Pip assessors report

pandora86

hello, im writing this on behalf my mum who was awarded higher rate dla lifetime award since 2015. Obviously now being transferred over to PIP. She recently had her f2f assessment accompanied with me which was extremely difficult for her due to pain and anxiety.

i requested her pip assessment report which came through today (still waiting for the decision letter) from what i have understood she loses her enhanced mobility award by 2 points! Obviously i know we have to wait for the decision letter to come through before requesting a MR, but what i noticed on the report were that the assessor had written that my mum was not trembling or sweating therefore did not suffer anxiety and was not deemed to have any cognitive impairment as she had good memory.

now firstly i want to say that my mum did not even speak a word to the assessor as she suffers from social anxiety and there was never a “memory test” preformed! But the assessor had written my mum had good tone of voice and apparently reads and understands everything which i want to laugh out loud about.

how do i convince dwp to reconsider question 11 planning and following journeys? My mum cannot plan a journey let alone go by herself, she has severe anxiety and is so doses up on pain meds is often confused and drowsy.

please help! 

wilko

@pandora86, hello and welcome, most people moving from DLA to PIP lose their enhanced mobility benefit, the criteria for awarding the benefits are different and pip is based on your mother’s abilities to preform, manage the PIP descriptors in a safe, repeatable and timely manner for most of her daily living activities. As for the memory test no actual test takes place but during the assessment the HP will talk to your mother about things unrelated to the assessment and will make an assessment of her memory from her answers without you or her realising what has happened. You will now have to wait for the award notification letter and the request an MR with in a month sending examples of what happens each time your mum tries or attempts the descriptor you are contesting. Avoid mentioning about what the assessor said to or never wrote in the report , concentrate on the descriptors and be prepared to take it further as most have to.

April2018mom

Hello @pandora86

DLA and PIP are different. The criteria is different. For PIP, your mom needs to show that she cannot safely, repeatedly, and quickly manage to do those things by herself.if she wishes to be deemed eligible. Regarding the memory test, this is when the HP will ask your mom about things not related to the assessment, it will be used to form the basis of the memory assessment.

Now you must wait for the award letter then politely ask for a mandatory reconsideration giving examples of what happens when your mom tries a activity. Do not worry about the assessment report. Solely focus on the activity descriptors and prepare to go to tribunal, this is common unfortunately. Best of luck! Keep us updated on the outcome of the tribunal too. 

DLA is for children only. Once you reach 16, they will ask you to apply for PIP instead.  

Chloe_Scope

Hi @Pandora and a very warm welcome to the community.

I am sorry to hear this, and I appreciate how frustrated you must feel at the moment. 

Like it has been said above, you'll have to wait for the decision letter to make an appeal. Here is some information about the Mandatory Reconsideration process. Also, it may be worth seeking some expert advice via AdviceLocal.

If you need anything, we are here. You don't need to go through this alone and we will try our best to advise you.

pandora86

Thank you for your replies guys, thats the thing, the assessor had no conversation with my mum! My mum is very poorly and she didnt even manage a hello to the assessor, i was there as her full time carer and answered all questions for my mum while she was present, not one question was asked to my mum. 

I did the points system from the assessors report and she will be awarded the enhanced rate of daily living however loses the enhanced rate of mobility by 2 points and that being that apparently my mum can plan and go on a journey alone. Which of course is not the case!

Chloe_Scope

You will be able to show why your mum can't plan and go on a journey alone when you appeal the decision. The MR unfortunately won't be interested in any lies in the report, only how your mum reaches the criteria to gain enhanced mobility. 

We wish you the best of luck and please do seek face to face advice if you can.  

pandora86

Hi sorry me again! Just reading the report again and noticed that although the assessor wrote in the observations section that my mum cannot plan journeys she then went and ticked the box which says can plan a journey!

where would that leave us? 

Sorry to be a bother this whole thing is just so distressing for everyone and i appreciate the time and effort of all you 

Jurph

You can point things like this out in the MR.

