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Tribunal Help

DuffersMum
DuffersMum Member Posts: 196 Pioneering
edited December 2019 in PIP, DLA, and AA
I’ve lodged my appeal online and have now received a letter saying it will be dealt with at a tribunal centre.

i have not sent anything in yet apart from what I filled in online...should I now be sending in evidence and copy of MR ETC? Or do I wait until I have received the written response from DWP? 

Thanks

Comments

  • LP004
    LP004 Member Posts: 25 Connected
    Yes, send in as much evidence as you can as soon as you can
  • nanook
    nanook Member Posts: 6 Listener
    Did you send in hospital diagnosis letters,  a letter from your gp saying how your illness or disability affects you day to day, and ask any other people who have input if they can do the same? Are you able to get someone to go with you or an advocate to help on the day?
    I filled in my form using the benefits and work website guides which helped a lot
  • DuffersMum
    DuffersMum Member Posts: 196 Pioneering
    Thank you, I’ll get things sorted and posted off.  
  • poppy123456
    poppy123456 Member Posts: 28,409 Disability Gamechanger
    Letters from a GP aren't the best evidence to send because they will very rarely know how your conditions affect you against the PIP descriptors. They will only know the basics such as diagnosis and medication and PIP isn't about a diagnosis.
  • Liz2012
    Liz2012 Member Posts: 12 Connected
    @nanook what is the web site was it you used, only as my head is going round it what to do should I go for appeal, if not I will loose my way of getting out, might still loose everything or don’t appeal keep what I’ve got but don’t get out to hospital appointments. 
    Thanks Liz
  • poppy123456
    poppy123456 Member Posts: 28,409 Disability Gamechanger
    Liz2012 said:
    @nanook what is the web site was it you used, only as my head is going round it what to do should I go for appeal, if not I will loose my way of getting out, might still loose everything or don’t appeal keep what I’ve got but don’t get out to hospital appointments. 
    Thanks Liz

    Benefits and work costs £19.95 to join for a year, unfortunately, the guides available on there are not free.

  • mikehughescq
    mikehughescq Posts: 8,845 Connected
    nanook said:
    Did you send in hospital diagnosis letters,  a letter from your gp saying how your illness or disability affects you day to day, and ask any other people who have input if they can do the same? Are you able to get someone to go with you or an advocate to help on the day?
    I filled in my form using the benefits and work website guides which helped a lot
    No point in sending in letters confirming a diagnosis. Diagnosis is almost never in dispute. 
  • nanook
    nanook Member Posts: 6 Listener
    My letters from my consultants list my various diagnosis and how my illnesses affect me, they are no longer allowed by the NHS to write supporting letters to help patients with benefits, so mine put my issues into the diagnosis letters to my gp and send me a copy. The letters are useful evidence, as are letters from physios, social workers, mental health services etc.
    The benefits and work website does charge you to join, they have a newsletter you can sign up for than usually gives you a voucher for money off membership, their guides give you help with descriptors and how to navigate the whole farcical system.
    For example if you need to use a "navigational aid" aka satnav while out, to avoid getting lost for example due to poor memory, mental distress, anxiety etc you automatically score enough points for the higher rate and a blue badge?


  • nanook
    nanook Member Posts: 6 Listener
    Liz2012 said:
    @nanook what is the web site was it you used, only as my head is going round it what to do should I go for appeal, if not I will loose my way of getting out, might still loose everything or don’t appeal keep what I’ve got but don’t get out to hospital appointments. 
    Thanks Liz

    Benefits and work costs £19.95 to join for a year, unfortunately, the guides available on there are not free.

    The guides may not be free, I've found people more than happy to share and explain how to use them tho
  • mikehughescq
    mikehughescq Posts: 8,845 Connected
    The NHS absolutely does not prohibit supporting letters. This is a wilful misinterpretation on the part of a number of parties but what it comes down to is that they can write what they want to whom they want. Have a read of https://www.rightsnet.org.uk/forums/viewthread/13444. It knocks that one on the head immediately. If you have a consultant who says they cannot provide medical evidence it’s either because they’re out of date on the guidance or because they don’t want to. 

    A letter from a GP, physio, social worker or MH services are of little use unless directed explicitly towards points scoring activities. A consultant can for example offer a diagnosis. Absolutely no point in that if it’s not in dispute. I can’t remember the last time I saw a case where diagnosis was in dispute. They can describe your treatment or medications but that tells you little about whether someone can do something reliably. They could list symptoms but most likely they’ll either be one of either

    - the symptoms they think a person with that condition is likely to have and thus not medical evidence about you, or,
    - a list of the symptoms you describe and thus a repetition of what you say but not actual medical evidence. Your next door neighbour could write a letter detailing what you tell them and it would arguably be as valid I.e. not much.

