Employment and Support Allowance (ESA)
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Esa support group

hello20hello20 Member Posts: 93 Connected
Hello I was in esa claim for 3 years support group my partner was on the claim she moved out an claimed uc We recently decided to get bck together an esa said I need to claim on her uc but I’m already claiming income support esa support group an was recently had Assasemnt an put on support group  can they not put my partner on my claim why do I need go on uc an will they pay my support group element on it will I need to be re assessed 

Replies

  • Adrian_ScopeAdrian_Scope Testing team Posts: 8,001

    Scope community team

    Good morning @hello20 and a warm welcome to the community. 

    Unfortunately, what you have been told is correct. You can't add your partner to your ESA claim and will instead have to make a joint claim for UC. 

    When you are added to her UC claim, you need to be clear you already have a determined award for ESA and are in the support group. They should then put you in the relevant group on Universal Credit which is LCWRA. Moving to Universal Credit shouldn't prompt a reassessment.

    I hope that helps but if you have any questions please don't hesitate to ask. :)
    Community Manager
    Scope
  • Tinkerbell44Tinkerbell44 Member Posts: 27 Connected
    I did have to have an assessment to get my lcwra added onto my Univeral credit claim, even though I was on ESA support group and had just had my yearly assessment done I still had to have another to be given this element in my uc so you may have to have that done to get that element, but above is correct, you can’t take her on your ESA you will need to go onto her universal credit so she will need to report a change in circumstances and tell them that you are back together and you are on ESA etc, and then like I did have a reassessment to get the lcwra award added onto it.
    hope you got it sorted!!!!
    G
  • bi786bi786 Member Posts: 35 Listener
    Tinkerbella44 how long did it take you to get your lwca awarded an did you have to refill in the booklet don’t mind asking what ilness u was awarded support group for 
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    I did have to have an assessment to get my lcwra added onto my Univeral credit claim, even though I was on ESA support group and had just had my yearly assessment done I still had to have another to be given this element in my uc so you may have to have that done to get that element, but above is correct, you can’t take her on your ESA you will need to go onto her universal credit so she will need to report a change in circumstances and tell them that you are back together and you are on ESA etc, and then like I did have a reassessment to get the lcwra award added onto it.
    hope you got it sorted!!!!
    G
    That's not what should have happened. When transferring from ESA to UC DWP should honour your ESA award and place you into the relevant group for UC but for them to do this you need to ask for the MPG1 form to be sent from ESA. If this would have been done then you wouldn't have needed the face to face assessment. However, if you sent in sick notes when you claimed UC then this would have started the LCW process off.

    Advisers from DWP have had some extremely poor training when it comes to UC and very often make this mistake.
    Proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice I have given to members here on the community.
  • bi786bi786 Member Posts: 35 Listener
    Tinkerbella44 how long did it take you to get your lwca awarded 
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    bi786 said:
    Tinkerbella44 how long did it take you to get your lwca awarded an did you have to refill in the booklet don’t mind asking what ilness u was awarded support group for 
    Everyone that is claiming limited capability for work and has been sending in fit notes without a break will need to fill out the work capability assessment form. You should be referred for the assessment 29 days after sending in your first fit note. Once you're referred you'll be sent the WCA forms.
    Proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice I have given to members here on the community.
  • BenefitsTrainingCoBenefitsTrainingCo Member Posts: 2,692 Pioneering
    hello20hello20,

    The advice from Adrian is correct. Unfortunately you do have to claim UC in a situation where a partner who is on UC moves in with you. 

    However, if you're already in the support group & getting ESA on the day your UC starts, then you should get an LCWRA (limited capability for work-related activity) element from day one of your UC claim. This is like the support component in ESA, but a bit higher. You don't get any other disability premiums in UC, so it's well worth making sure UC get this right and include the LCWRA element in your first award.

    If you were claiming UC without having an LCW or LCWRA decision, or you were not on ESA on the day you moved to UC, then you'd have to present sick notes to have a work capability assessment. The problem is that UC will often seek to carry out a new work capability assessment, whether or not you already have an LCW or LCWRA decision. As Poppy suggests, sometimes this could happen because you've submitted sick notes even though technically you didn't need to (because you already had a valid LCW/LCWRA decision). But unfortunately it can happen anyway - the law makes it clear that the DWP have the power to reassess you at any time, even if you already have an LCW or LCWRA decision.

