Mandatory reconsideration heartache

Naughtynan

Hi hope everyone having a good night. I am disappointed as today I had the answer to my mandatory reconsideration request for lcwra. It's been turned down and I'm left in Lcw group as before. The letter say I can log into my account and have updated details and fit notes so that shows I'm well enough to attend work preparations too. They say you can meet with your work coach regularly. Last time I met a work coach was last year when I had to go in the job centre to apply for UC and show my id's. I was so unwell I keep dozing off on the chair because of my medications and the work coach saw how unwell I was. I applied for appeal online straight away but I'm sure even that is going to count ad being capable!!!  Does DWP expect  corpse to apply for lcwra?? Sorry I'm very angry and down at the moment.😟

woodbine

Can you get some help with your appeal? CAB or welfare rights maybe?

Naughtynan

Sorry deleted post as couldn't edit properly. 

poppy123456

HI,

I'm sorry to hear that but with only 18% of MR decisions changing i'm not surprised that you have to take it to Tribunal because the majority of people do.

The good news is that a Tribunal is a lot more understanding but the bad news is that waiting times are huge across most of the country and lots of people are waiting a year for a hearing date.

Naughtynan

Naughtynan said:

woodbine said:

Can you get some help with your appeal? CAB or welfare rights maybe?I

I guess I could but don't know where to start. I actually thought I had a good chance of getting the lcwra especially as it took nearly 8 months for the reply. I might ask Richmond fellowship for help. Feel totally lost and defeated now.

poppy123456

This link will tell you what's local to you for support and face to face advice. If you can get representation then even better and the place to start for this will be welfare rights or a law centre. See link. https://advicelocal.uk/

Naughtynan

poppy123456 said:

HI,

I'm sorry to hear that but with only 18% of MR decisions changing i'm not surprised that you have to take it to Tribunal because the majority of people do.

The good news is that a Tribunal is a lot more understanding but the bad news is that waiting times are huge across most of the country and lots of people are waiting a year for a hearing date.

Oh that's what I dread Poppy the long wait 😟😟 thanks for the reply. 

poppy123456

Naughtynan said:

Naughtynan said:

I guess I could but don't know where to start. I actually thought I had a good chance of getting the lcwra especially as it took nearly 8 months for the reply. I might ask Richmond fellowship for help. Feel totally lost and defeated now.

Whether you qualify for LCWRA will depend how your conditions affect your ability to do any type of work and this is what the Tribunal will look at.

See link for descriptors. https://www.turn2us.org.uk/Your-Situation/Ill-Injured-or-Disabled/Universal-Credit-Capability-for-work-assessment

If none of the descriptors apply for LCWRA then look at substantial risk here. https://wcainfo.net/issues/substantial-risk-lcwra

Naughtynan

Thanks poppy I'll have a proper look at these later on. One thing has really surprised me is that they wrote this "You wear incontinence pads bought over the counter which protects your clothes. You travel on buses and you are able to go supermarket shopping. The overall evidence suggests that significant functional disability is unlikely in the area of Continence."
I said in my wca that I order online and when going out I do very small shopping. I go straight back home yet the way they write reports is like I'm reading about someone else. I'm going to write to my mp tomorrow as I'm actually very concerned about the way these assessments are carried out. 

mikehughescq

Current figure is 15% @poppy123456 and has been for some time. Essentially, random.

Adrian_Scope

I'm really sorry to read your MR wasn't successful @Naughtynan. As others have said, the next stage of appeal is tribunal. If possible, it's a good idea to try and get some face-to-face help with the appeal. Have you taken a look at the link Poppy provided to see what's available in your area?

Naughtynan

Adrian_Scope said:

I'm really sorry to read your MR wasn't successful @Naughtynan. As others have said, the next stage of appeal is tribunal. If possible, it's a good idea to try and get some face-to-face help with the appeal. Have you taken a look at the link Poppy provided to see what's available in your area?