I found it easier to write out all the descriptors, what points I should have got and then reference the evidence. It just simplified everything.

If that's all your disagreeing with, you may just be able to dispute that one descriptor in the MR. The more knowledgeable on here will know.

ruckerdee

I've had the same problem unfortunately I received my assessors report and only been awarded 8points on the daily living component and was giving 0 on the planning and following a route part even though I suffer from severe social anxiety  plus the assessor putility in the writing is cannot go to appointments etc without having a family member drive me yet still 0 points, very contradictive in many parts of her assessment. Will have to do a MR once I get decision letter. Does anyone know if I do a MR could I possible be given less points and lose the 8 total I've been awarded?

pandora86

@ruckerdee its madness isnt it!? They write one thing but then quote another just contradicting themselves!

with my mums; there were several sections where the assessor was i fact contradicting herself saying  daughter gave all the input but then somehow apparently my mum answered all the questions fully, or that my mum appeared unwell but then she was not trembling..? Or that she was neatly dressed...yes of course she was cos i dressed her! If being dressed in a tracksuit bottom and top is classed as neatly, i dont know maybe i should have come to the assessment in a food stained top or something? Lol

chiarieds

Hi @pandora86 Just wondering if your mum looks to have got 10 points for the first part of the mobility section, as you also mention she takes pain medication. If this is for something that affects her mobility and she looks to have got 2 or more points for the 2nd part, 'Moving Around,' then it would seem she may get the enhanced rate, as the points for both of these sections are added together.

pandora86

@chiarieds my mum appears to have scored 18 points for daily living and 10 points for mobility. Hmm we will just have to wait for the decision letter which we are dreading as is everyone else that is waiting.

i just wanted to prepare myself for whats the come beforehand 

chiarieds

@pandora86 So for the Mobility part, she didn't get any points for the 'Moving Around' section (looking at how any physical problem might potentially affect her mobility)? She got 10 points for the 'Going Out' section (about planning a journey, etc); is that correct?

pandora86

@chiarieds she got 10 points for moving around and 0 for planning and following a journey.

however the assessor ticked box saying can plan and follow a journey unaided, but wrote in the comments “cannot plan and follow a simple journey”

April2018mom

Circle all the inaccurate information using a red pen @pandora86. Use this tool to type up a letter of appeal stating why you think she needs the money https://www.advicenow.org.uk/pip-tool. 

Good luck! Keep us posted. 

chiarieds

@pandora86 . That must be enough to drive you to distraction! So have you got any evidence to corroborate her anxiety? If you find you need to go for a Mandatory Reconsideration this should hopefully clarify that the assessor made an error. I won my Mandatory Reconsideration; I wish you the same success!

cristobal

@pandora86 -you say that your Mum gets confused as the result of pain medication and this prevents her planning a journey...

I wonder if it's worth checking whether the DWP would include this (since it's not a medical condition itself) ?

Could you tell them if your mother has tried other pain relief which don't have these side effects??

Good luck anyway... 

pandora86

@cristobal yes confusion is a big part however due to feelings of overwhelming and social anxiety, she cannot plan a journey alone nor attempt to go alone, she gets scared that she will get lost, something will happen to her or that someone will harm her. She has not once been to an appointment alone, she is always either with me or my sister.

The scope of the question actually focuses on mental health ability to plan and take a journey, however as i said previously, the assessor claims my mum wasnt trembling or sweating so therefore no signs of anxiety were present so she marked her down. Not taking into consideration the new anxiety and pain med she was prescribed few days before (pregabalin) which completely numbed her on the day of assessment.

we will just have to wait and see i suppose. Would it help to get a letter from gp to express my mums anxiety attacks? To send along with an MR should we need to? Thanks

poppy123456

Letters from GPs aren't the best evidence to send because a GP will very rarely know how her conditions affect her against the PIP descriptors.

pandora86

@poppy123456 her gp is the specialist under mental health care and is the one prescribing her with the anxiety tabs, if not gp then who else would be able to provide evidence or how would i be able to prove for my mum that she does not ever leave the house alone? 

