Dr supervised me monthly and was put on anti anxiety tablets and raised my mg on my anti depressents.
A letter or so later they still would not budge until i got my Tribunal date of 29th. I got worse and was seeing the hospitals,consultants etc where one consultant advised my physical will fet worse..there no more they can do but refer me to the pain clinic. This I told the 3 horrible hitlers in the tribunal room. Now tell me if this is wrong..the Dr was a right sarcastic cow to the point all confidentially ethics went out the window and infront of my unknowing daughtet..blabbed out a condition and other surgeries My FAMILY NEVER KNEW ABOUT! I butted in quickly and told them I refused to answer her invasive questions as they were over 26yrs ago, had not one relevance to any of my disability today nor at all. To then the JUDGE repeated my condition by saying "ok so you dont want to speak about (XYAND Z) That's when you had in 1993! My daughter went silent and bowed her head at disgust for THEM being so rude. Then another point Because I had 2 bad experiences of domestic violence that they forced out of me that had NO RELEVANCE to my application..the Dr looked at me and said "did you ho to mainstream school too"? I said I dont understand ,why have you asked me that....well she sarcadtically laughed..with all your relationship problems made me see you in a disabled school!! I dropped my jaw in utter shock..she had judged me as a mentally retarded pupil from a bad background!! THIS IS PIP?   IS THIS HOW THEY JUDGE YOU? WHY ASK SUCH INPERTINANT QUESTIONS! TO her...she knew everything..but didnt have any reality on common sense. I cried my eyes out! I knew they had judged me before i got in that room! They wouldnt tell me to me face..i had to wait 24hrs...i woke up next morning..opened letter..in simple terms!! No way! They knew my health is declining bad but they still wouldnt give me just 2. TWO points. I now have to hand back my car in 19 days! I begged them That my car is my independance and life...without it i will only exsist. THEY DID NOT CARE...NOW I WANT TO TALE IT TO UPPER TRIBUNAL. HAS ANYONE HERE DONE THAT???

Replies

  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    Hi,

    I'm sorry to hear this. Mostly people have good experiences at Tribunals. Unfortunately, if you condition had got worse then they wouldn't have been able to take that into consideration.

    You now have 1 month from the date of the decision to request the statement of reasons and record of proceeds. There's no timescales how long it will take to receive this but when you do, you need to find someone to take a look to find an error in law. If no error in law is found then i'm afraid you won't be able to take it to the Upper Tribunal.

    You can of course put in for a worsening of condition but do be aware than you could lose everything you already have. Before doing this i'd urge you to get some expert face to face advice from an agency near you. This link will help you find what's local to you.

    Proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice I have given to members here on the community.
  • DianeLDianeL Member Posts: 8 Listener
    Thank you for reading my Comment, on my bad experience of my tribunal. Yes I have sent only today a request of the judges statement of decision and CAB had been helping me before I went. And yes It was hard to hold back on "new" problems I have, and only ralk of problems and difficulties of the time I made my applicant to PIP. you see when Suffering with PTSD,anxiety,depression aswell as my disabilities I kept bursting into tears as my anxiety took over and then blurted out my medical conditions have got worse and not only last month my orthopedic surgeon..told me theres no more they can do. But I knew deep inside Thats would've gone on one ear and out the other. But when also asked how many miles is on my clock in the car..I got a mental block! Its like they was looking for any slip of tongue by myself And I probably did.  As When the man asked me At furst I was caught off guard, I explained I wouldnt have a clue I dont tend ro look at mileage..I guess i should but I wouldnt have a clue..I then blurted out ..maybe 10,000..maybe more I just dont know. Well to the gentleman that answer was enough for him to say "well it seems you have the car but dont use it that much ,but you say you rely on it 100% ..now i was totally mythed as Im not good at recording mileage and i have NEVER been asked that over the yrs of having a mobility car! He then took his pen and i can see he wrote "TEN THOU" SEE? when I finally got in my car ,oh boy I was ten times out!!! My mileage was over 100,000!! As had it for 3 and half yrs .... now why couldnt he ask to look at my clock, he knew I had driven it there and was directly outside. It may of helped seeing YES i made an on the spit wrong mistake that couldve gone for me if I knew i had to write it down! 
    I sit here and realise  They had NO INTENTION at all of helping me. I sit here in constant mind numbing Pain... i wish the 3 of them couldve wired themselves up to my body just so they knew what I have to put up with.  I am VERY HURT..AS How can I live now? I cant without a car..I know some will not understand my mind on this. But my car is my legs..my independence ... my life.  I will await the statement to arrive..then take it to CAB..OR A LOCAL LAW CENTRE ...can I ask....can you take a solicitor to tribunals??? As we watched one couple go in with a solicitor? Or it mightve been a different type of case hearing. 
     