Hi Adrian 
Thanks I had a quick look but at the moment my head is all over the place don't know what to do. Although had a good rant on my journal and this morning had a reply from jobcebrre saying I can apeal as if I don't know. I know I was wrong but I totally lost it and wrote that I find him patronising as I had already written I was going to apeal and I have done the apeal it's gone off online. I just want yo disappear dying seems like a good option. Don't think I'm strong enough for any more rejection and I'm not well. Made an appointment for Thursday to see my GP as I couldn't sleep a wink last night felt like leaving the house and just keep on walking to nowehere. I apologize for sounding negative.

Adrian_Scope

Please don't apologise for sounding negative @Naughtynan. I'm really sorry that you've reached a point where you feel like this. Their comments don't sound like they were very helpful and I understand getting frustrated with them.
Do you think you'll mention how you're feeling to your GP on Thursday? I think it's really important you're honest with someone qualified to help you through this. In the meantime, if you're still struggling with these sorts of thoughts, would you give Samaritans a call on 116 123? If you'd rather talk via text, Shout offer a crisis text service which you can access by texting SHOUT to 85258.
If we can help you at all through the appeal process, please let me know and don't forget you can always contact the community team by email on [email protected]

Naughtynan

Today had the bundle from dwp for my appeal. Reading it has really been very stressful. I don't even want to continue anymore.

poppy123456

I'm sorry to hear this is causing so much stress. Are you able to get some help with the from an agency near you? If you can then i'd advise you to do that and take the bundle with you. This link will help you know what's local to you for that help.

https://advicelocal.uk/

Naughtynan

poppy123456 said:

I'm sorry to hear this is causing so much stress. Are you able to get some help with the from an agency near you? If you can then i'd advise you to do that and take the bundle with you. This link will help you know what's local to you for that help.

https://advicelocal.uk/

Thank you Poppy. I'll look for help in that link. 

janer1967

Keep up the fight dont give in if you think you have a case. I went through this myself and went to tribunal and was awarded. It is stressful and the wait doesn't help and I felt like I was having to fight for any help and support for things that should just be a basic human right. 

Naughtynan

janer1967 said:

Keep up the fight dont give in if you think you have a case. I went through this myself and went to tribunal and was awarded. It is stressful and the wait doesn't help and I felt like I was having to fight for any help and support for things that should just be a basic human right. 

Hi. Thank you for your reply. They said again there's no doubt about yiur medical conditions but you're not Lcwra. They say because I study a distance learning at home it mean I can also deal with work related activitires. They say I can travel in a car do I must not be that disable for a Lcwra group. They also say yes your condition has worsened but we can only discuss yiur case as how it looked to the assessor one year ago. They also say I am not suicidal as I didn't try to commit suicide recently. I'm speechless because reading it it's like they're accusing me for surviving. At least that's how I feel.😞

poppy123456

Are you planning on appearing in person at your Tribunal hearing? This will give you the best chance of a decision in your favour. For those who aren't represented it's about 50%, increasing to more than 70% for those who are represented. Paper based it's just 5-8% chance of success.

They are correct when they say they can't take a worsening condition into consideration. They will only consider what you were like at the time the assessment took place. This applies to the Tribunal too.

Did you put your postcode into the link i provider to see what's local to you?

Naughtynan

Yes I did Poppy. The Mind and citizen advice came up. Not sure what Mind can do but last time I asked for citizen advice for help their advice regarding my sons PIP apeal was as you say to just appear in person. 

Today on my UC journal I asked universal credit for a new medical assessment. They are ignoring the new evidence I sent them regarding my worsening condition. They have new evidence and just dismissed as useless for the apeal so why not assess me again? 

Naughtynan

My doctor wanted to increase my medication couolecof days ago and I refused simply because of the horrible side effects. I can't sleep properly and sleep I get feels like a nightmare. I don't feel normal I'm not healthy.shes referred me to get counselling and my physical problems are being investigated as things take time. Now I know how that guy Erol ? Must have been feeling and I'm glad I have my son otherwise I rather end it all had enough of begging.

poppy123456

I'm so glad you have your son!

You need to be very careful reporting a change of circumstances because you could end up losing your LCW that you already have. Also any new decision made on a new work capability assessment will overrule any decision made by the Tribunal for the appeal you currently have.

Naughtynan

poppy123456 said:

I'm so glad you have your son!

