Mentally ill person is terrorising half of the estate

iza

Hi, on my estate mentally ill person is terrorising neighbours over the estate (strong antisocial incidents  caused by this person are reported  either to Council, Police or ASB for the last 3 years by all affected people).
This person is still acting antisocially towards others. 
Seeking advice of your similar life experience.
How was it handled by your Council?
Is it worthy to think to be relocated myself or expecting for her relocation? 
If you think I should ask to be relocated then please advice me how all the process looks like?
I am living  with my 9 years old boy. 
All tenants are council tenants. I just live next door to her (top flats).
Other neighbours lives on the  ground and first floor. 
Personally,  I do suffer medical condition myself, I am on ESA.  Due to my medical condition  I see myself vulnerable, I am ot allowed to stress as stress deteriorate my medical condition.   Other neighbours are health but with families also tired of all the situation. 
Please advice, explain the process or share experience. 

All info really appreciated. 

P.S. Please consider I am not going write letters of complains to Local Ombudsmen as I do not see it can to bring solution to the problem. 

Thanks 

Iza 

April2018mom

How awful! Can you move away or not? If you are not going to complain about this, that is the only option left to try. It is a shame when someone ruins it for others, isn’t it?
Try ringing the council tomorrow. Politely describe what is occuring now and ask if they can help you move quietly. Alternatively, what about asking a high street estate company for help? Do you own your estate or do you rent? Have you researched all options?
This link has more information https://www.pocklington-trust.org.uk/need-move-urgently-dont-feel-safe-i-living-now/
Mention your concerns. Explain you have a child to look after too. Their welfare is also important to you. To formally report what is going on, use this link. Do not delay either. Since you say you have a medical condition, this is disability hate crime which is a offence technically. Never forget that. 
https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/law-and-courts/discrimination/hate-crime/
Do not ignore this. This is a safeguarding concern. Have you involved the police? I recommend contacting them in case this escalates further. They may be able to protect you from this person in the future. You have a right to feel safe at home.  
What do other residents say? How long has this been happening? Start to gather evidence to use in a court case. This is abuse. But also look at the wider picture here, and that person needs professional help. The sooner he gets it the better for all concerned in the issue. I know this is hard but stay strong for your child! 

iza

Hi @April2018mom, 

Council knows about it, Police knows about it and ASB teams knows about it. All people reports as according to incidents. I am council tenant, other neighbours too and the mentally ill person is council tenant too. But so far know proper solution brought towards situation. It is happening third year in the round. Mayer of my brought was also notified. Still awaiting his feedback and what he is planning to do.  The incidents were flag up to Mental Health Team however they acting slowly to help the woman or she is rejecting to cooperate with them. 

Thank you for your suggestions  , I will check them tomorrow. 

April2018mom

Say you are afraid (assuming this is true of course!) to them. Keep us posted on further events. Start planning for the worst however and ask for a valuation of your property in case it comes to that. 

iza

Hi @April2018mom, as I explained it is ongoing for 3 year in a round and  all people know what is going on but everyone wonder why nothing is so done to help her or relocate her. Or why they do not come with better options for us.

Thanks 

April2018mom

iza said:

Hi @April2018mom, as I explained it is ongoing for 3 year in a round and  all people know what is going on but everyone wonder why nothing is so done to help her or relocate her. Or why they do not come with better options for us.

Thanks 

Have you contacted the media or not? Also consult with a experienced housing lawyer too. Best wishes! 

david235

@iza - what a difficult and demanding situation this is.

I can see how this situation might fall through the gaps. Many criminal offences require the action to be deliberate or be as a result of taking a known risk in order for criminal liability to arise; it may be that her mental health means this mens rea element is in doubt as well as it being debatable whether it is in the public interest to prosecute her. The threshold to force someone to accept treatment under the Mental Health Act 1983 is high, and the threshold to force her into inpatient care against her will is higher still. A judge would probably be loath to grant any sort of injunction against her that she was likely to breach because of her health. The council cannot force her to move against her will and her agreement to voluntary rehoming would just move the problem elsewhere, so the council are unlikely to pursue that course of action. Eviction for anti-social behaviour would be a discretionary matter for the court in the absence of a relevant conviction - and it could be resisted on the basis that she is not necessarily responsible for choosing her anti-social actions and perhaps also on the ground of disability discrimination. If she was evicted, it is possible that, in the circumstances, she would be unintentionally homeless and the council have an obligation to house her - so she would still be the council's responsibility. Even if not unintentionally homeless following eviction, this woman and her problems will not just go away. None of the authorities involved can tell you what, if anything, they are doing with or about her, because that would be a breach of data protection legislation.

