PIP, DLA and AA
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PIP mobility component not for 65+

rosiejoerosiejoe Member Posts: 24 Courageous
Hi I applied on behalf of friend, already qualified for pip previous years. Now a pensioner so new claim. Went to assessment. Points are 1short for enhanced rate. original assessor actually put opposite  of what was said at assessment is his viewpoint. Went for mandatory, same points upheld. Reply reads" the law says that claimants over 65 or state pension age can't be considered for the award of the mobility component". Why then did or do they carry out that part of an assessment and award points. Are the points deliberately being kept under the "threshold".  Am confused. Also friend can't read, embarrassed to let anyone know so says it's dyslexia. Mandatory says no proof of dyslexia (true)& then says you got no help at school for this. Also they believe she can read and understand signs and plan a journey unaided.
1. Over 60 years ago no one got helpfir dyslexia to my knowledge
. 2 not born here and never ever attended school.
Do I appeal ( or not bother if not actually able to be awarded extra point)
 I could maybe get her GP to write supporting the not able to read if friend consents but....
Advice sought. And big thanks

Replies

  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    Hi,

    More information is needed please. Was this a transfer from DLA? Or was it a change of circumstances and she was already claiming PIP?
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • rosiejoerosiejoe Member Posts: 24 Courageous
    My appeal not really going to be based on the mobility points. I was just surprised to read the bit about pensioners not being entitled.  Friend was already on pip, that had to be be reassessed ( I believe because of the age change/and off of ESA to pension,I could be wrong) the reason why she was eligible to reapply even though of pensionable age as been on it before. I am more concerned that they insist that she can "read" complex written matter. No reading test was taken. I reckon I should go for appeal.
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    As she was of pension age then i'm afraid DWP are correct, she won't be able to claim the mobility part because she didn't previously receive this. She can now only claim the daily living part.


    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • rosiejoerosiejoe Member Posts: 24 Courageous
    Just wondering why they actually assessed her for this then. Gave 2 points.
     So what you're saying is even if you'd previously claimed pip, prior to hitting 65 you'd not be able to qualify for mobility at std or enhanced rate anyhow. Surely that is  age discrimination? Think the forms should be more clearer. Thanks I will just appeal for the extra point on the living part.
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    They assess her because PIP has daily living and mobility parts but because she's over state pension age then she can't be awarded it because she didn't claim it before reaching state pension age.

    If she was claiming the mobility part before reaching this age then she would keep it for as long as she remained entitled to it. If she only had the standard rate before this age then she wouldn't be able to claim Enhanced rate.
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • rosiejoerosiejoe Member Posts: 24 Courageous
    Don't think she had the mobility part before reaching state pension age. So really they shouldn't have assessed her for it, if not entitled before. I think some transparency within the document is needed. I can and will appeal the daily living bit. Am assuming she can go for enhanced even if previously it was standard? Or is that also limited. Thank you for your response, most helpful and appreciated
  • cristobalcristobal Member Posts: 966 Disability Gamechanger
    edited August 2019

    ... friend can't read, embarrassed to let anyone know so says it's dyslexia. Mandatory says no proof of dyslexia (true)& then says you got no help at school for this. Also they believe she can read and understand signs and plan a journey unaided.

    @rosiejoe - if your friend can't read, but this isn't as the result of a health condition, then this won't be considered...

    Can I suggest that you take care - as you mention that you plan to get her GP to write a supporting letter..
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    The daily living can be appealed yes and the first step is to request the MR within one month of the date of the decision. I'd advise you to speak to an advice centre near you.
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • rosiejoerosiejoe Member Posts: 24 Courageous
    Already done MR took 10 weeks, no change, so now I appeal.ta
  • rosiejoerosiejoe Member Posts: 24 Courageous
    Cristobal. Points were awarded previously And on ESA as well. No medical,. Etc brain damage etc. I understand what you are saying,I will double check criteria. Thanks
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    I'm assuming she had Enhanced daily living previously?

    ESA and PIP are different benefits with different criteria.
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • SwordfishSwordfish Member Posts: 54 Pioneering
    Does this apply pensioners? I'm 69 next month and waiting for M.R.for pip..I'm not holding my breath for that, preparing for tribunal , and I'm repaying overpayment.  😟
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    Swordfish said:
    Does this apply pensioners? I'm 69 next month and waiting for M.R.for pip..I'm not holding my breath for that, preparing for tribunal , and I'm repaying overpayment.  😟
    If you were previously claiming PIP and you didn't have a mobility award at all then you won't be able to claim it anytime in the future. If you had Standard mobility then you will be able to be awarded this by the Tribunal but you won't be awarded Enhanced mobility because of your age.