You need to be very careful reporting a change of circumstances because you could end up losing your LCW that you already have. Also any new decision made on a new work capability assessment will overrule any decision made by the Tribunal for the appeal you currently have.

poppy123456 said:

I'm so glad you have your son!

You need to be very careful reporting a change of circumstances because you could end up losing your LCW that you already have. Also any new decision made on a new work capability assessment will overrule any decision made by the Tribunal for the appeal you currently have.

Then I'll take tgem to court.  

Naughtynan

They have said there's no doubt about my lwc. If take that away I'll get a solicitor
  they can't keep changing the goal post to suit their decision. They're making me suicidal.  Bye xx  

Naughtynan

I posted this on their stupid journal 

Naughtynan

poppy123456

I realise you're very stressed by this whole process. They aren't disputing that you have LCW. What they are saying is that you're able to do work related activity (WRA) which is the second part of LCW. What you need to do for the Tribunal is prove that you are unable to do work related activity.

May i ask if you're being forced to attend work focused interviews? do you have an understanding work coach? Some work coaches are very understanding and if you have problems going out they will allow phone calls for the interviews instead of having to attend your local job centre, have you asked your work coach about this?  If you don't have an understanding work coach then you can request a different one and hopefully the next one will be more understanding.

You say that there's only CAB in your area for support with the Tribunal. I know you contacted them previously for your son's PIP but have you contacted then regarding your appeal? If you haven't then i'd advise you to ring them tomorrow and ask them for some help with the bundle and then make an appointment, taking the bundle with you.

For evidence for the appeal, do you have a family member or friend that can write you a supporting letter? Explaining to them how your conditions affect you then mention the difficultly you have going out and what happened the last time you did go out, if that's the issues you have.

I'm also going to tag a very dear friend of mine who has experience with mental health and will be able to give you further advice regarding this, i'm sure.

@thespiceman please can you help here, i'd really appreciate it. Thank you in advance

Adrian_Scope

Hi @Naughtynan. I’m quite concerned by what you’ve posted here.

I understand your frustration regarding the entire process, but there are further avenues of appeal you can take if you don’t get the outcome you’re hoping for at tribunal. Please keep in touch and we can do our best to advise you with these if you need them.

If you’re having thoughts of suicide, it’s really important to seek advice and support from someone qualified and able to help you. Do you get much in the way of support with your mental health? Do you have access to a crisis team? If not, can I ask if you —as we recommended earlier in the thread— have spoken to Samaritans about how you’re feeling? You can give them a call on 116 123.

That said, despite the fantastic service Samaritans provide, I understand that signposting you to resources might not always be beneficial. While as a pan-disability charity our strengths lie more in the daily lives of disabled people, we would be willing to seek some additional support for you by way of a social care referral. If this is something you’d like to pursue, please contact us on [email protected]

Naughtynan

Poppy I attended job centre once last year  (early December 2018) when I first applied for  Universal credit. Then I had one phone appointment early January 2019, that was it. I haven't been to or asked to go in or had no phone appointment. 

I only have one friend who accompanied me to my interview but don't want to bother them. 
Mood permitting I ring CAB tomorrow see if they can help. 
Thank you 

poppy123456

Sounds like you have a very understanding work coach and that's a good thing.

Naughtynan

Hi me again. I went to local CAB and surprisingly someone did see me and took my details and consent to pass on to s8me9ne who can help with the apeal.
 I had a reply on my UC journal today too asking me to provide fit notes. I replied on the journal but then was too agitated so I just called them saying no I rather go to appeal because my condition is related to what I already had one year ago when I had my medical assessment. Even CAB said today they should accept new evidence if it's related to ex8st8ng conditions. Dwp is really bring unfair. Anyway just an update but I feel a bit better and I feel the fight coming on and adrenaline is kicking in. I'm not a quitter.

poppy123456

Glad to hear you are going to have some help from your local CAB. 

Now you have requested the Tribunal then you will need to send any extra evidence to them and not DWP. Evidence will be accepted if it’s related to a condition that you already mentioned but a worsening of condition will not be taken into consideration.