She has an appointment with mental health care professional on 24th oct, who had a telephone appointment with her about a month ago and said that mum has severe anxiety etc but i dont know whether they would provide a letter? 
Thanks

poppy123456

I have no idea who else you can ask. When the forms were filled out did you put some examples of what happened the last time she attempted that activity?

If she was left alone while being out, what would happen? Would she be able to find her way home?

Since the following and planning a journey changes took place it is very difficult to score points for this activity for anxiety alone because overwhelming psychological distress must be present.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/personal-independence-payment-assessment-guide-for-assessment-providers/pip-assessment-guide-part-2-the-assessment-criteria#mobility-activities

chiarieds

@pandora86 This is just a personal opinion, as the only medical 'evidence' I had was that of my GP.

If your mum had severe anxiety for at least 3 months before her PIP assessment, & it's thought likely it will continue for at least a further 9 months, you may need to back this up, as I mentioned previously.

As each case is individual, your GP may be able to help, depending how well he knows her, & if he is willing to write a supportive letter, which he isn't obliged to do.

Any other evidence, such as from the mental health care professional she is due to see, could also be sent in with a Mandatory Reconsideration.

 'Overwhelming psychological distress' is legally defined as 'distress related to an enduring mental health condition or an intellectual or cognitive impairment.' So you need to prove as best you can that your mum has this 'mental health condition', i.e. severe anxiety.

cristobal

"no signs of anxiety were present so she marked her down. Not taking into consideration the new anxiety and pain med she was prescribed few days before (pregabalin) which completely numbed her on the day of assessment."

@pandora86 - I hope I've read your previous post correctly - apologies if not - but if your mother isn't showing signs of anxiety due to the medication that she's prescribed then isn't that a really positive thing? The medication is obviously working which is good news.

As Poppy has said the problem with getting asking your GP for a letter about your Mum not leaving the house is that he/she will only have her word for that. Possibly they might say that she is always accompanied when she attends appointments?

I struggle to understand 'planning a journey'...but if she goes with you to the doctors wouldn't that score 10points - which is what you were awarded?

Good luck with your MR

pandora86

@cristobal yes it is a really good, but the assessor is not taking into consideration that my mum does suffer from this however she has written down that mum does not suffer with this condition, as she didnt show the signs.

yes my mum has not once attended her appointments alone, always accompanied with someone. For the points system she scored the 10 for the physical abilities however scored 0 for the mental ability of going on a journey unaided. 

crazyjan

I've just had a successful MR and the only extra evidence I sent in was a GP letter about planning and following journeys. I went from 0 points for mobility to 12. Good luck. Please don't give up. (I did actually!)

Jurph

pandora86 said:

@chiarieds she got 10 points for moving around and 0 for planning and following a journey.

however the assessor ticked box saying can plan and follow a journey unaided, but wrote in the comments “cannot plan and follow a simple journey”

I wonder if this is an administration error? 

Have you sent in the MR yet? I wonder if you could call and ask politely if there's been an error, if they say no, then send the MR.

worried33

Hi, first off best of luck in the MR.

Second did you look at more than just the points, the assessor should have put some reasoning below the planning a journey descriptor choice to justify why they gave that descriptor (they only dont have to do this if they agree with the claimants choice of descriptor).

pandora86

@Jurph i hope so!

just a little update on my mum, we was in a&e last night all night as mum fell from panic as she just stepped out to open the door and thought she heard someone in the block and hit back of her head on the glass door outside her flat  the glass is all smashed (which we have to talk to housing association about now) shes ok and at home now, luckily only suffered muscular damage, so you see guys mum is even frightened to step out the door let alone on a journey by herself!

@worried33 thank you, unfortunately this is where im confused as although the assessor had ticked the box “can plan and follow a journey unaided” she then wrote in the box “cannot plan and follow a familiar journey” this is where all my confusion has arised!

worried33

Thats certainly a starting point for MR, the report contradicts itself and the assessor has even noted there is issues in planning and following a journey.