I am not the greatest expert on social housing law or mental health law - but my feeling is that you can do no more than bring your concerns to the authorities and leave them to engage with her.

I know it perhaps feels a bit like being pushed out of your home when you have done nothing wrong, but if this is affecting you and/or your son so badly, maybe asking to be rehoused is the best option. Certainly I would explore your options with a housing officer, and perhaps also get one or more of your ward councillors involved (especially if you have not done so already).

I can see some attraction in going to the media, but I am not sure how it helps. However frustrating the situation is, it seems that this person is mentally ill and has inherent dignity as any human being does. I'm not sure anyone would want the uncomfortable (or worse) details of their health in the media. Indeed, the media may well decide that her right to privacy outweighs any public interest in them running the story - or if they did so, they would anonymise it so much that it would be hardly recognisable. It might bring backlash on you if the story was in the media, especially if some element of the public took the view that "she's ill and she can't help it". Media exposure is unlikely to pressurise the authorities who would likely just issue a bland statement along the lines of of "we are aware of iza's concerns and continue to work with her and her neighbours".

iza

Hi @david235, I am very grateful and really appreciated for your honest opinion on the discussion topic.  Sounds like  you said truly what no one else  is brave enough to say or admire to me or to all off us. 

However,  we all know that she is mentally ill but  no one states that antisocial behaviour is cause because of her illness. I noticed that she is just meant to people because she wants to be the "bad" one and act like that. She was so bad and it got to the stage  she vandalise peoples cars and so more... 

She been in hospital from November 2018 till February 2019  but since she back to the flat after 2 months all started back again. I do not see anyone coming to help her or to support her, either to review her. Sound like no-one is putting any effort to help her at the moment. I know all was flag up with Mental Health Department. 

In general I respect live and I try to respect all people no matter of their personal life circumstances. 
But if we ignore her behaviour and than suddenly something worse will happen all authorities will try to say " why no-one told us about it". Is very easy to ignore people, pretending that we all live only our life but we live in communities not in little sheds in the forest miles away from each others. 

But by living in communities more of us desire peace without additional stress. I am very sensitive to stress and my medical condition does usually deteriorate from it. 

I contacted the Mayor of my borough  but not any of the ward councillors. All other authorities are informed too. 
I heard from Police Officers Neighbour Team last year that she is rejecting to get engage. 
If that is the true we have here the vicious cycle. 

I am thinking about re-housing as an option if nothing change soon.
But I am afraid that I could be re-housed to much worse Estate.
Our estate is quite safe place with families who have kids almost in one school.
 We know more or less ourselves and so far no any risk factor or crimes reported here (of course apart incident caused my this ill woman). 

I spoke to people to get their opinion about re-housing. They said that it is her who should be rehouse not me or anyone else. 

Perhaps when she would be re-housed the new environment would benefit her as  she would be between new group of people, see new faces and even get along with people related to her background of country she comes from. 
This is my feelings it could help her. By keeping her in existing location only postponing her potential long term future recovery. 

Thanks Iza 

iza

Hi @woodbine, yes it is been for a bit long time now. It is third year in round. I emailed to Mayor of my borough already.
How MP or local councillor could help? I assumed a Mayor has more authority power in general. Do I am right ? 
Thanks 

iza

Hi @woodbine, what action the councillor could get ?
Please set up the example for me.

So far I never asked any councillor personally myself in terms to look out for  solutions for existing problems in life. I never also met anyone who would said that the councillor or MP would truly help them.
I met actually couple people who found themselves nor very supported once they tried to reach the MP to help them with their case. 

Do you know anyone who councillors /MP's would truly help? 

newborn

It appears from the post that the antisocial lady is  not supported  by having any neighbours  from her country of origin.    It's true that people tend to feel  more settled when in familiar groups, speaking  the same language,  talking of things they have in common,  possibly sharing  information about  where to get hard to find ingredients  for a traditional dish.  That's  why people tend to cluster, if they have a free choice of where to live.