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    Unfortunately, Enhanced mobility PIP isn't about how much you rely on your car. Whether you qualify for Enhanced mobility will depend on how your conditions affect you. Where you transferring from DLA?

    You can be represented at a Tribunal yes, welfare rights or a law centre will represent but you still need to speak for yourself during a hearing.
    Proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice I have given to members here on the community.
  • DianeLDianeL Member Posts: 8 Listener
    Oh yes I do understand. A car is secondary..but they fully know how my disability affects me on a daily basis.  I told them what my car means to me so I told them. But its the way they asked it was too intrusive. Yes I know they have a strict guidline on how they conduct the interview and i do respect that BUT its just how you get treated..its like some questions they asked and I gave my very honest answer..one just wasnt happy till she asked me again and again until I changed my answer to accept her guideline on paper and not my true answer..it was like "really"? I ASK again! Or I know Ive asked this but can you answer again...3-4 times I gave my honest answer..but its like she wasnt accepting it until I said as I felt pressured "well ok I guess if I am pushed..That i have my walking aids and I took all day to do that task then I could' she smiled as if to say..yep i got my answer and didnt say no more. Just like interogation. Not happy with my answers until they hear what they want to hear. Now I wish I took legal representation. Too late now. But I have applied for the judges statement. 
  • thespicemanthespiceman Member Posts: 6,408 Disability Gamechanger
    Hello @DianeL   Pleased to meet you .  Sorry to hear about your bad experiences at the tribunal.

    Shocking, stunned and do feel for you and understand.

    Having lost my car last year around September.  I am also been on the scheme a long time 20 years.

    Have a disability from birth.  Now in my early fifties have also may I add many similar experiences on a variety of assessments and tribunals.

    I do understand the anger, the hurt the pain the whole system we know as a community is causing problems and issues.

    Out of a long time doing them you expect to be treated fair and to be treated with dignity.

    Unfortunately this is not often the case in some instances my own experiences. Out of many assessments have had good and bad.

    All I know is I want to reassure you that you have to try a find a way to be strong and think positive.  

    My friend @poppy123456 has given you some links and lots of advice to look at.

    I will admit got emotional and upset when losing my lifeline and now realise that this has happened.  Took me a while to be calm and realised there are ways to be strong, ways to cope and so they have done this to me. Will not be beaten.

    You do survive you do cope you do adapt. Trust me

    This was causing mental harm and pain to my self.   

    Started to find ways to get about.  I have problems walking and do struggling with carrying and lifting.  

    Spent time concentrating on getting the benefits the support and help I need that is to me the most important aspects of being disabled mentally illness.

    Use on line shopping, plus everything is delivered.  Medications, household and anything else.

    I use taxis.  Many taxi firms know what is happening use them for appointments.  Anything else besides they can go places where your car can not. Parked outside the bank one time.

    One further point have saved a fortune in petrol car parking and additional expenses..

    There are other options such as renting a car.

    Please can I add speak to your local MP.  They need to know what is happening to our community.  Something to consider.

    Speak to CAB or welfare support look on line for anything.

    Please if I can help with anything further or a member of our team or our community. Please keep in touch.

    Take care.