Sending in fit notes again will most likely prompt another referral so you’ve done the right thing by not sending another.

Its a long process and stressful indeed but I’m glad to hear you are continuing with the Tribunal.

Good luck and please let us know the outcome.

Naughtynan

Thank you Poppy. I just made an appointment with my GP and again surprised I was offered one tomorrow! I'll ask if she can provide a fresh letter and evidence for me. It's just everything takes time. I just phoned the appeal service and they said send anything I feel is relevant and they decide its relevant or  not. I'm also seeing my nurse on Wednesday. 
I will update if anything changes it helps me to share 🙂 and I hope others reading realize they're not alone in their fight. I'm trying not to get too high though as I have bipolar. So better are my nurse on Wednesday too xx

Naughtynan

Hi 
Got my hearing date, it's 6th March rather surprised and glad it come so soon. Only problem is I have asked CAB for help and they took all my details said someone who can come with you will get in touch. I hope they still can as it's only 3 weeks away. I'm both relieved and panicking at the same time.

poppy123456

I'd advise you to ring CAB to tell them that you have the date and ask if someone will be going with you to the hearing. Lots of local CAB advice centres no longer represent at a Tribunal because of lack of funding.

Chloe_Scope

Thank you for updating us @Naughtynan! I hope it all goes okay.

Naughtynan

Thank you. I let cab know about the hearing. Someone going to call me, didn't say if they are coming to the hearing. At least it will be over in three weeks, feel a bit better
now I have a date. 

Naughtynan

The hearing might get rescheduled as the representative can't come on the day with me. Now I'm worried it's going to be rescheduled to much later date.

poppy123456

I'm sorry to hear this, this can often happen when you have a rep, if they are unable to attend on the day. Hopefully HMCTS will agree to reschedule the hearing, if not then do you have someone else that can at least go with you?

Chloe_Scope

This must be really frustrating @Naughtynan! Please do let us know how things go.

Naughtynan

No poppy don't have anyone else. 😟

Naughtynan

Chloe_Scope said:

This must be really frustrating @Naughtynan! Please do let us know how things go.

Hi I will 

poppy123456

I'm sorry to hear that. Have you heard anything from HMCTS? Did you actually contact them to ask them to reschedule the hearing, with your reasons why?

Naughtynan

poppy123456 said:

I'm sorry to hear that. Have you heard anything from HMCTS? Did you actually contact them to ask them to reschedule the hearing, with your reasons why?

I received a copy of an email from the representative from citizen advice sent to tribunal today. He's asked the tribunal for rescheduling of the hearing, not me. I guess I just have to wait, again.😟

traceysteven

If you choose a paper hearing at a tribunal  and the judge feels it's in your best interest for a face to face after reading through your case and evidence the courts will invite you in for a face to face hearing before making their decision. Plus you always have a chance to change your mind for a face to face hearing also as long as it's in the time limit. So please dont be put off by paper hearings. They are quicker and you do get the chance to a face to face if the judge feels it's in your best interest. 

poppy123456

traceysteven said:

If you choose a paper hearing at a tribunal  and the judge feels it's in your best interest for a face to face after reading through your case and evidence the courts will invite you in for a face to face hearing before making their decision. Plus you always have a chance to change your mind for a face to face hearing also as long as it's in the time limit. So please dont be put off by paper hearings. They are quicker and you do get the chance to a face to face if the judge feels it's in your best interest. 

Hi,

Paper hearings have between a 5-8% chance of success, against 75% for those that appear in person. My advice is people should always appear in person.

traceysteven

I agree which is why if you do opt for a paper hearing and the judge feels invites you for a face to face hearing then it's certainly in your best interest to attend. I also understand this can be very daunting and frightening for some people and baby steps needed to be an option first which you can put in for a paper hearing and then change your mind for attending the hearing etc 

Naughtynan

traceysteven sa7id:

I agree which is why if you do opt for a paper hearing and the judge feels invites you for a face to face hearing then it's certainly in your best interest to attend. I also understand this can be very daunting and frightening for some people and baby steps needed to be an option first which you can put in for a paper hearing and then change your mind for attending the hearing etc 

Thanks for the reply Traceysteven, I have asked for an oral hearing, I want to attend but my representative can't make the date so he's asked the tribunal to change the day if the hearing. 