Lots of Brits in  Benidorm, lots of Irish in Liverpool,  and so on.   Council housing  policies  should, but normally don't, take that into account.     However, in this exceptional case, the lady could reasonably expect them to 'adjust the service offered,' in order do two things at the same time:- 

 Put every effort, using all agencies, into tracing a little  community,  even if in another borough,  where she will fit right in, and by hook or crook ensure  she can be  offered accommodation there.  Simultaneously,  they can use cctv to collare evidence, and can offer to  place professional  outside witnesses to lodge with neighbours, just long enough to experience what is happening,  so they can go to court without being  in fear.  Prepare the legal footing to evict her for antisocial behaviour.    

A court won't  refuse an eviction order and a replacement,  highly controlled restrictive tenancy term elsewhere, where the move is positively in the interests of the antisocial  tenant .    The new 'good behaviour ' tenancy would have the benefit of being part of court proceedings,  so could include clauses on making contact with authorities  to assist  her health condition,  as well as having court order backing for enforcement of penalties for breach.  A tenant can ignore the housing office,  but  can not risk going to prison for  contempt of court,   

Different authorities and different countries have solved this in innovative ways.   Best follow best practice.  

One difficult person,  or one family, can wreck hundreds of lives, if councils fail to take measures to ensure the peaceful enjoyment  of their homes.  They must not abandon their duty to the the many  by refusing to  protect them from the unchecked, unsanctioned ravages inflicted  by the few.     

iza

Hi @newborn, your way of thinking sounds really professional. I wish somebody from the authorities in my borough read what you said. Sounds like you could easily advice them on that matter. They could learn lots from you. Thank you 

JulietFox

iza said:

Hi @david235, I am very grateful and really appreciated for your honest opinion on the discussion topic.  Sounds like  you said truly what no one else  is brave enough to say or admire to me or to all off us. 

However,  we all know that she is mentally ill but  no one states that antisocial behaviour is cause because of her illness. I noticed that she is just meant to people because she wants to be the "bad" one and act like that. She was so bad and it got to the stage  she vandalise peoples cars and so more... 

She been in hospital from November 2018 till February 2019  but since she back to the flat after 2 months all started back again. I do not see anyone coming to help her or to support her, either to review her. Sound like no-one is putting any effort to help her at the moment. I know all was flag up with Mental Health Department. 

In general I respect live and I try to respect all people no matter of their personal life circumstances. 
But if we ignore her behaviour and than suddenly something worse will happen all authorities will try to say " why no-one told us about it". Is very easy to ignore people, pretending that we all live only our life but we live in communities not in little sheds in the forest miles away from each others. 

But by living in communities more of us desire peace without additional stress. I am very sensitive to stress and my medical condition does usually deteriorate from it. 

I contacted the Mayor of my borough  but not any of the ward councillors. All other authorities are informed too. 
I heard from Police Officers Neighbour Team last year that she is rejecting to get engage. 
If that is the true we have here the vicious cycle. 

I am thinking about re-housing as an option if nothing change soon.
But I am afraid that I could be re-housed to much worse Estate.
Our estate is quite safe place with families who have kids almost in one school.
 We know more or less ourselves and so far no any risk factor or crimes reported here (of course apart incident caused my this ill woman). 

I spoke to people to get their opinion about re-housing. They said that it is her who should be rehouse not me or anyone else. 

Perhaps when she would be re-housed the new environment would benefit her as  she would be between new group of people, see new faces and even get along with people related to her background of country she comes from. 
This is my feelings it could help her. By keeping her in existing location only postponing her potential long term future recovery. 

Thanks Iza 

Iza, everything within your discussion - Ive been through and am still going through after 5 years only with 2 neighbours that I and my partner have suffered and other neighbours have too. Police have told me on separate occasions both parties suffer mental conditions. 
I live below one bad neighbour and the other lives a few doors away, he has had armed police at his door, taken to court by previous neighbour for stalking, harassing and racial abuse. 
My housing association are "filth" (sorry its the only word that describes them) i have gone to meetings with them after ive complained with evidence - receive a contract behaviour agreement and  told neighbour above will never be moved.
Same neighbour assaulted my partner and I, she tried to gain entry to our house, and damage our property, gave me 2nd death threat, all footaged and nothing happened from housing or police.