April2018mom

Definitely make a list of things that are falsehoods. In the letter, give a list of examples of situations or scenarios (include the broken door story too!) that indicate your mom is incapable of doing the activity safely. Best wishes as well. Say the report contradicts itself. Use a red pen to circle all inaccurate facts. 

ruckerdee

Well I'll definatley be highlighting all the contradictions made in the assessors report and sending off for MR but as of yet I'm still waiting for the decision letter to arrive in rang them yesterday and was told they can take up to 10 weeks to come

pandora86

@ruckerdee yep! Same here still waiting for decision letter. All this waiting is so stressful. Good luck and hope you get the award you hope to get

poppy123456

ruckerdee said:

Well I'll definatley be highlighting all the contradictions made in the assessors report and sending off for MR but as of yet I'm still waiting for the decision letter to arrive in rang them yesterday and was told they can take up to 10 weeks to come

Hi,

DWP and Tribunal won't be interested in any contradictions/lies told in the report. They will only be interested in where you think you should have scored those points and your reasons why. Adding a couple of real life examples of what happened the last time you attempted that activity for each descriptor that applies to you will also help.

Any complaints about the report should be sent to the health assessment providers. Details how to do this will be on their website.

Good luck.

cristobal

I tend to agree with @ilovecats - just concentrate on why you qualify for PIP, and give some more examples of what areas you have difficulty with.

In any event even if you could show that someone has lied - and it is a lie and not an error, a typo, mishearing something or just someone who disagrees with you - this won't qualify you for PIP.

If you focus on 'lies' then you'll most likely get yourself angry and upset when you are a lot better spending your time on something more positive - I speak from experience as this is what I did!

Joanne_Scope

Hi @pandora86,

Waiting for the decision letter can be a stressful time. 

If your mum does not get the outcome you want then you can lodge a Mandatory Consideration. When you do this, it is a good idea to ask for a full statement of the reasons why the award was given. The initial decision letter does not contain all the information. It is usually just a summary.

@ruckerdee asked if you can actually end up with the award reduced following an MR, and you do need to be aware that there is a slight risk when you do this. The whole award can be looked at again, even if you are only asking them to look at part of it. I would stress that this risk is small though!

Citizens Advice provide useful information on supporting evidence for PIP and sometimes a GP's letter can be helpful. Make sure it comes to you and does not go directly to the DWP so that you can check it. GP's are not always comfortable doing these letters unless they know the patient well and are sure of how their condition actually affects their daily life. The GP will charge for a letter and charges vary.

I agree with @ilovecats, a list of lies is not a good idea. As others in the conversation have written, the best way is to list the descriptors you disagree with, say what points you think your mum should have got. State why and give examples.

I hope that you do not need to do any of this and that your mum gets the enhanced rate of both parts of PIP. 

If you do need any further help please ask. We are always happy to help.

Chloe_Scope

Hi @pandora86, I'm sorry your mum ended up in hospital. I imagine this was quite a shock! 

How is the process going? I too would suggest not focusing and listing the mistakes in the report. They would not be interested in this. You would just show them how your mum meets the criteria.

You only need 2-3 real life example. I hope this helps.

pandora86

Thank you for all your replies, i agree i wasnt about to list out all the mistakes i was just talking about it on here, i mean if i was to go circle every mistake with a red pen i think the whole report would be covered in red ink! The typos and grammers were so awful!

update on mum shes okish in alot of pain due to the fall, i called gp to ask for a letter but they said the hospital discharge note should be enough as she has a ESA assessment coming up on tuesday! 

Still patiently waiting for the dreaded decision letter. Her payment is due on tuesday so i reckon we would hear from them very soon! 

Thanks again for all the guidance

Chloe_Scope

No problem at all @pandora86. I am glad your mum is okay and I hope her pain eases over the weekend.