    @thespiceman


    Community Champion
    SCOPE Volunteer Award Engaging Communities 2019
    Mental Health advice, guidance and information to all members
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  • DianeLDianeL Member Posts: 8 Listener
    Oh you are a sweetheart! Thank you..as it looks like we are dealing mainly with same things!! I have now been diagnosed with Addisons disease ..(adrenal failure) ive had test after test
    .im under 4 dif hospitals..2 are out of county..I was so wound up i forgot my rheumatoud appointment..i always go to my appointments but it left my brain! Now ive gotta start all over again..booking etc. Plus i realised I got so wound up i was giving wring answers my daughter reminded me..like i shouldve said 5 wks to a specific question i was so in tears..i said 5 months..that contradicted my answer i gave to them 10mins before. I sit here and i wish I recorded it as im so sure they shouldntve asked certain invasive questions.! I wish i can do it again! And fully explain why i accidentally got my wks and months mixed up..easily done but to them my answers were final. Has anyone else done that? I feel a fool..i feel so very lonely..i sit here mostly 7 days a week..I too am only in my early 50s..but they made me feel like a 5yr old!! I suffer with alot of mental issues like PRSD..DEORESSION ETC..i wouldve thought they wouldve catered for that. Yes I do most of the advice given and I am so appreciative of any help. I just want to be mobile... i worry more about my medical appointments. I cant bare public transport and get panic attacks.  
  • thespicemanthespiceman Member Posts: 6,408 Disability Gamechanger
    Hello @DianeL   Thank you very much.  First time being called that for a long time.  Sweetheart.

    I know the emotions around all of this your head and heart over the place.

    I am always here anytime to chat or talk and be supportive.

    I have and probably could fill an exercise book with the amount of mistakes and misunderstandings I have done.

    Never my fault or yours or any ones.  Remember these things do happen.  In stressful situations.

    Some sad some poignant some amusing to my self as I have met those on panels who are clueless have no idea.  Of our community.

    I suffer mental illness my self and have an addiction history and even though been clean think all alcoholism is something they have no idea about the different sorts and types. Its always a amazed the lack of clarity the lack of judgement all these medical professionals have.

    Bewildering and astounding so many times. The main other aspects of any tribunals or assessments is you learn from them.

    You are human and it is a very destressing time.  To give you accounts of how you are and what you need to say, the invasive questions.

    Please may I offer some advice first keep any records of tribunals, assessments.  Keep anything from the DWP or the Doctors medical reports everything in a folder.

    Booklets reference material you get from DWP regarding tribunals or assessments.

    Then if and when it has to happen to again use that for reading material.  Guidance next time.

    I have memory problems my self due to addiction .  Have a diary page a day in use.  Always using it to for appointments and post it notes.  Old Envelopes back of to second reminders.

    Look every day.  This is understandable losing memory have some problems.

    A lot of it is either the stress related to anxiety and depression which I am familiar with.

    Another piece of advice or guidance if suffering need some help with your mental health contact this mental health charity.

    https://www.richmondfellowship.org.uk.

    You can self refer. Might not be in all areas.  Get floating support and outreach workers.  They can help with wellbeing general advice with your health will take clientele with additional disabilities or conditions with mental health issues..

    This how I can help and assist and give you what I can .  In the form of advice and guidance.

    Through them you learn a lot.  

    Try to make some plans.  Regarding your loss of your car. Look on line make notes of what is there is in your area.

    Taxi firms look for those on YELL.  My taxi firm is great using them a lot.

    Charity called RVSP do volunteer drivers to appointments only in certain areas , my area not so.

    Have a look at their website.

    I am sorry you have been diagnosed with Addison's disease 

    Have a look to see if there is an Addison society or organisation on line.  I will go on line to see if I can to see what there is for you.

    What can they offer in form of support, guidance and advice.  

    All I can add if you can make some plans some organisation of your structure of your life and try to adapt if you can. You will cope the best you can

    Any problems remember a valued member of our community now. I am always here and happy to listen anytime.

    Please keep in touch let me know if I can help with anything.

    Please take care.

    @thespiceman















    Community Champion
    SCOPE Volunteer Award Engaging Communities 2019
    Mental Health advice, guidance and information to all members
    Nutrition, Diet, Wellbeing, Addiction.
    Recipes
  • thespicemanthespiceman Member Posts: 6,408 Disability Gamechanger
    edited August 2019
    Hello @DianeL   Have the following may be of interest as my last post to you.

    https://www.addisonsdisease.org.uk.