    So to summarise - if you move to UC directly from ESA and you're in the support group, you should get your LCWRA element in your first award, and you won't have any work-related requirements (you shouldn't have to attend interviews at the Jobcentre once your UC award has been set up). If you get PIP daily living or DLA middle or higher rate care and your partner cares for you, then she may not have any work-related requirements either, and could get a carer element added to the award. She'd need to be caring for you for 35 hours a week. She doesn't have to claim carer's allowance (if she does, this will come off the UC award £1 for £1 so overall it's the same amount of money).

    Will
    The Benefits Training Co:
    Paul Bradley
    Michael Chambers
    Will Hadwen
    Sarah Hayle
    Maria Solomon
    David Stickland
  • BenefitsTrainingCoBenefitsTrainingCo Member Posts: 2,692 Pioneering
    Tinkerbell44Tinkerbell44,
    It sounds as if you may be entitled to arrears of the LCWRA element going back to the beginning of your UC claim. This would apply if there was no gap between your ESA and your UC (your UC award star started on a day you were entitled to ESA in the support group).

    If that applies to you, ask UC for a mandatory reconsideration. The regulation which means you should be entitled to the LCWRA element from day 1 of your UC claim is Reg 19 of the UC (transitional provisions) Regs 2014. As Poppy says, UC have had very poor training on this issue and it seems to keep happening!

    Will
    The Benefits Training Co:
    Paul Bradley
    Michael Chambers
    Will Hadwen
    Sarah Hayle
    Maria Solomon
    David Stickland
  • BenefitsTrainingCoBenefitsTrainingCo Member Posts: 2,692 Pioneering
    Tinkerbell44Tinkerbell44,
    It sounds as if you may be entitled to arrears of the LCWRA element going back to the beginning of your UC claim. This would apply if there was no gap between your ESA and your UC (your UC award star started on a day you were entitled to ESA in the support group).

    If that applies to you, ask UC for a mandatory reconsideration. The regulation which means you should be entitled to the LCWRA element from day 1 of your UC claim is Reg 19 of the UC (transitional provisions) Regs 2014. As Poppy says, UC have had very poor training on this issue and it seems to keep happening!

