Should I appeal my PIP MR or are they usually a waste of time?

KnobblyKnees

Tbh I've had enough hassle re; the DWP lately but I'm pretty incensed to have been practically labelled a malingerer and I do need help with transport. There's no public transport here and it's getting too painful to drive a manual vehicle. I'm like under house arrest.

Has anyone appealed successfully?

If we're marked down because we can drive, they why are there so many disabled parking bays all over the place?

Is the SSC1 form the first step?

Thanks

poppy123456

Hi,

Its your decision whether you request the appeal or not and only you can decide that. Appearing in person will give you the best. Chance of a decision in your favour and without representation you have about 50% chance of success. With representation it rises to about 75%.

As for driving going against people then yes it has been known but I drive and claim Enhanced mobility and it’s never gone against me.

You need to concentrate on why you think you should have scored those points and not what the lies/contradictions that may have been told in the report.

BenefitsTrainingCo

Hi there, I agree with Poppy. Concentrate on the points you should have scored in each activity, and say why (with examples if possible).

I'd encourage you to appeal as a recent decision says the activity of planning & following a journey shouldn't just focus on driving. If you are only able to drive with pain, it's possible that your driving should be disregarded anyway, as pain which is interfering with your life probably means you are not able to do the activity 'reliably' - because you can only do it by causing pain.


The decision says the law should look at the overall activity of planning and following a journey. Even if you could drive without pain, the drive can only ever be part of the journey -getting to and from the car is also to be taken into account. From what you're saying, the pain is such that it is stopping you from driving. The whole activity would need to be looked at though (and unfortunately the provision of public transport wouldn't be part of the test).

Here's the decision in case it is helpful:

https://www.gov.uk/administrative-appeals-tribunal-decisions/sb-v-secretary-of-state-for-work-and-pensions-pip-2019-ukut-274-aac

Will

DuffersMum

KnobblyKnees said:

Tbh I've had enough hassle re; the DWP lately but I'm pretty incensed to have been practically labelled a malingerer and I do need help with transport. There's no public transport here and it's getting too painful to drive a manual vehicle. I'm like under house arrest.

Has anyone appealed successfully?

If we're marked down because we can drive, they why are there so many disabled parking bays all over the place?

Is the SSC1 form the first step?

Thanks

I was marked down because I drive as well...seems we are a nice easy target these days..although mine was under moving around section...I’ve read of many others who have also fallen foul of this...makes a mockery of the Motibility scheme IMO but getting them to change their mind is proving neigh on impossible 

DuffersMum

I can drive because it’s not weight bearing..whereas I can’t walk very far because of the horrific pain my osteoarthritis causes from my hips and back and also pain in one knee after a not so successful knee replacement..however and I quote “to get into and out of a car requires a certain level of dexterity” therefore you can walk further than 20m but less than 50m aided...

sorry but that’s a load of tripe....however getting them to see that has been impossible, I only hope the appeal panel have a little more common sense 

KnobblyKnees

Thanks for all the advice and replies. The left knee is so painful it prevents me from driving and both knees buckle or lock when walking most of the time. When I have to go to the docs or physio I have to rest it for a few days until the pain eases. I'll give an appeal a go, they can only stop my ESA again I suppose. This is my reward for working flat out for over 20 years in the building trade and paying the elevated NI stamp eh? I know I've been offered knee replacements but there's no guarantee I'll be pain free and it sounds like it's a production line affair. Good luck with your appeal DuffersMum.

poppy123456

Being refused PIP has nothing to do with an ESA claim. Unfortunately working and paying your NI contributions won't help a PIP claim either because that's not what it's about.

DuffersMum

I get where KnobblyKnees is coming from with his comment about working and paying into the system all your working life only for when you need some help they chuck it back in your face and say “tough” we say you can do this, that and the other, when they know nothing about you, ignore your medical records and what you tell them, and write whatever they feel like on the day...I feel exactly the same..I’m fact when I had to give up work due to my mobility problems the state informed me my husband would have to keep me after 6 months because that’s all the JCA I was entitled to...

PIP is supposed to be about helping people with disabilities, however it now seems to be more to help people with mental health issues than those with mobility issues..

Must remember when it’s time to reapply to not tell them I drive and see how I get on then eh?

Good luck Knobbly Knees ?

DuffersMum

Oh I agree, no guarantee you will be pain free after knee replacement, I’m not, but trying to explain that to some thick nurse who knows sod all about arthritis is a waste of time, because she’s paid on how many people she gets through in a day so can’t get you out of there fast enough, just enough time to copy and paste a load of fabricated nonsense from another person’s report and on to the next one...how they sleep at night I’ve no idea

poppy123456

DuffersMum said:

PIP is supposed to be about helping people with disabilities, however it now seems to be more to help people with mental health issues than those with mobility issues..

Must remember when it’s time to reapply to not tell them I drive and see how I get on then eh?

Good luck Knobbly Knees ?

Sorry but i completely disagree with that. I claim standard daily living and Enhanced mobility PIP, i claim for physical disabilities only and yes i drive an automatic car.

I also know of a lot of people that claim PIP for physical disabilities.

DuffersMum

Automatic car...there’s the difference....mine is manual so I can obviously run up and down stairs and probably a marathon or two according to the useless thing that did my assessment....

ive learnt from the experience though and will be far better prepared next time....they won’t be catching me out with trick questions again 

DuffersMum

Cressida said:

@DuffersMum just to give a little balance I suffer from rheumatoid and osteoarthritis and received a fair award on my first attempt. My HCP was a nurse. 

