Said 'No input from mental health team' on my pip decision and mandatory reconsideration.

MobileGames

Morning. As I have 'no imput from a mental health team',this went against me at my assessment for pip and at mandatory reconsideration stage,so have to appeal. I've had numerous therapy in the past,one to one,CBT,seen psychologists and psychiatrists,done the homework,kept diaries,written down my thoughts,challenged negatives with positives,done to do lists and positive lists and nothing has helped. IAPT have said that if I can't help my self,they can't help me if I'm not willing to engage. When I went there feeling suicidal and really needed help,the help wasn't there,had to wait over a year. Then I attended half the sessions because I was going round in circles and feeling more stressed than when I went in. The trauma is so deeply engrained that I can't get past it. The bullying at school,college and work,friends turning on me,even in adulthood,a girl following me when I was a child,being molested once as a child and I feel so thick having a learning difficulty. Has anyone else had this problem? I feel descriminated against because I don't have counselling. I still have chronic anxiety(diagnosed by a doctor),endogenous depression(diagnosed by a psychiatrist),OCD(diagnosed by a doctor) and a learning difficulty diagnosed at primary school and by an occupational therapist and acid reflux(diagnosed by a doctor),which causes frequent nausea,sore stomach and reflux,had an endoscopy and on anti emetics. I struggle with learning,certain sounds,smells,crowds,changes to routine. I can't be far away from home,go out for the day,on holiday,to the supermarket,stay at a mates house,go on public transport and unfamiliar places stress me out as well as not being able to understand how to get there. I wear pads because I never know if I'm going to wet myself due to anxiety. Despite this,they say I don't have any problems or limitations. How am I suppose to get this across at a Tribunal if I have 'no imput from a mental health team?' They said that everything is a true account,but then score me zero,then 2. ? ? I'm confused and stressed. Sorry for the long rant. 

OverlyAnxious

I had the same issue with no input from mental health team...and have also tried it in the past.  I believe some of us are too far gone to receive help in all honesty, but that's another matter.  I was told I wasn't ready for it...but what if we never are?  I'm certainly no more ready for it now than I was 8 years ago when I first tried it...

The thing with PIP is you have to find the specific 'task' that your problems affect within the descriptors.  Struggling with change and wearing pads because of incontinence aren't actually of any relevance to PIP...though they would be to ESA.   Have you looked at the descriptors to work out which ones you should fit?  I assume you're aiming for 11d (can't follow a journey without assistance)?  If so, who would you take with you?  Parent, carer, friend, etc?  Maybe one of those could write you a statement explaining why you have so much difficulty going out, how they help you and what would happen if you went out without them?

MobileGames

@OverlyAnxious. Apologies in advance for the long post. I've explained that in the pip form and on my assessment,that when I went for ESA assessment and my dad took me,he got lost,(mum couldn't come with us.) I rang and asked for directions and couldn't understand them. I saw the job centre by a chance sighting. The next ESA assessment was at home because,again,mum couldn't come and dad would get in a flap and set me off. The pip assessment was at home. I had to really push for one. That was after putting it on the pip form and letters from the doctor explain that I couldn't get there due to the stress. I also put on the pip form and told the assessor about not being able to use public transport due to not understanding the train and bus time tables,not knowing if it will arrive on time and leave on time,and all the people and noise. That I tried to go to an unfamiliar place on my own and got lost and stressed. Then the assessor asked if I could get there on my scooter and I had to explain to them why I couldn't. I have a scooter on l-plates,told the assessor that I'd done 9 cbt's and that I can't do u turns and go in and out of the cones,that I studied 5 months for the hazard and theory and had extra time on the tests. But that the CBT instructor said that  I couldn't do my practical test until I could do the cones and a u turn. They put on MR that I'd past my test! I put on the pip form and told the assessor that I can't understand complex written and verbal information or make complex budgeting decisions,that they overwhelm me and that complex written and verbal information confuses me and I can't take it in,and at MR,the doctors letter explained that I have a learning difficulty. They said that can I understand complex information and because I have control of my bank account,I can budget! My mum deals with the bills! I told them that. I put on the form,told the assessor and a doctors letter,stating that I have trouble mixing in crowds,can't go to the supermarket,that loud people set me on edge and being shouted at overwhelms me. I told the assessor that if I went into a supermarket,I'd end up running off in tears,as I had tried it with mum and dad and had to go back to the car. I explained how the anxiety takes hold and turns into irritability and that I could end up hitting someone. Despite putting on the form and telling the assesssor,and doctors letter that I can only be in small groups of 3 or 4,not being able to go out for the day or on holiday,stay at a mates or eat round the table at Christmas due to overwhelming anxiety. At MR they said I have slight anxiety and can mix well with people! I put on the form and told the assessor about managing toilet needs and at MR scored 2 on that. The MR was done by the CAB. I went down there myself and the person put very little information. I knew it was a mistake trying to do it on my own. I lost my train of thought and didn't cover properly what I wanted to cover with the descriptors. A person on my behalf contacted another CAB and they have alloted a benefits case worker to do a written representation for me. I included my medical records in with the appeal form,mum helped me. The records clearly state my learning difficulties and being put down a year at primary school and trouble mixing with people in large groups and being far away from home. It says in the psychiatrist and psychologist reports about my anxiety and my OCD,up to 2013. However,in later ones,when assessed twice by IAPT,they said I have no anxiety because I didn't engage with therapy! They wrote me off as not meeting the criteria and not being severe enough!,when my doctor said to me that I have chronic anxiety and OCD. The stress of the pip assessment,Mr and appeal form meant I had a hard time going about putting across what I needed to say. The time pressure,gathering evidence,sending it off. If only I could've explained it better like I just have hear. Thank god I have notes on the descriptors to take to me to the appeal because stuff never comes out how I want it to. Pressure doesn't help,time frames,stress. A month for evidence for the assessment and for Mr and appeal is not enough and for MR I only had 3 weeks due to post being late. 