    Will
    The Benefits Training Co:
    Paul Bradley
    Michael Chambers
    Will Hadwen
    Sarah Hayle
    Maria Solomon
    David Stickland
  • Tinkerbell44Tinkerbell44 Member Posts: 27 Connected
    Wow!! Ok thank you I will do that as I went from January until May not getting this element and sending in sick notes!! I did put a message in my uc asking then for this bit they just said something about a 90 day waiting period that everyone apparently has to go through before the lcwra is added on?? 
    Thank you so much for this I’m going to message them now!!
    G
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    Wow!! Ok thank you I will do that as I went from January until May not getting this element and sending in sick notes!! I did put a message in my uc asking then for this bit they just said something about a 90 day waiting period that everyone apparently has to go through before the lcwra is added on?? 
    Thank you so much for this I’m going to message them now!!
    G
    The waiting period doesn't apply when you're already in the Support Group, which is the same as LCWRA.
    Proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice I have given to members here on the community.
  • hello20hello20 Member Posts: 93 Connected
    Thank you everyone for your support unfortunately my partners uc credit has been suspended an will be closed in next 16 days can I add her on my esa claim bck if her accounts suspended an will be closed in next 16 days 
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    hello20 said:
    Thank you everyone for your support unfortunately my partners uc credit has been suspended an will be closed in next 16 days can I add her on my esa claim bck if her accounts suspended an will be closed in next 16 days 
    why has her UC been suspended? She can't be added to your ESA claim, you will both have to claim UC.
    Proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice I have given to members here on the community.
  • Tinkerbell44Tinkerbell44 Member Posts: 27 Connected
    Thank you so much poppy123456 and Adrian!! I have now put a message in my uc account and will let you know how I get on!!
    G x
  • Tinkerbell44Tinkerbell44 Member Posts: 27 Connected
    hello20 said:
    Thank you everyone for your support unfortunately my partners uc credit has been suspended an will be closed in next 16 days can I add her on my esa claim bck if her accounts suspended an will be closed in next 16 days 
    Why has it been suspended?? I know you definitely can’t add her to your ESA 
  • hello20hello20 Member Posts: 93 Connected
    It says there’s change in your circumstances 
  • Tinkerbell44Tinkerbell44 Member Posts: 27 Connected
    Ok so they obviously know that your back together that’s probably what that is right Poppy123456??
    you really should have told them / reported that to them before they found out, so now you will have to start a new uc claim as a couple you can’t add her to your ESA that’s for sure. 
    Hope you get sorted!!
    G x
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    hello20 said:
    It says there’s change in your circumstances 
    As Tinkerbell has pointed out, have you been living together and didn't report the changes?
    Proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice I have given to members here on the community.
  • hello20hello20 Member Posts: 93 Connected
    No we haven’t been living together it’s cause we both have joint Tennancy 
  • hello20hello20 Member Posts: 93 Connected
    She lives with her family atm there few issues in family we r sorting out sorry for late reply  
  • hello20hello20 Member Posts: 93 Connected
    Hello can someone advise me an my partner are bck an I reported change to dwp who told me I need to fill a change of circumstance form which I recieved today I need to add her details send bck I asked she has uc claim shall I go in it they said fill the book in an return  an then we will decide can some one please advise is this information correct an when my partner told uc they said add partner to joint claim an his esa will loose £1 to £1 on her uc credit as partner the couple rates  it’s 498 a month an I recieve £512 a month as single claimant they said my payments will stay the same till I fill in this booklet an return the dwp are so confusing any advise plz
  • hello20hello20 Member Posts: 93 Connected
    I’m on support group is that not gonna be taken in account in the uc as they said she will recieve 498 when I join an they will take £1 for £1 of the uc rate
  • Tinkerbell44Tinkerbell44 Member Posts: 27 Connected
    My friend was in the sane position she added her man but she lost her support money. It’s how they work it out they obviously can’t give you more than anyone else so basically they take both your claims and put it into a joint uc rather than a separate one each.... you will still get the standard living allowance each but I think it may be one payment a bit less than the two if that bakes sence, that’s what happened with my friend I couldn’t be 100%.
    im on living allowance, lcwra, child allowance and my rents paid, - I’m over £1200 a month but it’s mainly due to me having my boy and my health. My friend and her partner are on £644 roughly no kids tho and she doesn’t get her support allowance. There are 2 support groups yours is the lower rate, mines is lcwra high rate.
    Hope you go ok. Good luck.
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    hello20 said:
    I’m on support group is that not gonna be taken in account in the uc as they said she will recieve 498 when I join an they will take £1 for £1 of the uc rate
    Is your ESA Contributions based on Income related? or is it contributions based with an income related top up? If it's this one then you'll remain on Contributions based ESA (£111.65 per week) this will be deducted £1 for £1 from your UC claim, which you need to claim as a couple, as previously advised.

    You'll receive couples standard rate plus the LCWRA for yourself for UC, with the deductions made for what you receive for ESA.
    Proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice I have given to members here on the community.
  • Adrian_ScopeAdrian_Scope Testing team Posts: 8,001

    Scope community team

    Hi @hello20. Is your partner still claiming Universal Credit? I'm not sure why they've sent you this form as it's my understanding you can no longer add her to your ESA claim. Is Universal Credit the only benefit she currently receives?

    On UC you should receive the standard allowance of £498.89 (assuming at least one of you is over 25) and then your ESA will transfer to UC so you'll also receive the LCWRA rate of £336.20. 
    So: 498.89 + 336.20 = £835.09 per month.