Joanne_Scope

Keep us updated @pandora86,

I hope everything goes well.

pandora86

Hello all, just a little update, mum still has not received her decision letter however has received housing benefit and council tax award letters stating no change in the amount she gets and this is due to her new pip award.

really confused as theyve already got the award outcome but not us!! Im hopeful that nothing has changed in her award as she was getting high in daily living and mobility before so seeing as hb and ct have not been affected am i right to assume her award has been given as same as previous?

thanks

stratos

Hi not sure if this will help at all but whilst waiting for my husbands first PIP claim decision letter, we received a letter from the council saying we had a reduction due to the enhanced rates awarded by DWP. This is how we found out he had been awarded! I rang the council and they said it had shown on their screen the award was in place. It took a further 10 days for us to receive the decision letter.

pandora86

@stratos thank you for your reply! 

poppy123456

It's not unusual for your local council to receive information before you receive the decision because DWP do share information with them. If she does lose her Enhanced mobility award then this wouldn't affect any housing benefit. It's the daily living award that affects it.

Your mum can ring DWP to ask what the decision is, if it's made they will tell her. Hopefully the decision letter will arrive soon.

pandora86

@poppy123456 thank you. I will contact them for her! 

pandora86

Hello, update: mums received her pip decision, enhanced daily living, however she got standard mobility by just 2 points away from enhanced.

this was expected as i did mention in my previous posts due to having a look at the assessors report. However we do not agree and wish to apply for a MR. 

How do i best go about this? Shes only just recently taken a nasty fall from a dizzy spell just by stepping out the front door alone, surely she is not capable of “planning and taking a journey unaided”.

i will get the hospital discharge letter which states what had happened. She never goes to any of her appointments alone (not sure how id evidence that) Is there any other evidence i can gather? 

thanks

poppy123456

You now have 1 month from the date of the decision to request the MR. This should be put in writing stating where you think she should have scored those points and your reasons why. Adding a couple of real life examples of what happened the last time she attempted that activity for each descriptor that applies to her.

Do be aware that they can only take into consideration her condition at the time the decision was made. Any worsening of condition after this date will not be taken into consideration by DWP and Tribunal.

Even though most MR decision's remain the same there is a chance that she could lose the award she already has by requesting the MR, as well as her award being increased.

Whether she would score any points for following and planning a journey will totally depend on how her conditions affect her. If she's claiming for a physical condition then she won't score any points in following and planning a journey and the falls aren't part of the criteria.

Falling will count if she's claiming because of a cognitive issue, sensory impairment and falling from epilepsy, otherwise falls come under the moving around part.

What's the reason she needs someone with her when she's go out, is it because of the falls? if so then again that doesn't count under following and planning a journey.

pandora86

@poppy123456 thank you for your rapid response. 

The reason she does not go out alone is because she is scared to communicate with anyone as worried she will say the wrong thing (her understanding is not great) as in the past it has happened where she answers wrongly to questions and then feels embarrassed that people are laughing at her or talking about her behind her back (which they aren’t) and this causes panic attacks, she is scared for her life that something or someone is going hurt her (steal her bag/harm her), she is scared of falling ill or falling over with no one to help (shes fallen over previously), and also incase she wets/soils herself. 

Her medications are quite strong and some to the point make her extremely drowsy and confused, she gets lost very easily even in a familiar location and suffers from panic attacks several times a day.

she is currently on anti depressants and anxiety tablets for these conditions alongside other medications for other physical issues she has.

Chloe_Scope

Hi @pandora86, how are you doing? I imagine it's draining on you to go through the process with your mum.

Here is some information about the Mandatory Reconsideration process that you might find helpful.

Chloe_Scope

Hi @pandora86, thank you for updating us. 

The next stage will be a MR which you have a month request this. Many members of the community have been through this so I hope we will be able to advise you.

Here is some information about the Mandatory Reconsideration process. You will have to give 2-3 real life examples about how your mum meets the criteria. This also can be done online.

It's important to not pull them up on the lies, but just use an example of a real life situation.