Chloe_Alumni

Hi @MobileGames, I am so sorry to hear about your experiences, I can understand why you would be so frustrated. Have you ever had any specialist advice about your application? If you are wanting to take it to tribunal I would recommend looking at the local advice around you.

Also, here is some information about the tribunal process. 

Like @OverlyAnxious has said, are you aware of the criteria that you need to meet? Here is some information that breaks down each descriptor.

I hope this helps! If you have any further questions then please do let us know.

OverlyAnxious

MobileGames said:

@OverlyAnxious. Apologies in advance for the long post. I've explained that in the pip form and on my assessment,that when I went for ESA assessment and my dad took me,he got lost,(mum couldn't come with us.) I rang and asked for directions and couldn't understand them. I saw the job centre by a chance sighting. The next ESA assessment was at home because,again,mum couldn't come and dad would get in a flap and set me off. The pip assessment was at home. I had to really push for one. That was after putting it on the pip form and letters from the doctor explain that I couldn't get there due to the stress. I also put on the pip form and told the assessor about not being able to use public transport due to not understanding the train and bus time tables,not knowing if it will arrive on time and leave on time,and all the people and noise. That I tried to go to an unfamiliar place on my own and got lost and stressed. Then the assessor asked if I could get there on my scooter and I had to explain to them why I couldn't. I have a scooter on l-plates,told the assessor that I'd done 9 cbt's and that I can't do u turns and go in and out of the cones,that I studied 5 months for the hazard and theory and had extra time on the tests. But that the CBT instructor said that  I couldn't do my practical test until I could do the cones and a u turn. They put on MR that I'd past my test! I put on the pip form and told the assessor that I can't understand complex written and verbal information or make complex budgeting decisions,that they overwhelm me and that complex written and verbal information confuses me and I can't take it in,and at MR,the doctors letter explained that I have a learning difficulty. They said that can I understand complex information and because I have control of my bank account,I can budget! My mum deals with the bills! I told them that. I put on the form,told the assessor and a doctors letter,stating that I have trouble mixing in crowds,can't go to the supermarket,that loud people set me on edge and being shouted at overwhelms me. I told the assessor that if I went into a supermarket,I'd end up running off in tears,as I had tried it with mum and dad and had to go back to the car. I explained how the anxiety takes hold and turns into irritability and that I could end up hitting someone. Despite putting on the form and telling the assesssor,and doctors letter that I can only be in small groups of 3 or 4,not being able to go out for the day or on holiday,stay at a mates or eat round the table at Christmas due to overwhelming anxiety. At MR they said I have slight anxiety and can mix well with people! I put on the form and told the assessor about managing toilet needs and at MR scored 2 on that. The MR was done by the CAB. I went down there myself and the person put very little information. I knew it was a mistake trying to do it on my own. I lost my train of thought and didn't cover properly what I wanted to cover with the descriptors. A person on my behalf contacted another CAB and they have alloted a benefits case worker to do a written representation for me. I included my medical records in with the appeal form,mum helped me. The records clearly state my learning difficulties and being put down a year at primary school and trouble mixing with people in large groups and being far away from home. It says in the psychiatrist and psychologist reports about my anxiety and my OCD,up to 2013. However,in later ones,when assessed twice by IAPT,they said I have no anxiety because I didn't engage with therapy! They wrote me off as not meeting the criteria and not being severe enough!,when my doctor said to me that I have chronic anxiety and OCD. The stress of the pip assessment,Mr and appeal form meant I had a hard time going about putting across what I needed to say. The time pressure,gathering evidence,sending it off. If only I could've explained it better like I just have hear. Thank god I have notes on the descriptors to take to me to the appeal because stuff never comes out how I want it to. Pressure doesn't help,time frames,stress. A month for evidence for the assessment and for Mr and appeal is not enough and for MR I only had 3 weeks due to post being late. 

I really think it would help if either your Mum or Dad could write a letter confirming some of that.   You have still got some unnecessary stuff in there though, I know it sounds harsh to say but some of the things aren't relevant for PIP...for example it doesn't matter how long you can stay out or whether you can sit around a dinner table for PIP.  (I'm similar btw, absolute max of 2hrs out on a good day, can only deal with one person at a time and can't even live with other people let alone sit around a table.)  You also have to be careful of just making empty statements such as 'loud people set me on edge', that isn't good enough for PIP.  However saying that a supermarket visit caused you such overwhelming anxiety that you ended up in tears and had to return to the car immediately is better proof of OPD.  That is the sort of thing your parents should be confirming in their letter. 

It looks like some of the things there were obvious errors made by the assessor and would be easy for the tribunal to understand was wrong, not having passed your CBT due to learning difficulties for example.

The recent IAPT letter is a bit of an issue but I don't know what you can do about that.  Just hope that you have enough evidence and can explain well enough for them to realise it's not accurate.  The earlier ones from 2013 wont be relevant as they're too old.

It's good that you've got notes on the descriptors this time so hopefully you'll be able to better explain how your conditions affect you at the tribunal.  I think you have explained well enough in that post to be awarded something myself...although as we have similar issues I may be biased!