    If you are receiving contribution-based ESA you will continue to receive this separately and the amount will be deducted from the monthly UC award. 
    Community Manager
    Scope
  • Tinkerbell44Tinkerbell44 Member Posts: 27 Connected
    edited October 2019
    @Adrian_Scope quick one for you!! Whilst you mentioned standard allowance mine is 317.82 plus 336.20 plus 277.08 plus 564.94 (1496.04) minus 564.94 which they take to pay my council house so I come out with (931.10) then my pip 384.04 per month too and 103.50 Child benefit. I also get £844 pm from my sons great gran as his dad doesn’t give a **** about him (1331.54) (told the uc this and sent in letters of dads earnings a uc worker was also at our court hearing they said it won’t effect anything as it’s classed as Maintenence for my son and his arrears so I would still be entitled too everything

    Total is 2750.18 per month
    all in with all I’m entitled too, uc elements lcwra child payment pip child benefits, his maintenance and his arrears - my son gets extra because his dad doesn’t want to see him caused him a health condition- proven in hospital he was the cause but doesn’t care never in touch no birthdays Christmases etc he goes on holiday to get away, but earns 500 per week cash in hand, paid him once 10.00 so it was taken to court and he was ordered to pay back his years of arrears since he was 14 months old- when we split due to him throwing me down the stairs whilst holding my son- with his normal maintenance payments- which are high because he is a high earner also because of all the stress injuries and trauma he caused us both, but his nan pays me for it as she is the only side of the family that cares and she’s well off - got 44 homes around the world and lives in LA four months of the year, Dubai 2 months then here the other 6....so nothing to her at all- rent paid, council tax paid, is this correct?? Could you just reassure me plz as I just want to make sure everything is as it should be!! Thank you for everything and your time xx G
  • Adrian_ScopeAdrian_Scope Testing team Posts: 8,001

    Scope community team

    Hi @Tinkerbell44

    I'll break these down a bit;

    Council tax: Every council runs their Council Tax Support in their own way so it's impossible for me to say for certain whether your full council tax should be met (or disregarded) but it wouldn't be unheard of.

    Child Maintenance: This is disregarded as income so doesn't affect any of your other benefits. However, some councils do include it when working out Council Tax Support so ensure you've declared it to your local council. I don't know if it being paid by the nan rather than your son's father makes any difference but if you've declared it and they've said it counts as maintenance even though it's her paying it, then that should be fine.

    PIP and Child Benefit: Both of these are disregarded as income so don't affect your Universal Credit. Child benefit ⁠— you've given a 5 week amount, it's £20.70 per week and some month's there'll only be 4 weeks. The PIP amount depends on what rate you're getting.

    Universal Credit: 
    It sounds like you're receiving: 
    £317.82 - Standard single person allowance for over 25s
    £336.20 - LCWRA
    £277.08 - 1st child (born pre-April 2017)
    £564.94 - Rent

    Assuming your rent amount is correct, you're 25 (or over) and only have one child, this looks right to me. :smile:

    I hope that answers some of your questions but if I've missed anything or not explained it clearly, please don't hesitate to ask. :smile:
    Community Manager
    Scope
  • hello20hello20 Member Posts: 93 Connected
    Thank you  poppy I’m on income related support group

    thank you Adrian for the help an support 

    tinker bella44 was your friend on income related esa was she not awarded her support group when she added her partner in the uc account as they should offer this like poppy an Adrian have said by looking at previous posts 
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    hello20 said:
    Thank you  poppy I’m on income related support group


    Then i agree with Adrian, they shouldn't have sent you the ESA form because you can't claim this as a couple. It's UC you need to claim and once you claim this your ESA payments will stop and transfer to UC.
    Proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice I have given to members here on the community.
  • hello20hello20 Member Posts: 93 Connected
    My friend was in the sane position she added her man but she lost her support money. It’s how they work it out they obviously can’t give you more than anyone else so basically they take both your claims and put it into a joint uc rather than a separate one each.... you will still get the standard living allowance each but I think it may be one payment a bit less than the two if that bakes sence, that’s what happened with my friend I couldn’t be 100%.
    im on living allowance, lcwra, child allowance and my rents paid, - I’m over £1200 a month but it’s mainly due to me having my boy and my health. My friend and her partner are on £644 roughly no kids tho and she doesn’t get her support allowance. There are 2 support groups yours is the lower rate, mines is lcwra high rate.
    Hope you go ok. Good luck.
    Hi tinker bells was your friends partner claiming esa or Uc an when they joined claim how come your Friend lost her support componen did she not ask for it to be honoured 
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