I am classed as disabled and suffer greatly with health conditions especially when stressed.
Another incident with the other neighbour, i defended myself and warned him, still in my face, gave him minimal push with one hand and he acted greatly to be a victim but the footage caught him out though but had debate with housing told them theres rules for one type of person and rules for the other....pull your fingers out of your.....he hold me any more issue with either 3 neighbours, each will get Notice of proceedings for eviction.  Nothing else happened before I received
N.O.P. for Eviction, but other 2 didnt get one!!!
Next thing, Im demanded to fill in Community Resolution and was told seeing as you havent given your version of accounts, you'll be able to at station if refusing to sign.
Went station and my solicitor was told if i speak the case will go CPS.
So had to sign. Ive never been in trouble in my life!! I have conditions, i struggle with and try hard, working hard.
Next thing, ive done nothing wrong I receive Notice for proceedings for eviction.
Ive been in touch with the world and his dog, and nobody wants to know.
Housing take easy option, the person who moans most and LOOKS fine and well, will be their resolution!!
Only this morning the neighbour a few doors away woke all neighbourhood up shouting and videoing another neighbours doorcam. All footaged but police and housing in my case have shown bias and discrimination.
I dont see why Iza that you should go through all the stress and cost and move to another housing tenancy that may have similar issues.
Why shouldn't people - no matter what your illness is, be treated as equals.  You commit asbo behaviour and youre dealt with or moved on.

Iza, im telling you my story not to advise but for you to know, this is happening everywhere. 

Ive written to the media, ive complained to housing 2stage complaint, complained to Chief Inspector of Cheshire Police, PSD, IOPC, MP, Councillor and .....havent got many positives. Im wishing on a star.
 
I dont see why you should move, youre in exactly the same shoes as me, when it comes to your housing estate is quite a good one and else where will more than likely be worse.

Im thinking of re-approaching media, as it needs to be broadcast to the wider web of what really goes on and how people are victimized against.
Good luck with your decision and moving forward.

JulietFox

Iza, Apologies - my partner sent me your initial comment as it was so similar to our problem - on my phone, I couldn't find date of your comment.  Now on computer - I see your complaint was from 2019!!  Hope you're in a much better situation either in the 2019 property or else where.
I would be interested in knowing your outcome to this present day.
Kind Regards  Juliet

Luchia

Hey

It sounds truly awful what you are going through  

I haven’t personally been in the situation but I can offer a little advice.

RECORD EVERYTHING!
Keep a diary of every single event and include police crime numbers etc, record every time you have had to call the police and council.
If you can take audio and video on your phone or you can buy one of the Wi-Fi CCTV Cameras for around £15-20 on Amazon if that’s any help.

If your on good terms with your nice neighbours then ask them to do the same, also get everyone to write a letter to council explaining what’s happening, how it makes you feel etc and send them all recorded delivery(only send copies, keep the originals safe)

I know this sounds stressful but it helps to gather every bit of evidence you can

I don’t think you should move home if you’re happy with your home and other neighbours, it does sound really rough what’s happening but no one should force you out of your home.

You can also ask the council to provide sound monitoring equipment(Which they have to provide and setup correctly for you)

If you have any visitors that witness anything get them to also write a letter with what happened etc.

Please do keep us updated on the situation and I really do hope it’s resolved quickly for you 

Alex_Alumni

Hi there @JulietFox and thank you for reaching out, I'm sorry to hear about the situation, and that you feel so let down by your housing association and the Police. 

I'm glad you've at least found some support here on the community, in knowing that you're not alone, which I know might only be a small comfort, but if it is helpful to spend time here, please do. 

Would you mind me asking if the abuse you mention from a neighbour was reported? For somewhere to go for additional support, I'd encourage you to contact Victim Support, as this is probably having a big impact on your mental health and wellbeing. 

I'm also sorry to hear about your notice for eviction, you might like to reach out to Shelter, who can advise on housing issues, if you need more tailored support. They have an emergency helpline, and a webchat too.

If we can do anything further to support you, please ask!

Luna51

Hi @iza

I would suggest (if you haven't already?) applying to your local council for something called a  'Anti-social behaviour case review' (formally known as a 'Community Trigger') 
If the issues in your community have been ongoing for 6 months or more, you can ask for this (you will need to provide notes of the dates and types of incidents for the application reference) if the request is successful, all parties involved including the housing association, the police and local council will have to review the case and work together to achieve an agreeable outcome for all involved. 