I’m very pleased it was ok for you...The one I had was useless and I have put in an official complaint to ATOS, who aren’t called ATOS anymore but are actually still ATOS with the same underhand tactics they’ve always used. She was truly horrible, looking down her stuck up little nose at me like I was something on the bottom of her shoe....karma will catch up with her eventually...

Puddington_Piee

If it was me, I'd definitely appeal. The amount of people being turned down when they should really be getting PIP is appalling, an  over half of the people turned down for it end up winning their appeal's. So id say go for it if you have a good case.

DuffersMum

2. My HCP chucked my medical records back across the table at me when I handed them to her “I don’t want or need those” so she definitely ignored medical evidence and had she looked at them she might not have made so many glaring errors about which of my joints are affected.

3.  What I was trying to say, obviously badly, was that I am sure Moving Around used to be a section just on its own but they have now thrown in the managing and planning journeys which are more aimed at mental health problems rather than mobility...did this happen at the same time as they changed the distance from 50m to 20m? (Sure it was but not 100% certain) it was then that it became much harder to gain Enhanced Mobility on just the Moving Around descriptor alone, IMO penalising those with mobility problems alone, whereas somebody with mental health problems can gain extra points in the planning and managing journeys descriptor which makes getting enhanced mobility easier..hope that now makes sense 

5.  That was not for moving around descriptor though but for the planning and managing journeys.  I can plan and follow journeys with no problem as I am not affected by any mental health issues.  I can’t walk anywhere without being in pain but can drive without the same level of pain because driving is not weight bearing, however they seem to choose to ignore this fact and it’s extremely frustrating

6.  They do have allotted times, I agree, it’s just a shame some HCP are more interested in shoving you out the door before you can clearly explain yourself...I was in and out in less than 30 minutes, I was advised my assessment would be at least an hour ??‍♀️

poppy123456

There's 2 parts to mobility... following and planning a journey and moving around. They are completely different activities and have always been that way since PIP was introduced in April 2013.

DuffersMum

poppy123456 said:

There's 2 parts to mobility... following and planning a journey and moving around. They are completely different activities and have always been that way since PIP was introduced in April 2013.

But they have changed the distance haven’t they? Sure it was 50m before and now it’s 20m? Sure it will only be a matter of time before that up to 20m is downgraded to 10 points and you’ll only get 12 points if you can’t walk at all....

roll on being 65 (or is it 66 now the retirement age has changed) when one can claim attendance allowance instead of being put through the humiliation of a PIP assessment...

DuffersMum

ilovecats said:

It’s actually a lot harder to obtain points for Activity 11 than it is 12

But gaining any points for 11 makes it more likely to be able to get to the necessary 12 points when added to the points in 12..very difficult getting 12 points in section 12 alone, or it seems that way from posts I have read on various forums.

poppy123456

DuffersMum said:

poppy123456 said:

There's 2 parts to mobility... following and planning a journey and moving around. They are completely different activities and have always been that way since PIP was introduced in April 2013.

But they have changed the distance haven’t they? Sure it was 50m before and now it’s 20m? Sure it will only be a matter of time before that up to 20m is downgraded to 10 points and you’ll only get 12 points if you can’t walk at all....

The distance changed just after PIP was first introduced, which was almost 7 years ago. I also disagree that it's difficult to score 12 points in the moving around part, lots of people successfully claim Enhanced mobility that scored points in just the moving around part and i know of quite a few people that have, including myself. I didn't score any points in following and planning a journey, as i previously mentioned.

I've said this many many times but i'll say it again, having some understanding of the PIP descriptors and what they mean will always help.

androgynous

DuffersMum said:

roll on being 65 (or is it 66 now the retirement age has changed) when one can claim attendance allowance instead of being put through the humiliation of a PIP assessment...

On the down side, there's no mobility component of attendance allowance.

poppy123456

State pension age and PIP new rules here. https://www.disabilityrightsuk.org/news/2019/may/light-touch-pip-reviews-be-rolled-out-disabled-people-pension-age

KnobblyKnees

Seems things are getting a bit heated. Okay so my NI doesn't make any difference to PIP, it just gets me that I lived on a road where two blokes who had never done a stroke of ( official ) work in their lives because of a 'bad backs' yet still managed to father 9 kids between them and lay York stone driveways, fit a new engine in a car, work on the side as painters and decorators, shimmy up and down ladders and 'go t' club' every night for a skinful. Because of professional claimants like them we're all tarred with the same brush. If I'd followed their example I would still have my health, there's no justice.

And there is a definite connection between my PIP assessment and the DWP stopping my ESA. I filled in the EAS form in March and they stopped my payments on the same day the PIP sent the refusal in November. 8 months to decide I was a malingerer, I think not! The PIP assessor pounced on the fact when I blabbed I was on ESA, my housemate was female and even after I showed her evidence of the state of my knees and neck stated I didn't appear to be suffering from any pain and had 'normal movement'. Don't get me started on those ATOS ( Health Assessment Advisory Service ) [Removed by moderator]. On the asthma test he blatantly moved the marker and recorded a higher response and was so dishonest he claimed I did not have Baker's cysts behind the knees etc; etc; It's difficult to censor my language on this matter so I'd better leave it at that but you get the gist.

One thing I've noticed on the DWP reports is they make a big thing about me making eye contact. It was drilled into me as a kid to always make eye contact when I'm telling the truth. I suppose if I didn't look at them they'd say I was being evasive and shifty. You can't win. They also stated I didn't turn up wearing pyjamas, dressing gown and slippers haha. What the hell? Am I supposed to?

Thanks Duffer's Mum, and everyone else. How is Duffer by the way? And the best of British luck to you too. We'll need it! I'm fully expecting the ATOS assessor to state I cartwheeled into the room and tripped a light fandango while wearing tap shoes and carrying a 50 kg sack of coal.