    If you are transferring from DLA then you will be able to claim any mobility award.
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • MisscleoMisscleo Member Posts: 646 Pioneering
    This is important. Surely the over 65s are more likely to have mobility problems. So they will NEED more money to get about.
    That should be commonsense 
  • cristobalcristobal Member Posts: 966 Disability Gamechanger
    Misscleo said:
    This is important. Surely the over 65s are more likely to have mobility problems. So they will NEED more money to get about.
    That should be commonsense 
    @misscleo - don't forget that PIP relates to a health condition not the fact that you become less mobile as you get older.


  • cristobalcristobal Member Posts: 966 Disability Gamechanger
    @rosiejoe -I don't know anything about ESA but this might help as regards PIP...

    If the claimant cannot read, this must be as a direct result of their health condition or impairment e.g. visual impairment, cognitive impairment, learning disability. Illiteracy or lack of familiarity with written English are not health conditions and should not be considered, except where they arise as a consequence of a sensory or cognitive impairment.
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    cristobal said:

    @misscleo - don't forget that PIP relates to a health condition not the fact that you become less mobile as you get older.


    This is the exact reason that mobility can't be claimed by those of state pension age and above, if they don't already claim it. It's because the older a person gets the more chance they have of becoming less able to walk because of age.
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    ESA is a working age benefit and can't be claimed by those of state pension age.
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • rosiejoerosiejoe Member Posts: 24 Courageous
    Yes I know. I understand they are different benefits . Was just saying that at the time friend qualified under that reading section. 
  • SwordfishSwordfish Member Posts: 54 Pioneering

    Both Disability Living Allowance and Personal Independence Payment (which is replacing DLA) provide help with the extra costs disabled people face when getting around. The DLA or PIP mobility component can continue to be paid indefinitely, but there is an upper age limit of 65 for new claims. This means that some older people cannot get benefits for mobility needs and cannot access linked schemes such as Motability.

    Jump to full report >>

    What mobility benefits are available?

    Disability Living Allowance (DLA) is a benefit to help people with the extra costs of being disabled. The mobility component of DLA – for help with getting around – is paid at two different levels. The care component – for help with personal care needs – is paid at three levels. For people of working age, DLA is being replaced by Personal Independence Payment (PIP), which has a mobility component and a “daily living” component, each of which has two rates (“standard” and “enhanced”).

    DLA and PIP age rules

    For both DLA and PIP, there has always been an upper age limit for new claims. People can continue to get DLA or PIP beyond the age of 65, if they continue to satisfy the relevant disability tests, but new claims must have been made before the person’s 65th birthday. Attendance Allowance (AA) may be claimed by people aged 65 or over with care needs, but it has no mobility component.

    Effect on other benefits

    The upper age limit for new DLA or PIP claims means that people with health problems or disabilities which emerge only after they have reached 65 cannot get help through the benefits system for mobility needs. It also means that they are unable to access other benefits which are linked to receipt of the DLA or PIP mobility component, including the Motability scheme and exemption from Vehicle Excise Duty.

    Why is there an upper age limit?

    Successive governments have justified the age limit for new claims on cost grounds and the need to give priority to those disabled earlier in life, who are likely to have had less opportunity to work, earn and save than those with mobility needs emerging only after they reach 65.

    Isn't this discrimination?

    It is often argued that this constitutes age discrimination, but the courts have ruled that the age limit is not unlawful.

  • rosiejoerosiejoe Member Posts: 24 Courageous
    I lovecats.     Thank you your reply and definition. Personally I think it is discrimination however I now have to prove there is a cognitive or disability issue causing this.because of age and non attendance of school, labels/help were not in situ back in the 60s. Only a dunces hat. For an assessor to assess that this person can read complex  works without carrying out any tests or asking relevant questions is appalling.  Hopefully Gp will support her with evidence. Thanks 
  • rosiejoerosiejoe Member Posts: 24 Courageous
    Managed an eye test. Nothing else. Cannot read full stop. I believe there is an disability or cognitive reason. This age group from a different time, a sheltered life, protected from society until parent died. Do not think testing will happen now, too stressful. I will appeal. 
  • rosiejoerosiejoe Member Posts: 24 Courageous
    Thanks. I understand the reasoning why. However no assessor has any right to make such a statement that in their opinion a claimant can read complex matter without seeing any prove. Basically called a liar and if that the case surely the claim should be marked as fraudulent. I will now prove cognitive issues. Nothing changes within atos etc even when numerous cases are then upheld. No assessor is answerable. Dwp use a service so it's a subcontractor. It's appalling. The most vulnerable walked over imo.  I take up a few cases for free. These people need a voice. It's no wonder so many give up, end up on the streets and commit suicide. I know there are plenty out there suffering. System loaded against weakest. I know it takes alsorts to do this job, it's better paid than nursing etc hence the staff it attracts. But I believe it all needs overhauling and there needs to be more transparency and accountability. Thanks for the input.
  • kezhendo73kezhendo73 Member Posts: 34 Courageous
    Sorry to but in,
     But wow I never  knew this about the over 65s 

    So you could have a man who served say 30 years in the army and fought for his country and he comes out about 50 and does a few different jobs over the years paid his taxes and then retires now he is loving life until he falls badly and damages his leg.
    He is left with next to no mobility so he puts in for pip will he is told he can't claim for mobility.?
    If so it is disgusting, yet there is people who have  never lived in this country but after two years they can claim pip how wrong us this system 
  • cristobalcristobal Member Posts: 966 Disability Gamechanger
    @rosiejoe - please think very carefully about where you go with this so that you don't get into trouble.