If you need any further guidance then please do let us know.

pandora86

Hello everyone, just updating on my mums claim. We sent the MR form yesterday along with a few real life examples and a letter from gp stating she has a history of anxiety and depression (as this was what they were stating -that mum did not seem she suffered from anxiety) hopefully it all goes well and she is awarded the enhanced mobility rate as she only missed out by 2 points, please wish her luck!

good luck to anyone who is also in the MR or appeals process. Its all so very stressful! My mum looks as though shes aged 10 years in 2/3 months! 

Joanne_Scope

Hi @pandora86

We wish you and your mum the best of luck!

Let us know how you get on. 

Chloe_Scope

Good luck to you and your mum @pandora86! Please do let us know how you get on.

pandora86

Hello, its me again. Nothing yet from the MR. However today my mum received a care plan and alot of details was in this letter from her initial psychiatric appointment, outlining her condition and findings of the psychiatrist. Can i send this in as extra evidence now or do i have to wait for them to write to us first about the MR decision? Thanks

Chloe_Scope

Hi @pandora86, it might not get there in time, but I guess there is no harm in sending a copy of the report (I'd certainly keep the original) as it could be beneficial.

You also could ring up and tell them more evidence is being sent.

pandora86

@Chloe_Scope thank you! Yes i will call tomorrow. As the report really does outline my mums psychological health issues. I was just wondering whether they would accept further evidence x

poppy123456

It maybe too late to send that evidence now but as @Chloe_Scope advised, there's no harm in trying.

Chloe_Scope

Please let us know how you get on @pandora86.

pandora86

@Chloe_Scope i called them
this morning and they said as a decision still has not been made we have time to send in the extra evidence. Thanks

Chloe_Scope

That's great @pandora86! I really hope the report helps.

Chloe_Scope

Hi @pandora86, how are you getting on?

pandora86

Hi @Chloe_Scope i sent in my mums new evidence and were just still waiting!! Probably wnt hear until end of dec or jan

worried33

Fingers crossed for you @pandora86 .

I have just caught up and seen someone did advise you to not even mention the contradiction, I would have definitely mentioned it.  Its the very reason reports are been audited in the first place to make sure there is nothing like that on them.  If the DWP didn't care about bad quality reports, contradiction's and so forth then they wouldn't even be having the reports audited in the first place.  But of course I did say it was only a starting point and not to be the only driver of the request.  There is instances of members on scope forums, speaking to a DM directly about reports that contradict themselves and successfully getting a new assessment carried out or the report bounced back to be corrected and usually getting a favourable decision as a result.

Chloe_Scope

Hi @pandora86, I'm glad you got the evidence sent. I really hope it is not much longer!

pandora86

Hello guys, mum has received her MD decision and her award is still the same with high daily living and standard mobility. I don’t think the mental health letter has even been added to their system yet as usually i would have got a txt saying thank you etc etc!

anyway where does this leave us now? Can we appeal? How does that process work and do we need a lawyer? What happens to my mums mobility car as we rely on that so much to take her out and about, do they let us keep it for a little longer? Thanks

Joanne_Scope

Hi @pandora86,
Sorry to hear that the MR was unsuccessful, although unfortunately this is not unusual.
You can now take the decision to appeal, but you do need to be aware that they will look at the whole award again.
You do not need a lawyer but it can be useful to get help from somewhere such as CAB or your local AgeUK, depending on how old your mum is.
You have a month to lodge the appeal and then it can take several months, sometimes as long as a year, for the case to be heard.
The process for appealing should be on the decision letter. There is also some information about appealing on the Scope website.
You will need to speak to the garage where you got the Motability car and let them know what is happening. Unfortunately you will not be able to keep the car pending an appeal.

poppy123456

Motability should have already been in contact with your mum to arrange returning the vehicle. There maybe a transitional support package available to her, if she's transferred from DLA but this will depend how long she's been a motability customer for. If she hasn't heard from them then i'd advise her to give them a ring.