    Thus the oft repeated refrain on this site that “they ignored my consultant”. Nope, they definitely read it but as it wasn’t addressed to the descriptors then it’s not really helpful. As I recently posted on another thread, unless you have eaten with; bathed with; toileted with your consultant etc. then what direct medical evidence can they provide?

    I’d also take social worker out of that list completely unless they’re an LD or MH social worker. Evidence where a person has a condition into which they may have limited insight will often be highly helpful but rarely elsewhere. That’s why 52% of those claims which succeed do so with no medical evidence whatsoever. 

    As regards a sat nav I think we’re conflating separate issues. A satnav has definitively been held to not be an aid as can be confirmed by https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5a38f2ffed915d5a62fdd1dc/CPIP_3759_2016-00.pdf and you certainly don’t automatically score 12 points. 
  • poppy123456
    poppy123456 Member Posts: 28,409 Disability Gamechanger
    @mikehughescq absolutely fantastic information, thank you for that :) Merry Christmas to you and your family :) 
  • Cressida
    Cressida Member Posts: 976 Connected
    @mikehughescq thank you that was a very interesting read. The Disability Gamechangers (and many others) on this site are so knowledgeable and helpful. Thank you and Happy Christmas everyone. 

  • cristobal
    cristobal Member Posts: 987 Disability Gamechanger
    @mikehughescq - GPs writing 'supporting' letters isn't part of their NHS contract so they can choose whether they do it, or not, on a private basis and charge a fee.

    I fully agree with your comment about consultants "being ignored" which seems to be a common misunderstanding.

    Doctors write reports about medical stuff because that's what they're trained to do - diagnose and treat illnesses, not help with benefits applications.

    I read through about about 200 pages of medical reports etc before concluding that only 4 were relevant to my PIP application - and these were all written by an Occupational Health consultant who I saw before being medically retired from my job.He made no mention of diagnosis, or symptoms but just commented on what I could do and what I couldn't.
    ...



  • mikehughescq
    mikehughescq Posts: 8,845 Connected
    Spot on @cristobal and you did exactly what people should do with their evidence. Ask yourself what gap it fills in your case. Less is usually more when it comes to evidence. Focused evidence is everything. 


    You can of course now get your medical records for free albeit this has been completely misinterpreted by HMCTS who think only the claimant can do this not them. That aside the usefulness of medical records is also not as described. They are again concerned with attendance; medication and treatment. They’re not aimed at the descriptors at all. Why are tribunals so keen to see them then? 

    1 - a judge has a panel who are not going to give a fair hearing to a specific condition and thus needs a pretext for adjournment.

    2 - they will provide evidence which goes against a claimant. Lost count of the number of appeals where the claimant asserts one thing but their GP records show the exact opposite. 

    @nanook I’ve very mixed feelings about sharing documents which can only be accessed by subscribing to a web site. On the one hand I don’t see why anything like this should be paid for by people on a fixed income. It’s effectively a form of indirect taxation caused by the benefits system and there’s lots of equally good and often better stuff available for free. The irony of the benefits system - supposedly there to support those unable to work and drive those can work into work - in creating a black economy of welfare rights resources is brilliant and depressing.

    On the other hand people charge for things where that’s the only way they can bring it to market. Something has to pay for their web site; the time spent on producing those emails and those resources. Every time they’re given away for free then you’re undermine the ability of the provider to continue providing.

    @Cressida I actually find it quite offensive to be labelled a disability game changer by an organisation which moderates my posts; edits them without telling people what’s been removed; refuses to engage with the concept of accountable moderation and allows incorrect information posted by claimants to persist in breach of their own T&Cs. 
  • Adrian_Scope
    Adrian_Scope Posts: 8,553

    Scope community team

    Hi @mikehughescq. Thanks for all your comments here.
    To echo @Cressida and @poppy123456, they've made for some interesting reading.
    I'm sorry you're not keen on the title Disability Game Changer ⁠— these titles are given automatically, based on the number of posts a member has made, rather than it being something we assign to particular members. With regards to editing posts ⁠— we now leave a note within a post that's been edited for its content to make this clear, although it has been quite a while since we edited any of your posts.
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