    Email enquiries @addisonsdisease .org.uk.

    Charity RVSP  

    Website for volunteer drivers to take you to any appointments might not be in your area.

    I would send an Email.

    https://www.volunteeringmatters.org.uk.

    Hope that helps you and gives you some reassurance.

    Best wishes

    Take care.

    @thespiceman
    Community Champion
    SCOPE Volunteer Award Engaging Communities 2019
    Mental Health advice, guidance and information to all members
    Nutrition, Diet, Wellbeing, Addiction.
    Recipes
  • bracabraca Posts: 86 Member
    Hello @ Dianel, sorry you were downgraded PIP award but do you really think that you qualify for PIP or were you just thinking that DLA award was appropriate to entitle you automaticly to PIP ? You have managed to bring up a loving family who can surely drive you around if needs be, or surely public transport can suffice, Maybe your evidence was not sufficient to allow you points on descriptors that you thought were entitled to and HCP thought correct decision was made on the day, Having good health is more important than a car.
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    It will also depend on how the case was presented. A poorly presented case can go against the claimant.
    Proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice I have given to members here on the community.
  • DianeLDianeL Member Posts: 8 Listener
    Braca..? I dont understand? I do have PIP..but of standard rate..they downgraded me..from high mobility indefinate award. It has nothing to do with how I brought up my family...all those years and physical medical evidance and past assessments have awarded me the indefinate award. But when I HAD to move to PIP as thousands are.theyre automatically downgrading alot to save the government money..some are even worse condition than me. This is about how they (PIP) Thinks they can now say even with all my medical evidance im gonna wake up in 2years fully recovered and healed! I do have daughters but none drive..so no no one can drive me..my parents are no longer with me..my eldest daughter was murdered in 2008...which has made my life sometimes unbearable to cope aswell as many problems physically . I DONT THINK YOU UNDERSTAND ..I am 95% housebound..i have conditions that stop me using public transport..as I have said before ..a car is a bonus..but its the way PIP,DWP treat some individuals as numbers rather than human beings. Sorry to say but your comment really upset me to tears....Im jot fighting JUST to get a car..but the principle of the award system. 
  • DianeLDianeL Member Posts: 8 Listener
    Poppy...the 3 people ..interogated me for 2hours in that room....they asked questions I feel they shouldntve..that had NO impact nor relevance to my interview and myself and my daughter came out shook up..my daughter was angry..but was not allowed to talk at all. She even said that the way they threw questions at me 3 of them..like goid cop bad cop was awful...without a legal representative I feel they get away with saying what they want! This is why I am waiting for the judges statement. That Braca has really upset me..i dint think she /he grasps reality of what had gone on and my life..my health issue are personal to me..but they disclosed things that my daughter never knew about...that had NOTHING to do with my mental health or disability!! For a Dr to break that code of ethics..I found it highly degrading and i told her to her face..I do not wish to talk about that as its personal with me and gp..but too late..she tried THREE times to bring it up and then the JUDGE mentioned it! I will seek legal advice if I do get a point of law. To make me cry..get into a state..they took no notice and just talked over me half the time. 
  • DianeLDianeL Member Posts: 8 Listener
    thespiceman. Thank you so much for these links...You are helping me so much..i have not slept properly since my decision... one on here says "its not all about getting a car" that has upset me as ...its nothing to do with that as such..but in another reply i made..its the principle of how the government think of disabled people and this benefit is to help us get around..yes the car is an added bonus and for most..imperative to get mobile..and get independence. I dont have that no more as once I could rely on myself ..now i must rely on others..thats what im getting that. .
  • thespicemanthespiceman Member Posts: 6,408 Disability Gamechanger
    Hello @DianeL   Thank you for replying back to me.  Sorry to hear you are hurt over comments made by one poster.

    Please can I stress what is important right now is you and how you are feeling.

    Please can I add focus what is needed to help you and guide to remain independent and mobile.

    I would evaluate everything. Consider the options take your time.

    This is what I had to do.  Sat down with a piece of paper jotting down notes.

    Finding sensible solutions first to combat any anxiety or stress and look at what needs to be done with a strong mind if you can.