    You say that the assessor has called you a liar but also that you friend claimed that she has dyslexia when she hasn't, which could easily be considered fraudulent as you say.

    Whatever you think of the assessor they have correctly identified that dyslexia isn't the cause of the problem.

    Personally I'd leave it there - but you must do what you think best..

    Good luck whatever you decide...


  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    Sorry to but in,
     But wow I never  knew this about the over 65s 

    So you could have a man who served say 30 years in the army and fought for his country and he comes out about 50 and does a few different jobs over the years paid his taxes and then retires now he is loving life until he falls badly and damages his leg.
    He is left with next to no mobility so he puts in for pip will he is told he can't claim for mobility.?
    If so it is disgusting, yet there is people who have  never lived in this country but after two years they can claim pip how wrong us this system 
    They wouldn't be able to claim PIP at all if they are over state pension age. At this age it's Attendance Allowance and there's no mobility part to this. DLA was exactly the same. Paying taxes has nothing to do with claiming a disability benefit.
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • cristobalcristobal Member Posts: 966 Disability Gamechanger

    If so it is disgusting, yet there is people who have  never lived in this country but after two years they can claim pip how wrong us this system 

    @kezhendo73 - I believe that the rules are the same wherever you come from.

     So someone who, for example, is a refugee who did thirty years in the army, came out at 50 paid taxes etc etc wouldn't be able to claim PIP either...

  • david235david235 Member Posts: 170 Pioneering
    The rule that your mobility entitlement can only stay the same or go down once you reach state pension age goes right back to the original Mobility Allowance, which became DLA Mobility Component. This means that those who have PIP Mobility Component can renew it after they reach state pension age so long as they continue to meet the criteria.

    Whilst it is arguable that this rule is age discrimination, not all discrimination is unlawful. In any event, pensioner benefits are, generally speaking, more generous than working age benefits, though this is only a generalisation.


    For those that want a history:

    Attendance Allowance came into existence in 1971. In 1975 a Mobility Allowance was created following lobbying from disabled people who did not want an Invacar - many felt the Invacar was divisive, also you could not legally carry a passenger in an Invacar. Initially people had the option of Mobility Allowance or an Invacar, but the option to have an Invacar for the first time was removed in 1981. The few Invacars that remained in the hands of Invalid Vehicle Scheme recipients were all withdrawn in 2003 on safety grounds. The original Mobility Allowance had one rate, equivalent to higher rate mobility DLA.

    In 1992 DLA replaced Mobility Alllowance and Attendance Allowance for children and working age people - it rebranded these two benefits into one benefit of two components. DLA added a lower rate care component (middle and higher rate care DLA use the same criteria and are the same amounts as the lower and higher rate of Attendance Allowance). DLA also added a lower rate mobility component.

    Pensioners remained on the Attendance Allowance system in 1992. The separate Mobility Allowance disappeared.

    In 2013, PIP replaced DLA for working age adults. Children under 16 and existing DLA claimants who had already reached state pension age remain on DLA - all other DLA claimants will eventually move to PIP.
  • rosiejoerosiejoe Member Posts: 24 Courageous
    Christbal. The dyslexia label came out from friend, her way to cover her embarrassment, ( don't think she even knows  what it means)  about her inability to read. possibly due to other undiagnosed impairments. I have no problems calling it out, nothing to hide nothing to fear. I thought the interviewer was quite insensitive to be honest and quite crass imo asking questions about what sort of sanitary products , specifically, saying you wear front loading bras, this was a vulnerable adult of pensionable age. But that complaint ongoing. 
  • rosiejoerosiejoe Member Posts: 24 Courageous
    They haven't identifed that dyslexia isn't the problem. No testing done.  all They haven't proved that she can read either. It's all assumptive on 45 minutes. The whole process is flawed imo and needs overhauling. If I had more time available I would take this right to the top authority etc.  If more people challenged the whole set up, the assessors etc maybe something else will change and not just the "atos"  rebranding  which is what happened after the last bad press. Accountability first. Hopefully some whistle blowers emerge. Lol
  • cristobalcristobal Member Posts: 966 Disability Gamechanger
    @rosiejoe - I don't disagree with a lot of what you say - my assessor wasn't very pleasant either...
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