Naughtynan

Hi 
Just received a letter from tribunal and it says a judge has postponed the hearing of yiur appeal. I will write to you again with a new date for the tribunal hearing. Another wait and s8mehiw I regret going to cab and askum the help. I rather it was s over and done with now don't know when an other date is given  and another 3/4 weeks for it to come. The wait is the worse I wish I hadn't appealed now I d9bt want their money I don't want anything.

poppy123456

Please don't give up now, hopefully the next day won't be too long and they will contact you once another date becomes available. You're almost there now, i realise just how stressful the whole process is.

Naughtynan

poppy123456 said:

Please don't give up now, hopefully the next day won't be too long and they will contact you once another date becomes available. You're almost there now, i realise just how stressful the whole process is.

Thank you for your support Poppy. I know I got to be stronger but the more I try I end up bursting into uncontrollable crying. It's has become the centre focus of my life, one benefit claim one appeal after the other and feelings of not having any control in my life, I feel hopeless. I'm tired. 
Sorry to ramble on . 

poppy123456

You're very welcome. Please don't think you're rambling on, it's what we are here for, to support those that need it. I wish i could do more to help but sadly i can't. I really do hope you're not waiting too much longer for the new date. Please stay strong, you can do this! Sending gentle hugs your way!

Naughtynan

poppy123456 said:

You're very welcome. Please don't think you're rambling on, it's what we are here for, to support those that need it. I wish i could do more to help but sadly i can't. I really do hope you're not waiting too much longer for the new date. Please stay strong, you can do this! Sending gentle hugs your way!

You've already helped a lot Poppy thank you 🙂 I'll go now wash my face and try to eat something. Life goes on, I try to do small positive things today. 
I'll post again when I get a new date. 
*hugs received gladly🙂🤗

traceysteven

I totally can relate to how your feeling. As I am waiting also as appealed to the courts. I was so cross with the assessors lies written on report and the medical eveidence not even taken into account. That I have appealed to the courts not just for me but to try and stop this happening to others. The damage the lies course emotionally is a heartless move and soul destroying. It has to stop, the assessors need to stop judging , lying, and actually hear what people are saying and taking into account the medical eveidence instead of dismissing it. Please remember if you are putting appeals to the court you are taking them to court so are standing up for yourselves. It's hard I know and believe me I've been put through alot but what keeps me going is the truth will always win over lies. 

poppy123456

The only issue is that you can't prove what did or didn't happen during the assessment and HMCTS won't be interested in any of those lies/contradictions. Trying to prove what was written is a lie will only weaken a case.

What will see a win is proving which group you should be in and your reasons why.

Naughtynan

Hi
Hope you're all good and healthy 🙂
Apparently there was a hearing in my absence regarding my universal credit appeal due to coronovirus situation on the 19th May that I didn't know about. The letter says it was adjourned (so why did you have it) and a telephone hearing is to be arranged.
Now I had a representative from citizen advice last time wanted to represent me do he asked for the previous hearing to be postponed. I phone him now and the place he works from is closed as said by the automated voice. I don't know what else to do so just called tribunal centre and they confirmed my phone number for the telephone hearing day. I'm worried obviously, worried that am I going to be represented and if not will I be able to give myself a good chance as I get more nervous on the phone.
Anyone had a telephone hearing? Are they fair? 

Naughtynan

I won my appeal yesterday, I felt very emotional and was really anxious. Hope everyone is well, 🙂

janer1967

Congratulations and thanks for sharing with us 

Naughtynan

janer1967 said:

Congratulations and thanks for sharing with us 

Thank you, I just wanted people to read there's still hope, mine took 15 months from mandatory to get a decision. 🙏

Chloe_Scope

So glad to hear this @Naughtynan! So happy for you! Thank you for letting us know.

poppy123456

Great news thanks for letting us know.

Adrian_Scope

Really happy to read your news @Naughtynan, congratulations on the successful appeal.