    I have given you a lot of links please may I advise do these one at a time make a list

    What is important first.  Mental health would add that first.  I do not know where you live have a look on the website.

    Please I know you going to be nervous, anxious I am and was .  Sit down and ask what do I need from this service. This charity you can do this.

    Anything they can help with and advice, guidance. 

    Happy to hear you doing some of the things you are doing.  On line.

    Please I am so sorry to hear about your daughter this is never easy to understand for any one who has never been there and experienced the sudden trauma.

    Have you spoke to Cruse there a bereavement charity. I used them myself for all my addiction friends lost so many.

    https://www.cruse.org.uk.

    Helpline 0808 808 1677

    I am sorry what you have been through.  Please remember I am always here anytime .

    Wish you well . If need to have a chat or need to talk to me please get in touch.

    I do apologise on behalf of the forum as some members do have strong opinions and feelings and are insensitive.

    I know myself have been the target of those who wish to cause me harm and hurt .

    As a community champion I consider being part of the role respect, being sensitive, kind and being supportive at all times.

    You are not alone.  

    Take care.

    @thespiceman

    Community Champion
    SCOPE Volunteer Award Engaging Communities 2019
    Mental Health advice, guidance and information to all members
    Nutrition, Diet, Wellbeing, Addiction.
    Recipes
  • bracabraca Posts: 86 Member
    @DanieL sorry if my posts have upset you dear, but your position is that after tribunal you have been awarded Standard Daily Living and Standard Mobility, Now it is not for me to tell you that Standard Mobility allows you 50% discount on road tax and maybe use the lesser award to get yourself an older used car ?. I myself have an 9 year old car of my own and nothing owed to it and is suffice to myself when required for Doctors/Hospital visits and trips for weekly shopping, My PIP award allows me to buy good quality food that is important to my Health and condition along with paying gardener to cut grass and tidy up garden, Yes I do still require a car but prefer to use my PIP allowance in my own way, and in my view healthy eating and keeping my house in order is far more important than a brand new car every three years. once again sorry for upsetting you but just showing you what I have achieved with lesser award.
  • DianeLDianeL Member Posts: 8 Listener
    Im not asking for a zooped up brand new car at all..I just need 4 wheels..as long as the car is reliable..long mot..gets me from A to B. Thats all I need.  I did not realise I can get 50%off road tax..so I thank you for letting me know this. I guess being in my 50s..driven a car since 1999..with not one accident and clean licence..will help me alot in getting a reduced discount in insurance. That is my priority for me. I suffer with severe depression anxiety,PTSD my mental health..and having a car really settles me and I feel "safe" driving...so maybe you might understand why a car is more important than others. Being on my own and have had to do everything myself all my life..it has worn my spirit and soul and always been told what to do....it means alot for me to say now what I NEED,rather than being controlled by even PIP Universal credit,DWP..i cant live without their say so as they control my only income. Today the one letter I really needed to prove again to that panel..arrived,late!! It showed from the consiltant my diagnosis and future..not very good...IF ONLY that came last week..it may of helped. I did tell them and the Dr on the panel did comment "......yes I wouldve liked to of seen this letter it wouldve helped alot"..... I wish they postponed it ..but obviously I know they cant.  I live in Hertfordshire thespiceman, Saturday I had the worst breakdown..i sobbed and sobbed and told someone I just want to give up on life as I dont have one....its true..PIP do play God with our lives...
  • thespicemanthespiceman Member Posts: 6,408 Disability Gamechanger
    Hello @DianeL   Thanks for the reply. Sorry to hear your not well and feeling not good over the weekend.

    I do understand and  know it does hurt what has happened. 

    The problems and issues are now you have to ask yourself the questions.

    Where do I go from here ? What happens now?  You need to sit down and evaluate everything that is said to you.

    In previous posts and links look at how they can help you.

    I am here to give you reassurance and any support.

    Wish you well.

    Take care.

    @thespiceman


    Community Champion
    SCOPE Volunteer Award Engaging Communities 2019
    Mental Health advice, guidance and information to all members
    Nutrition, Diet, Wellbeing, Addiction.
    Recipes
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