Link with more information below. 

Best Wishes 

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/anti-social-behaviour-asb-case-review-also-known-as-the-community-trigger

iza

Hi @Luna51, thank you very much for the information and link. I am awaiting investigation by Local Ombudsman at the moment. 

L_Volunteer

How are you feeling at the moment @iza whilst awaiting an investigation by Local Ombudsman? Please don't hesitate to let us know if you would like to talk about this or if there's anything else we can do to support you 

iza

Hi @L_Volunteer, thank you very much for asking. 

I am patiently waiting and to carry on a normal living but the neighbour continues her actions which are reported as usually. 

Personally, I had been affected by last 7 years ( my son complains that she damaged his childhood and I must say he is right, she truly damaged his entire childhood).
 I never wish anyone to have a neighbour  like her. 

Personally, I can’t stand anymore her presence on our Estate no matter how serious her health problems are. People with such serious mental health problems should not live on Estate among families bringing up little children.  They should be located/ relocated in supervised accommodation and live in areas  which truly will benefit them. Any other person with normal state who would do what she did to all of us would be arrested straight away after first incident but she was only sanctioned 5 x and still does what she wants.

The Drs who came  to assess her here every time were escorted by police. We live next door without any escort of police for last 7 years and need to function normally on a daily basis no matter how aggressive she was/ is / or will be. 

Is that fair ? Would be Drs coming to assess her here without escort of police? 

If they are afraid of her how they let us live next to her for several years? 

This is how I feel. 

I live with questions in my mind. Analysing how terrible our life was for the last 7 years. 

Along problems with her I had to manage by own health, bring my child up on my own without any bodies support, manage to win court case about benefits, manage to travel to home country to take care of my paralysed mum, survive all life storms and keep up with everything up to date,  survive Covid and sorts of any issues. 

Now - there  is nothing more important for me than justice !  

And those all people from my Council and public figures representing the borough who are in charge of her and her mental health and who should help her and support all of us and who know about existing problem with her ( as they all be emailed)  come to the church and read the Bible showing  publicly off how much they believe in God and show off how much religious they are or how much passionate  about Jesus life they all are - live me with question in my mind : Do we truly believe in the same God ? 

Luchia

iza said:

Hi @L_Volunteer, thank you very much for asking. 

I am patiently waiting and to carry on a normal living but the neighbour continues her actions which are reported as usually. 

Personally, I had been affected by last 7 years ( my son complains that she damaged his childhood and I must say he is right, she truly damaged his entire childhood).
 I never wish anyone to have a neighbour  like her. 

Personally, I can’t stand anymore her presence on our Estate no matter how serious her health problems are. People with such serious mental health problems should not live on Estate among families bringing up little children.  They should be located/ relocated in supervised accommodation and live in areas  which truly will benefit them. Any other person with normal state who would do what she did to all of us would be arrested straight away after first incident but she was only sanctioned 5 x and still does what she wants.

The Drs who came  to assess her here every time were escorted by police. We live next door without any escort of police for last 7 years and need to function normally on a daily basis no matter how aggressive she was/ is / or will be. 

Is that fair ? Would be Drs coming to assess her here without escort of police? 

If they are afraid of her how they let us live next to her for several years? 

This is how I feel. 

I live with questions in my mind. Analysing how terrible our life was for the last 7 years. 

Along problems with her I had to manage by own health, bring my child up on my own without any bodies support, manage to win court case about benefits, manage to travel to home country to take care of my paralysed mum, survive all life storms and keep up with everything up to date,  survive Covid and sorts of any issues. 

Now - there  is nothing more important for me than justice !  

And those all people from my Council and public figures representing the borough who are in charge of her and her mental health and who should help her and support all of us and who know about existing problem with her ( as they all be emailed)  come to the church and read the Bible showing  publicly off how much they believe in God and show off how much religious they are or how much passionate  about Jesus life they all are - live me with question in my mind : Do we truly believe in the same God ? 

I can’t see how religion has anything to do with it???

Unfortunately evictions can be a lengthy process with the council more so when mental health is involved but I do hope things start progressing for you soon