Naughtynan

Thank you, I just seen the lcwra element has been added to my next payment, I'm so relieved. 

chiarieds

Delighted to just read your news @Naughtynan - Congratulations, & yes it does give people hope, thank you.

Naughtynan

chiarieds said:

Delighted to just read your news @Naughtynan - Congratulations, & yes it does give people hope, thank you.

Thanks, I received the decision letter today too but I'm glad they told me the decision on the day. 🙂
To anyone's that waiting don't give up, fight. 🙏

Naughtynan

Hi hope everyone is well. I got a letter attached on my journal this morning regarding my back payment. I'm of course very relieved but I'm concerned as I think they have overpaid me as much as double to what I expected to receive in back payments. I think perhaps its due to the severe disability premiums that I received while on LCW. What shall I do? I really don't want to be overpaid. Should I call them or write on my journal and how should I word it, please help. 

janer1967

Hi I would call them then you will get a full explanation and it is always easier to get everything across by speaking rather than message . Also may be delay in response in your journal however why not do both if you put payment query as category I think it goes direct to your case manager 

poppy123456

Naughtynan said:

 think perhaps its due to the severe disability premiums that I received while on LCW. What shall I do? I really don't want to be overpaid. Should I call them or write on my journal and how should I word it, please help. 

Were you claiming ESA previously to claiming UC? the severe disability premiums isn't paid when claiming UC. There is a transitional support protection payment in place for those that were made to claim UC and were previously claiming the SDP in with another benefit.

Naughtynan

janer1967 said:

Hi I would call them then you will get a full explanation and it is always easier to get everything across by speaking rather than message . Also may be delay in response in your journal however why not do both if you put payment query as category I think it goes direct to your case manager 

Thank you Janer1967 they said in top of their message if asked to call don't call just leave message on journal. Maybe, because of staffing issue. 

Naughtynan

poppy123456 said:

Naughtynan said:

 think perhaps its due to the severe disability premiums that I received while on LCW. What shall I do? I really don't want to be overpaid. Should I call them or write on my journal and how should I word it, please help. 

Were you claiming ESA previously to claiming UC? the severe disability premiums isn't paid when claiming UC. There is a transitional support protection payment in place for those that were made to claim UC and were previously claiming the SDP in with another benefit.

Thanks poppy. I was on income support and then moved, to universal credit. They calculated the SDP without me applying for it nd I got 285 pounds a month extra as I was on LCW. I think it wasn't taken into consideration and I've been overpaid.

poppy123456

Ah yes, that sounds like it could be that. Although without knowing how many months backpay you were owed then it's difficult to give any advice. I can't remember how long you waited.

Naughtynan

16 months Poppy. I think I better let them know. I thought they take that into consideration. 

poppy123456

I make that approx £5,400. Did you include the 3 month waiting period in with that amount?

Taking into account the difference between the £285 protection for the SDP and the lower amount of £120, which is what should be paid, if you claim the LCWRA then i work it out as £2,640 backdated money (approximately) of course this is only providing you calculated the "waiting period" for the LCWRA.

Naughtynan

poppy123456 said:

I make that approx £5,400. Did you include the 3 month waiting period in with that amount?

Taking into account the difference between the £285 protection for the SDP and the lower amount of £120, which is what should be paid, if you claim the LCWRA then i work it out as £2,640 backdated money (approximately) of course this is only providing you calculated the "waiting period" for the LCWRA.

I agree with your calculation too Poppy. Thank you for doing this🙂. The extra lcwra payments is now showing from April 2019 and my fit notes started months before that. I did call them and was told to leave a note on my journal which now I've done just briefly explaining I think it's over payment. I don't want the wrong money. 

Naughtynan

Oh just seen its already been credited into my account, that was quick.
My bank balance is, now over £6000 as, my rent hasn't, been taken yet. Should, I be worried it will affect my benefits? 

Naughtynan

Oh just seen its already been credited into my account, that was quick.
My bank balance is, now over £6000 as, my rent hasn't, been taken yet. Should, I be worried it will affect my benefits? 

poppy123456

Backdated money is disregarded for 1 year for all means tested benefits.

Naughtynan

That's good to hear, thanks again Poppy, although I think some has to be refunded back to dwp.